Eli Manning benched

[Bruins29]

Eli committed fraud by passing off new equipment as game used and defrauding hard working Americans of their money.

 

[moejr]

And I still see a ton of people arguing that Eli Manning is a HOFer because of those two SB runs...

Ugh those 2 losses make me puke. We handed him those 2 on a silver platter.

 

[TruthSeeker]

It amazes me how much pats fans hate Eli. That’s how bitter y’all are. This guy missed 1 start since he became the starter and that’s because he got scapegoated.

Eli was never the guy that was going to carry a team. Ben, Tom, brees, and Peyton rarely I’d ever had a bad offensive line. Eli’s been dealing it with it for years. Coughlin and co got the most out of their lines.

Eli is absolutely a hall of famer

So, here's what I hear you (and others) saying on the positive side:

• Eli was an ironman QB for years
• he played behind a poor offensive line
• he was the starting QB on his team winning 2 Super Bowls with many games being on the road
• he was named MVP of those Super Bowls

I've also heard these as reasons he should/will get in:

• he played in (actually for) New York
• he's a Manning

On the negative side:

• he never was an All Pro of any kind
• he made 4 Pro Bowls (which are ridiculously easy to make) over 16 years.
• he was never a top 5 QB in the NFL in any given year. In fact, it can be argued that he was never close to a top 5 QB in the NFL in any year
• he never won a playoff game outside of the 2 Super Bowl years (that's 2 years of advancing beyond the first round in 15+ years as a starter)
• his defense carried the team in both Super Bowl runs and was significantly more responsible for the wins than the offense
• he has a .500 career record
• he has no significant statistical accomplishments to speak of other than perhaps longevity stats

Other:

• those who don't believe he should be in the Hall of Fame are haters

Here are his (traditional) standings compared with his quarterback peers based on QB rating (i.e. not QBR which includes running stats which would negatively impact Eli):

2004 34 (of 34) - didn't officially qualify based on volume stats but his rookie year was awful
2005 23
2006 18
2007 25
2008 15
2009 11
2010 17
2011 7
2012 14
2013 35 (of 37)
2014 15
2015 13
2016 22
2017 25
2018 21
2019 25 (2 games)

1 year out of 16 he cracked the top 10 in passing stats.
7 years out of 16 he was in the middle (11 -> 20)
8 years out of 16 he was towards the bottom (21+)

This is your "Hall of Fame" QB.

So the question is, what should the criteria be? If Wes Welker made the catch or the refs called holding or the ball isn't miraculously caught on the helmet or if ball is intercepted by Asante Samuel or the Giants defense doesn't hold the Patriots to under half of what their average points were, are we even having this discussion? I really doubt that just 1 Super Bowl would have made this a serious consideration given all decent QBs over the years who have won just 1.

This isn't the Hall of very good. These are (or should be) excellant players. Not above average players (which I'll give to Eli despite the stats) who caught a few breaks and played well in a few streaks meanwhile accomplishing literally nothing the rest of their careers.

I repeat, it would be a joke if Eli Manning made the Hall of Fame. Not because I'm a hater. But rather because he accomplished so little individually as a QB. He was NEVER a great QB and shouldn't be treated as one. You agree he didn't elevate those around him. Shouldn't that be a *requirement* of a HOF player? I'd say so. Not even once a top 5 QB in the NFL! This is not the criteria we should set for the Hall of Fame. Period.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Good post and I agree with it, unfortunately, you and I both know he is a lock and that’s what bothers me.

I know he is a lock because he is A Manning and because everyone loves the fact he beat the Patriots twice. Other than that he is a journey man, and not a very good one to be honest. He was shown blind loyalty by NY and I’m ok with that. Sometimes thats a good thing. It explains how he was able to keep his job the last 8 years because there are a lot of teams that would of moved much sooner.

 

[Ring 6]

So, here's what I hear you (and others) saying on the positive side:

• Eli was an ironman QB for years
• he played behind a poor offensive line
• he was the starting QB on his team winning 2 Super Bowls with many games being on the road
• he was named MVP of those Super Bowls

I've also heard these as reasons he should/will get in:

• he played in (actually for) New York
• he's a Manning

On the negative side:

• he never was an All Pro of any kind
• he made 4 Pro Bowls (which are ridiculously easy to make) over 16 years.
• he was never a top 5 QB in the NFL in any given year. In fact, it can be argued that he was never close to a top 5 QB in the NFL in any year
• he never won a playoff game outside of the 2 Super Bowl years (that's 2 years of advancing beyond the first round in 15+ years as a starter)
• his defense carried the team in both Super Bowl runs and was significantly more responsible for the wins than the offense
• he has a .500 career record
• he has no significant statistical accomplishments to speak of other than perhaps longevity stats

Other:

• those who don't believe he should be in the Hall of Fame are haters

Here are his (traditional) standings compared with his quarterback peers based on QB rating (i.e. not QBR which includes running stats which would negatively impact Eli):

2004 34 (of 34) - didn't officially qualify based on volume stats but his rookie year was awful
2005 23
2006 18
2007 25
2008 15
2009 11
2010 17
2011 7
2012 14
2013 35 (of 37)
2014 15
2015 13
2016 22
2017 25
2018 21
2019 25 (2 games)

1 year out of 16 he cracked the top 10 in passing stats.
7 years out of 16 he was in the middle (11 -> 20)
8 years out of 16 he was towards the bottom (21+)

This is your "Hall of Fame" QB.

