Giardi: Latest on Judon - Two sides remain "far, far, far apart"

[Real fan 02]

I hope Mayo is learning from this, because contract issues are a fact of life in the NFL. It was really naive of him to bless Judon's initial whining to the press. Next time I hope he says something along the lines of handling private business in private. He needs to stop trying to be the anti-BB and find balance between being friendly with the players and establishing himself as an authority figure.

I'm certain he has. Remember Mayo's had personal relationships with the players on defense especially a leader in judon. I don't believe he's anti- bill. He has enough talking heads in the media already critiquing him.. we need to all just let it play out. Let's judge him from the wins and losses... I definitely understand and respect your opinion. The players have marveled about Mayo's abilities as a coach so far. Even when bill played hard ball with players on contracts I never judged him on that.

 

[Real fan 02]

The fact he kicked judon off the field seems to get lost in translation... Mayo's fine.. contract disputes don't make a coach... let's wait until week 1 to judge his abilities.

 

[Real fan 02]

I've also noticed the extra Mayo nays.

Yes.. those are the Bill die hards... we all appreciate Bill how can we not.. but to some mayo can't cough without being compared to Bill LOL..

 

[Real fan 02]

I've also noticed the extra Mayo nays.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Judon is not massively underpaid. He did have the misfortune of losing a season to injury at a critical time in his career though.

Lol. Yes he is.

 

[Real fan 02]

Lol. Yes he is.

I think we can all agree here on that. I'd love to know what he's been offered as opposed to what he's seeking..

 

[mike_usagisan]

The fact he kicked judon off the field seems to get lost in translation... Mayo's fine.. contract disputes don't make a coach... let's wait until week 1 to judge his abilities.

Right. He's learning on the job. But he shouldn't have gone over there in the first place. I don't think he'll make that mistake again and will do the second part first... keep them out of practice.

But, yeah. He's going to be judged on performance. There's just no games yet, so he's being judged on what we've seen thus far.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I'm certain he has. Remember Mayo's had personal relationships with the players on defense especially a leader in judon. I don't believe he's anti- bill. He has enough talking heads in the media already critiquing him.. we need to all just let it play out. Let's judge him from the wins and losses... I definitely understand and respect your opinion. The players have marveled about Mayo's abilities as a coach so far. Even when bill played hard ball with players on contracts I never judged him on that.

To be clear, my opinion is that Mayo is a rookie HC who has a difficult job replacing a presence like BB on a rebuilding team. Transitioning from being one of the guys to being the boss is a difficult process in any walk of life. The new boss always starts out trying to be the nicest, best boss ever and prove that they are still the same person until the reality pf the role becomes apparent. From the beginning he and Wolf went out of their way to demonstrate that they were different than BB. Some of that was necessary to help turn the page and make the players want to stay here, the mistake was creating expectations that need to be corrected. Mayo going through the bumps and establishing himself as an NFL coach is basically the coaching version of what Maye is going through.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Lol. Yes he is.

The Judon situation is pretty typical when players who are at the last part of the career who are still productive on the field. He is underpaid if you only look at this years salary vs. the multi year contract, including bonuses, etc.. Judon signed a market contract that allowed him to get more money sooner, with some lower salary years at the end. From his perspective it makes good sense to try to maximize his last years in the league, I just wish he was a bit more rational in his approach. Starting with hiring an agent to be the bad guy.

 

[Zuma]

The fact he kicked judon off the field seems to get lost in translation... Mayo's fine.. contract disputes don't make a coach... let's wait until week 1 to judge his abilities.

He went over and kicked his ass outta the club. That was a Gronk-Boss move. Judon left quietly with his tail between his legs.

This has happened since Halas roamed the sidelines…difference is hundreds of recording cell phones in the stands.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The Judon situation is pretty typical when players who are at the last part of the career who are still productive on the field. He is underpaid if you only look at this years salary vs. the multi year contract, including bonuses, etc.. Judon signed a market contract that allowed him to get more money sooner, with some lower salary years at the end. From his perspective it makes good sense to try to maximize his last years in the league, I just wish he was a bit more rational in his approach. Starting with hiring an agent to be the bad guy.

His entire contract was under market at the time he signed. In fact, I’ve been saying for the last few years that his contract is one of the biggest bargains in the NFL and that he was going to notice at some point. It got worse after he outplayed it in his first and second year. He reworked it in 2023 to get more money upfront, but it’s still badly under market which is why he’s upset.

 

[RobertWeathers]

His entire contract was under market at the time he signed. In fact, I’ve been saying for the last few years that his contract is one of the biggest bargains in the NFL and that he was going to notice at some point. It got worse after he outplayed it in his first and second year. He reworked it in 2023 to get more money upfront, but it’s still badly under market which is why he’s upset.

The life of a contract has many twists and turns.

At the end of the day a player is paid based on expected production.

In Year 1, Judon was paid 20m which made him the highest paid DE/OLB based on cash paid. He earned it.

Year 2 he was paid $12m which based on his performance, made him certainly underpaid.

