****** First exhibition game postgame thread ******

[Deus Irae]

This is the type of pass where arm strength matters. If you don’t have it, this is probably an INT.

Yeah, this type of pass (super tight window), and the deep out, are where arm strength really matters. In this shot, you can see that the QB couldn't have gotten away with a balloon, because the DB would have been there for the breakup or pick. So, in this case, the ball had to be placed almost perfectly if it was going to be completed, because it had to have the right speed to make the fit left/right, and also had to be thrown high enough that the underneath coverage couldn't get in on his jump, without being thrown so high that the WR couldn't get to it.

Or, to put it another way, this really needed to be a frozen rope sort of pass.

 

[DaBruinz]

Medicore to subpar - That would describe the Pats WR's in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2010 - 2011 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 2018, 2020. -

No Mac isn't looking at Smith or Waddle, but Agular had as much success on long throws as anyone in the league last season. Bourne was VERY highly thought of with the Niners, and Myers Harry and Gunner look very much likle the bulk of the WR's who played during the most successful 20 year run in NFL history.

I find it hard to believe that the supposed smartest fan base in the league still believes that WR's win Superbowls when for so many years they had a ringside seat of 6 of them where they DIDN'T
That being said, I think that Cam looked improved to me. and with that improvement and the rest of the overall talent on this team, they can win 10 or 11 games with Cam as the QB.

I LIKED what I have seen so far from Jones. In fact the 2 passes that impressed me the most were his down field strikes to Wilkerson and Gunner. I wish they had run some deep incuts and or seam routes for him. The pass that pissed me off was the 3rd and 7 that he threw a 4 yd in cut to a covered man who had NO chance to get a first down. That throw made no sense.

I thought he had great presence at the LOS but I didn't think he was particularly accurate with his receivers having to make good catches on a few balls that weren't exactly on target

I do agree with the general premise that a SUPER STAR wide receiver is not the key to winning the SB. However, A clutch RECEIVER (be it WR/TE/RB) IS paramount to winning the big one. We saw that with Branch in 2003, Gronk in 2014 and Edelman/White in 2016.

With THIS offense, your top 6 receivers (WR/TE/RB) are going to be Smith, Henry, Agholor, Meyers, Bourne, and White. They should account for at least 3500 yards of receiving IF they are used properly. It's unlikely that the Pats will have a 1000 yard receiver, but having 3-4 receivers in the 700-800 yard receiving range would be awesome. Add that to a running game that should put up 1600+ yards on the season and this will be a very dynamic offense that teams will be hard pressed to control.

 

[Pats2000]

Personally, I think that 40-yard lob pass is one of the worst ways to judge Mac’s arm strength. Any college QB can lob a rainbow pass down the sideline like that. It was a nice throw, but those passes are often more about the receiver, the coverage, including incidental contact, and even the luck involved in that .01 window when things like the wind come into play. Bottom line is: it just isn’t the type of pass/result that’s often replicated exactly as before because of the randomness. I think the longer the ball is in the air, the less it has to do with the quarterback and the more it has to do with luck and external factors.

I believe Brady led the league on deep passes last year, which makes sense because it’s about the WRs more than anything…but he was still in the 40% range. That’s the thing…these are all kind of random lobs.

The first throw to Jakobi, which was a catch though ruled incomplete, was not a great pass and that’s exactly the type of arm strength that’s critical…the ball didn’t carry quite far enough. But it was still close enough for him to make a great catch and that may have more to do with mechanics/timing, etc.

This is the type of pass where arm strength matters. If you don’t have it, this is probably an INT.

You mean like this throw 50 seconds in

 

[Guts]

I know TB12 is an outlier but curious to know how did he look like in his preseason debut back then? I was only 9 at the time just wanted to see if there's any comparison with Mac

 

[sb1]

Personally, I think that 40-yard lob pass is one of the worst ways to judge Mac’s arm strength. Any college QB can lob a rainbow pass down the sideline like that. It was a nice throw, but those passes are often more about the receiver, the coverage, including incidental contact, and even the luck involved in that .01 window when things like the wind come into play. Bottom line is: it just isn’t the type of pass/result that’s often replicated exactly as before because of the randomness. I think the longer the ball is in the air, the less it has to do with the quarterback and the more it has to do with luck and external factors.

I believe Brady led the league on deep passes last year, which makes sense because it’s about the WRs more than anything…but he was still in the 40% range. That’s the thing…these are all kind of random lobs.

The first throw to Jakobi, which was a catch though ruled incomplete, was not a great pass and that’s exactly the type of arm strength that’s critical…the ball didn’t carry quite far enough. But it was still close enough for him to make a great catch and that may have more to do with mechanics/timing, etc.

This is the type of pass where arm strength matters. If you don’t have it, this is probably an INT.

Throws like this are my go-to when people diss Brady's arm strength. A weak arm QB has no shot to complete this.

