For everyone that knows more than JMD

[Triumph]

Shannon Sharpe
Phil Perry
Tom Curran
Rich Eisen
Etc

This is ridiculous.

Jones has thrown 2 NFL passes beyond 20 yards. You told that the Pats are bringing Jones along slowly and designing plays for the future. All of a sudden people are shocked at his arm strength? Based on what?

The Patriots run game has carried Jones 2 weeks in a row.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

This is ridiculous.

Jones has thrown 2 NFL passes beyond 20 yards. You told that the Pats are bringing Jones along slowly and designing plays for the future. All of a sudden people are shocked at his arm strength? Based on what?

The Patriots run game has carried Jones 2 weeks in a row.

Arm strength is overrated. See Montana, Joe.

If the Pats wanted fast bullet passes well that's all Cam could do.

Mac has the best deep ball of any of the rookies. Mac can make all the throws. The fact he threw short so much is clearly because the OLine sucks right now. Wynn, Herron, and Durant are ranked 48th, 49th, and 50th in pass protection right now....

.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Satire?

What's weird is they all watched him before the draft but a few months later they're surprised?? This doesn't make sense.

Him and Burrow lack velocity and have average arm strength for an NFL QB. It's the end of the world and can improve. People never heard of "Baby arm Burrow" ?? He went #1 overall and would be really, really good if he wasn't on arguably the worst team in the league over the last half century.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Trent Dilfer says within 3 years, Matt Barkley will be the starting QB for the Eagles. #PHIPick #ClipAndSave

2:33 PM · Apr 27, 2013

They really need to get rid of his “QBR”.

 

[NFLmac]

2003 playoffs, Colts vs. Chiefs.
Track meet. Almost 900 yards of offense, no punters necessary.

Same day, Patriots beat the Titans 13-10 in sub-zero Gillette (I was there).

All anyone talked about was the excitement of the Colts and Chiefs - the beginning of the end for low-scoring defensive struggles. Personally, I LOVE defensive struggles and hate games where the last team who has the ball will probably win. In the former, every play matters. Make a big turnover and it will haunt you, even if all you lose is field position. In the latter, a pick-six is nothing big, as long as you remain in striking distance - I mean, I was happy when Mahomes hit Hill to take the lead a few years ago on the first play of their last drive, because it left plenty of time for Brady to win the game (he did).

But back on January 10, 2004, all anyone raved about was the Chiefs/Colts game (and thought that the Colts would beat the Patriots, lol).

That's where football has gone. Now add in Fantasy - guys who have Patriot players on their fantasy teams are frustrated when Agholor doesn't catch a touchdown pass, or Jones misses "their" Henry running free down the sideline, regardless of the outcome.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, the agenda on this board is more focused on the past than the present, or certainly the future, and in Boston, the proper way to enjoy sports is to complain.

(I live in LA half the year, and I can tell you, the sports talk is night-and-day different than out here, particularly from the people who call in. Pure, blissful homerism.)

I think I get it now; high scoring/fantasy football shjt. I was at that Titans game as well, and I loved the Pats stifling defense!

 

[Huckleberry1]

Honestly if he turned out to be a pre injury Chad Pennington I would be pretty happy. I saw that comp somewhere at some point and thought it was a solid one. Granted it was a small sample size but that season he won the starting job before Pennington got hurt he looked great. Never had the strongest arm but was smart and tough and made all the throws he needed to.

Pretty much agree. Pennington would be a decent floor.

 

[BigPeteG]

What's weird is they all watched him before the draft but a few months later they're surprised?? This doesn't make sense.

Him and Burrow lack velocity and have average arm strength for an NFL QB. It's the end of the world and can improve. People never heard of "Baby arm Burrow" ?? He went #1 overall and would be really, really good if he wasn't on arguably the worst team in the league over the last half century.

Burrow is a pretty good comparison - so is Pennington.. Burrow is a better overall athlete then Jones - but his arm is not that strong despite his athletic body. He should probably work with a throwing coach..

 

[Pats2000]

This is ridiculous.

Jones has thrown 2 NFL passes beyond 20 yards. You told that the Pats are bringing Jones along slowly and designing plays for the future. All of a sudden people are shocked at his arm strength? Based on what?

The Patriots run game has carried Jones 2 weeks in a row.

You must not even watch the games

 

[venecol]

Brady’s & McDaniels’ relationship isn’t and never was binary; they’re two unique individuals, with different (but closely intersecting) jobs that required a ton of communication and collaboration, in a symbiotic relationship - not a competitive one - working towards a shared goal, and they found tremendous collective success.

Maybe, but in the symbiotic relationship Brady's the shark and Josh is the pilot fish.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Tom Brady did it. Watch his Michigan games, early Pats’ games in 2001 … and then watch him sling it in 2007.

Lower body, core, and technique/throwing mechanics can all increase ball velocity.

I think Mac has enough velocity to win right now, but more wouldn’t hurt.

As @BaconGrundleCandy points out, there’s more to it than just arm motion and zip. The key is footwork, lower body strength, etc. Some guys can backpedal or throw while standing still and have that velocity. Others need to step into passes, and it’s all about balance and leverage. Brady is a master of leverage…it took him some time to develop it, though I also think his arm strength was dogged - for no logical reason - coming out of college.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Maybe, but in the symbiotic relationship Brady's the shark and Josh is the pilot fish.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Arm strength is overrated. See Montana, Joe.