So the question is, what should the criteria be? If Wes Welker made the catch or the refs called holding or the ball isn't miraculously caught on the helmet or if ball is intercepted by Asante Samuel or the Giants defense doesn't hold the Patriots to under half of what their average points were, are we even having this discussion? I really doubt that just 1 Super Bowl would have made this a serious consideration given all decent QBs over the years who have won just 1.

This isn't the Hall of very good. These are (or should be) excellant players. Not above average players (which I'll give to Eli despite the stats) who caught a few breaks and played well in a few streaks meanwhile accomplishing literally nothing the rest of their careers.

I repeat, it would be a joke if Eli Manning made the Hall of Fame. Not because I'm a hater. But rather because he accomplished so little individually as a QB. He was NEVER a great QB and shouldn't be treated as one. You agree he didn't elevate those around him. Shouldn't that be a *requirement* of a HOF player? I'd say so. Not even once a top 5 QB in the NFL! This is not the criteria we should set for the Hall of Fame. Period.

Completely agree but have one nit to pick.
QB rating sucks as a way to judge QBs.
It’s a way to approximately compare QBs based upon limited data and a very questionable arbitrary formula.
But, if you did break down more useful metrics in this case the results wouldn’t be very different.

He was a completely average QB who hung around for a long time and twice in a long career caught lightning in a bottle and his team won championships. He wasn’t the impetus for the championships but he certainly did his part in those post seasons.

If Jim plunkett isn’t in Eli Manning doesn’t belong.

He will win popularity points though.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Eli will get in because of the NY Giant Legacy / Mara family.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

Bias aside (trying to), year too late here. Statistically awful or at best, average for years. Decent in 2015, but dudes been a dog with one hell of a WR.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Looks like we'll face a really good Daniel Jones in a few weeks. He was great today, although a lot of his receivers were wide open. Saqaon Barkely probably wo't play as he was seen in a walking boot after the game today.

 

[Ring 6]

Looks like we'll face a really good Daniel Jones in a few weeks. He was great today, although a lot of his receivers were wide open. Saquaon Barkely probably own't play as he was seen in a walking boot after the game today.

He was playing the bucs.

 

[Clonamery]

Looks like we'll face a really good Daniel Jones in a few weeks. He was great today, although a lot of his receivers were wide open. Saqaon Barkely probably wo't play as he was seen in a walking boot after the game today.

Just because Jones got the results Manning could not does mean Jones is "really good." He was facing an undisciplined defense.

 

[Doctor DDS]

Another blow to the Eli legacy. Rookie QB leads Giants to largest comeback in 49 years and their first win of the season.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Just because Jones got the results Manning could not does mean Jones is "really good." He was facing an undisciplined defense.

He's been good all summer and played sensational today. The fact we were playing crap teams through 3 games does not mean our defense is overrated either. It's actually good.

 

[Boomer B]

Eli will get in because of the NY Giant Legacy / Mara family.

You forgot what his last name is also

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Jones made plays with his arms and legs.

Eli is cooked! Stick a fork in him.

Eli’s nephew arch manning is probably a better QBs than him at this point in time.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Just because Jones got the results Manning could not does mean Jones is "really good." He was facing an undisciplined defense.

People don’t realize how low the bar is with Eli’s play the last few years. He makes everyone on the offense worse. I picked the Giants in my underdog pool today because I figured they aren’t that bad as a team...it’s Eli holding them back.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Jones will be a handful. Glad the game is at home.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

People don’t realize how low the bar is with Eli’s play the last few years. He makes everyone on the offense worse. I picked the Giants in my underdog pool today because I figured they aren’t that bad as a team...it’s Eli holding them back.

It’s not just how bad Eli was. From what I’ve see this Jones kid can make throws. His TD to Shephard was impressive.

 

[varjao]

Eli would never win this game. That's the exact type of game that makes Giants fans excited, against a bad team, etc, turning point game, Eli goes there and does nothing, can't create nothing.

Too soon for Giants fans to celebrate but it's certainly over for Eli. At this point you develop the QB you spend a #6th overall in even if he struggles.

 

[captain stone]

Bruce Arians, his QB, and the entire Tampa organization are clown cars, and damn them to hell for allowing the disgusting, rancid Vagiants & their Goober Jr QB to over-take them for the win. Now the other New Jersey swamp franchise thinks they're somebody...Jason Light should've been FIRED the microsecond yet another drafted Place-Kicker missed another easy FG.

 

[Deus Irae]

Eli would never win this game. That's the exact type of game that makes Giants fans excited, against a bad team, etc, turning point game, Eli goes there and does nothing, can't create nothing.

Too soon for Giants fans to celebrate but it's certainly over for Eli. At this point you develop the QB you spend a #6th overall in even if he struggles.

The Giants did not win because of Daniel Jones. The Giants won because the Bucs pissed the game away. The biggest difference between Eli and Jones, besides Jones playing against the weakest defense the Giants have seen this year, and besides the Bucs not having video on Jones in order to design their defense against him, is that Eli wasn't gifted a Winston pick or a GWFGA miss.