 

[DaBruinz]

This is my main fear w argument for starting Mac right away, that he isn’t built for it yet, gets injured, and has a Luck-type career as a result.
i still like the thought of picking a starter on Monday based on the pass vs run liability of the next opponent. Then Mac gets full-game experience when starting but also multi bye weeks in season to weight workout.

Hopefully, Mac has already been doing what the Pats asked of him nutrition / muscle building wise. And, Hopefully, Mac has seen the Brady video where Brady talks about how he changed his mindset on taking hits.. I believe Brady said after his ACL tear that, up until then, he'd tense up just before a hit.. And that it was the worst thing one could do. That he learned to NOT tense up similar to how they do in some martial arts (Judo/Akido). He did this and the plyometrics to help with his flexibility. And it seems to have helped him avoid a major injury since that ACL.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You mean like this throw 50 seconds in

Yes…that type of throw…though he really had a lot of space to step into it. If he can make that type of throw under normal conditions, he easily has the arm strength.

 

[sb1]

I know TB12 is an outlier but curious to know how did he look like in his preseason debut back then? I was only 9 at the time just wanted to see if there's any comparison with Mac

Hall of Fame Game rewind: A look back at Tom Brady’s NFL debut in 2000 (usatoday.com)

 

[DaBruinz]

Cam should have had more than 8 TD passing last season. Edelman missed practically the entire season, but when Edelman was in, had a career high in receiving with Cam as QB, not Brady, despite being with Brady for a decade, and Cam, only months.

Last season Cam had no TE's too .. and no off-season, or pre-season .. get that woulda, shoulda, coulda out of here.

So, it was a lack of talent at WR and TE that caused Cam to throw the ball into he ground when he had open receivers?
It was lack of talent at WR and TE that caused Cam's inability to connect with wide open RBs on a regular basis? Particularly James White?

Cam's completion percentage was as high as it was BECAUSE of his receivers. Not despite them. Cam was off-target so much and his receivers bailed him out regularly.

 

[scott99]

I'll snag one once NIKE no longer has the contract..

That’s a weird comment.

 

[Pats2000]

Yes…that type of throw…though he really had a lot of space to step into it. Of he can make that type of throw under normal conditions, he easily has the arm strength.

Brady isn't the best at throwing off platform either. He loses a lot when he can't step into it. Brady's arm strength comes from leveraging the torque from the rest of his body.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Brady isn't the best at throwing off platform either. He loses a lot when he can't step into it. Brady's arm strength comes from leveraging the torque from the rest of his body.

Agree. That‘s where the footwork and pocket movement comes in.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Brady isn't the best at throwing off platform either. He loses a lot when he can't step into it. Brady's arm strength comes from leveraging the torque from the rest of his body.

And that’s kind of, in a nutshell, what I think about arm strength. It has much more to do with body balance and leverage than “arm strength.” On a radar gun, the difference between Patrick Mahomes and Andy Dalton isn’t very much.

 

[Pats2000]

Agree. That‘s where the footwork and pocket movement comes in.

That's why I think Mac will be good. He already has good mechanics for the most part, sees the game at a high level and has one of the best deep balls of the QBs in the draft

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

That's why I think Mac will be good. He already has good mechanics for the most part, sees the game at a high level and has one of the best deep balls of the QBs in the draft

Hope so. I’m not a college football guy myself. I’m just going off what I see at the pro level and very limited reps.

 

[scott99]

That's why I think Mac will be good. He already has good mechanics for the most part, sees the game at a high level and has one of the best deep balls of the QBs in the draft

He’s mechanically sound. Great throwing motion too. Add in his intelligence and accuracy, it was a perfect pick for the Pats offense. Not saying he won’t bust (I don’t think he will), just saying he was a perfect fit for what the Pat’s offense does. I think he has the potential to be top 15 as his floor, top 10 as his ceiling. Wouldn’t shock me, by the end of his career, maybe even higher than top 10. It’s all up to him. And I feel he’s extremely driven to be great, so we shall see.

 

[NormZauchin]

Yes…that type of throw…though he really had a lot of space to step into it. Of he can make that type of throw under normal conditions, he easily has the arm strength.

Can the Pats trade Harry for Smith or Waddle?

 

[scott99]

Hope so. I’m not a college football guy myself. I’m just going off what I see at the pro level and very limited reps.

I watch a lot of college ball. There have been MANY a college QB whose success hasn’t translated to the NFL. Hell Tommy Hodson was a good college QB, you old timers remember him well, he’s a tiny footnote in Patriot’s history.

Jones is one of those guys who I think will be a good NFL QB and his college success should translate to the NFL.

 

[Joker]

That’s a weird comment.

No...it is not. Try "What Does Freedom Of Expression Mean?" when you get around to it.

 

[Ring 6]

You mean like this throw 50 seconds in

Yup