Another guy with tremendous footwork.

 

[Pats2000]

As @BaconGrundleCandy points out, there’s more to it than just arm motion and zip. The key is footwork, lower body strength, etc. Some guys can backpedal or throw while standing still and have that velocity. Others need to step into passes, and it’s all about balance and leverage. Brady is a master of leverage…it took him some time to develop it, though I also think his arm strength was dogged - for no logical reason - coming out of college.

Brady used to throw with mostly arm. By 2006, he was getting major tendinitis in his elbow. That's what drove him to relearn his throwing motion. Mac already seems to be using leverage in his body to throw the ball. That's probably why they dog his arm strength, because he tries to throw with leverage, vs. These other guys. He def can't sling it 50 yards on a fade. But between preseason and his 2 games, I've seen him make pretty much all the NFL throws, with the right touch and velocity

 

[venecol]

I've heard a lot of people before the draft comparing Jones, not to Brady, but to Drew Brees. If we get a young Brees out of this guy we could be in Superbowl contention within the next 3 years or so.

LMFAO

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Burrow is a pretty good comparison - so is Pennington.. Burrow is a better overall athlete then Jones - but his arm is not that strong despite his athletic body. He should probably work with a throwing coach..

Yea I'd say Jones actually has a better arm but their comparable. Similar except Burrow is better when things break down / pocket presence imo.

(And just so people don't flip out I'll say something nice about Mac now - he has better route anticipation and throws a better deep ball. Now breathe)

I think Mac has some untapped potential if he tightens up his mechanics and certainly when he tightens up his body. And again I'll keep saying he landed in the best spot possible.

Herbert is a good example of natural arm strength / velocity. Sometimes your mechanics, platform etc won't be perfect and just have to let it go.

Dude has been incredible. Such a nice kid too.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Yea I'd say Jones actually has a better arm but their comparable. Similar except Burrow is better when things break down / pocket presence imo.

(And just so people don't flip out I'll say something nice about Mac now - he has better route anticipation and throws a better deep ball. Now breathe)

I think Mac has some untapped potential if he tightens up his mechanics and certainly when he tightens up his body. And again I'll keep saying he landed in the best spot possible.

Herbert is a good example of natural arm strength / velocity. Sometimes your mechanics, platform etc won't be perfect and just have to let it go.

Dude has been incredible. Such a nice kid too.

Herbert is so hard not to root for.

The magic and mystery of Los Angeles Chargers quarterback Justin Herbert

The star's quiet nature has long led to questions about his ability to helm a professional offense. With a breakout rookie season, he put those questions to rest and brought new excitement to his franchise.

www.espn.com

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

But BGC doesn't this go back to the draft being inexact? You value certain things in a qb differently than others do. If Brady was coming out now you wouldn't rate him highly at all.

Certainly but with respect I don't think you have any idea how I grade prospects? Saying I wouldn't rate Brady high is kind of ignorant considering that?

I don't distinguish between athletic QB's or strict pocket passers. I don't say "this guy can run so he gets extra points" .. I actually take most (80-85%) of my opinion out of the process. I'll have high grades on guys I don't really like personally and vice versa. I change and tinker with the times but I don't "rank" or look at it like that.

I obviously have no problem talking draft stuff but I wish people would come correct. Again saying I wouldn't rate Brady high - assuming bc he's a classic pocket passer? Is kind of weak without looking at my grades or knowing how I go at it.

Even though we now know he will become the greatest ever. Jones was dismissed for 3 reasons. He is not an athletic speciman. He is not a running qb. He played at Alabama with an amazing line and amazing receivers. In many draftnics minds those negatives outweighed the fact that last year he won the national championship, he had arguably the best college season ever had by a quarterback, and he was known to be incredibly smart and hard working, with great touch, but not a plus arm.

Most serious evaluators don't look at like this lol

No one thinks "this QB can't run so he's garbage" You factor in supporting cast but you're isolating a prospect on his mechanics both lower and upper, physique, age, accuracy in a clean & dirty pocket, what's he asked to do vs what he can do, how does he look attempting this pass against this defense.

Teams don't dismiss guys who can't "run" it just doesn't work like that. See Rosen, Jones, Haskins and others. If teams or scouts think you can play you're getting a good grade and drafted high.

Again most serious people are objective about this. I don't grade Lamar Jackson any different than Mac Jones. I care more about being right than giving my opinion. I'm very much a results > journey kind of scout.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Is McDaniels a great coordinator or was he simply a product of Brady?

I'm stating the obvious here: McDaniels needed Brady more than Brady needed him.

MacDaniels went 11-5 with Matt Cassell, who hadn’t played football since high school.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I still can’t believe Belichick cut Micheal Bishop and kept Brady. Bishop had a cannon, and he was so athletic. Belichick is such an idiot.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Patriots offense has been bad from Oct'2019 through now Sept 23'21. And Denver 2009-2010 was bad as was St Louis 2011.

It's more than obvious Thomas Brady carried skippy on his back for 15 years. McDaniels has done zilch without Thomas the 3rd.