In Year 3 he was overpaid because he only played in 3.5 games and collected $14.2m.

If you are looking purely at prior year performance, because he is pushing 32 and had a soft-tissue injury, Pats are rightfully hedging their bets on shelling out guaranteed money or bonuses.

The question is do you justify the contract based on player performance each year of it's term or over the life of it?

It's clear what teams do.

With that said, they should find a way to add incentives which would get him in the top 5-10 for DE as when healthy, he absolutely performed at that level.

 

[condon84]

I saw what Judon said in that podcast talking about Belichick. As much as I love the player and his productivity, Mayo can't have the best player on that side of the ball undermining him. This can get toxic really fast and for a brand new HC, you have to be aware what this can do to the locker room.

 

[Real fan 02]

He went over and kicked his ass outta the club. That was a Gronk-Boss move. Judon left quietly with his tail between his legs.

This has happened since Halas roamed the sidelines…difference is hundreds of recording cell phones in the stands.

Yes sir! Mayo strikes me a man you don't want to cross or disrespect him. You can tell the players and coaches all respect him. I want judon here like we all do.. but the ship may have already sailed...

 

[Real fan 02]

To be clear, my opinion is that Mayo is a rookie HC who has a difficult job replacing a presence like BB on a rebuilding team. Transitioning from being one of the guys to being the boss is a difficult process in any walk of life. The new boss always starts out trying to be the nicest, best boss ever and prove that they are still the same person until the reality pf the role becomes apparent. From the beginning he and Wolf went out of their way to demonstrate that they were different than BB. Some of that was necessary to help turn the page and make the players want to stay here, the mistake was creating expectations that need to be corrected. Mayo going through the bumps and establishing himself as an NFL coach is basically the coaching version of what Maye is going through.

Oh most definitely. I completely understood your opinion. I wasn't in disagreement at all. I was just simply stating that Mayo's dealing with this situation pretty well. Dismissed him from camp, and told him to stay home. What we know is no one will ever replace Bill or TB12.. and we've seen how's it's been without TB12 the last few seasons.

 

[Real fan 02]

Right. He's learning on the job. But he shouldn't have gone over there in the first place. I don't think he'll make that mistake again and will do the second part first... keep them out of practice.

But, yeah. He's going to be judged on performance. There's just no games yet, so he's being judged on what we've seen thus far.

Yes, understand. That's a fair assessment. The uniqueness here is Mayo's been Judon's position coach and now he's his HC so the relationship is in place. I believe there is enough respect between these two men. Judon I'm sure regrets it. Judon's been a class across his whole time in NE. I won't hold that against him. Maybe it's time he moves on.. we'll miss him but you have to set a boundary as a head coach.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Yes, understand. That's a fair assessment. The uniqueness here is Mayo's been Judon's position coach and now he's his HC so the relationship is in place. I believe there is enough respect between these two men. Judon I'm sure regrets it. Judon's been a class across his whole time in NE. I won't hold that against him. Maybe it's time he moves on.. we'll miss him but you have to set a boundary as a head coach.

Right. I think it's probably as hard for Mayo to become HC in this regard as it is for a lot of people to go from coworker to boss. I think he thought he could rely on that old relationship when he walked over to Judon at practice. But it is different now. Judon knows Mayo's the boss and has a say in his contract. Again, it's just a rookie mistake for Mayo, but it's one rep. The next rep he booted Judon from practice. So, he's learning. That's what I want to see from Mayo.

 

[rkarp1]

I thought Mayo handled the situation perfectly
he told Judon to get off the field and out of uniform if he wasn't practicing, and wear street clothes if he wants to hang around.
if not, don't show up.
Judon walked off with his tail between his legs.
couldn't ask any more from Mayo. he is not the GM. he is not negotiating Judons contract.
Judon can't bring his contract issues to the field, and apparently won't after talking with Mayo.

 

[rkarp1]

I think we can all agree here on that. I'd love to know what he's been offered as opposed to what he's seeking..

an AAV of $20m would put him in that 10-15 rank area for edge players.
most of them are under 30 yrs old.
Mack, Miller and a couple others are over.
if you are willing to get to $20m aav, it could lay out as this years base ($6.5m), + $8m sign bonus ++ incentives ($2m games played/$3m post season awards, sacks, etc)
next season is not guaranteed predicated on Judon getting to said incentives to $15m base and again $5m incentives.
thats an "announced" 2/$40m deal with incentives. the cost to the Pats this year is $8m (spread over 2 seasons) and $5m if Judon is lights out.
I accept that deal if I am the Pats. if Judon is looking for more, I pass and move on from him.

 

[Toofy]

If you look at it judon has been paid 50 million for 2 years and 4 games. Yes injuries happen, but it impacts the team as well.

So if you look at it from that aspect judon has been paid close to 20 million a year and 10 million for an injured year.

Now if I am the pats how much should I increase for a player who was injured and is entering age 30 . Maybe another 2 million guaranteed and add 6 million in performance linked incentives for this year and next 2 years could be a total of 36 million with guarantees which will be linked to availability and performance this year.