Ed Reed released by Texans ... signs with Jets

[manxman2601]

Reed was a starter on a pretty good defense and was cut because of the surprisingly quick development of a rookie coupled with the fact that he bad mouthed the coaching staff. You yourself have made this point. So yeah, for depth purposes, saying that Reed is likely to be a better option than Harmon going forward isn't a reach.

Reed had 150 more snaps than Harmon on the season in which he achieved 0 interceptions, 0 passes defended and was making 2 tackles a game. I'm not sure that just being on the field qualifies him as offering more.

I thought that's where you were going to go with it, personally. The INT's were the #1 thing people were harping on with Wilson last season.

Why would you have thought that. I spend most of my time in the draft forum, as you know,. Isn't it more likely that when I said that I like Harmon because I've watched him (the "my eyes" reply) that I'm looking at more than interceptions. Anyway. Nevermind. I accept your apology

Thing is, outside of the first game against the Jets in week two, the team hasn't really let him use his range. He's mostly been sitting back in a Cover-1 or Cover-2 shell and playing almost exclusively zone from what I've seen. Granted, I don't have the All-22, so I may be mistaken.

He plays the McCourty role basically sitting in centerfield and using his range to help out on the deeper receiver. McCourty is better at it naturally and offers more versatility right now but Harmon is, as I've repeatedly said from the time we drafted him, a McCourty backup for that deep lying role.

 

[Rob0729]

Pretty much this. To me, the question was not whether Reed could replace McCourty of Gregory, because he's clearly not up to snuff at the moment. To me, the question were whether Reed could replace Harmon or Wilson by the time the playoffs came around, and whether there would likely be improvement in the hip by then. Anything else would be gravy.

Or, to put it another way....

Within the time frame of this season, any moves that keep a Bequette or a Wilson off the field (non-ST) are likely to be good moves.

At this point, I don't know if anyone can tell if he could replace Harmon at this point. Harmon may or may not have proven himself as a solid back up (depending on who you talk to), but I am not convinced that Reed can do that either.

Reed was awful for the Texans. Could have been a poor fit or it could be that he is just done and a player who just can't come to terms with the fact his career is over or somewhere in between. I wasn't all that impressed with him last year and the Ravens' defense is a perfect fit for him where he could freelance (which Belichick wouldn't let him do here).

 

[RobAllan]

It's very hard to tell as an outsider what REALLY goes on. I thought Reed would be a great depth signing, particularly at the price. However, I wonder about a couple things:

1. After BB consummated his last love-affair with Ochocinco and found the marriage to be lacking, would an experience like that cause him to hesitate to pull the trigger on a second wife for the D? Ochocinco had enviable skill, but ultimately wasn't a good fit AT ALL for what the team does. I tend to think it's the same with Reed. (Although our defense has evolved into having a Devin McCourty that stalks the field a bit, he's still not quite the freelancer Reed has been at times.)

2. Despite what appears to be endless mutual respect, does one or both of them really not like the other? To some degree, talking with the media is a game for these guys. And Reed just paid the ultimate price for forgetting that recently and rocking an "outcoached" take. Maybe he doesn't like the Pats and/or us (the fanbase.)

3. Reed is basically a rental for a whopping half a season. Maybe it's not worth giving a player with those football smarts an insight into how our "D" runs when that player will likely play for a division rival the following season anyway. (Wasn't he always going to end up a Jet at some point, really?) BB has never been above gamesmanship.

Ultimately, I don't know why or even IF we passed on him. But I'm not at all crestfallen about this. As cool as it'd be to have him, we are talking about an older player with diminished skills and an attitude problem brewing. There's enough red flags to take the pass even though it seems like an obvious signing in some respects. I really was more hopeful for Jason Taylor a few years back than I was for Reed this time around.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yes they were gifts by Harmons 2 int's are still two more than Reed has this year.

For God's sake, this guy...



could have caught those two INT's. Harmon was playing in a deep cover 2 shell, floating toward the sideline, and the receiver in front ran the wrong route forcing the QB to throw the ball right at him. Those were both easier than a punt return.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Nate Ebner's breakout year!

 

[Deus Irae]

At this point, I don't know if anyone can tell if he could replace Harmon at this point. Harmon may or may not have proven himself as a solid back up (depending on who you talk to), but I am not convinced that Reed can do that either.

Reed was awful for the Texans. Could have been a poor fit or it could be that he is just done and a player who just can't come to terms with the fact his career is over or somewhere in between. I wasn't all that impressed with him last year and the Ravens' defense is a perfect fit for him where he could freelance (which Belichick wouldn't let him do here).

Well, we're going to find out, as he'll be in the AFCE. I'd have preferred finding out with him on the team. Of course, I'd have much preferred it be a non-issue because the Patriots had drafted Swearinger in the second round, but BB wanted to draft a DE/LB who, as a rookie, can't stop the run and can't cover, so we get to watch Collins, instead.

 

[Rob0729]

FWIW, Ed Reed has said the Pats were interested, but he chose the Jets because he knew the system.

Seth Walder ?@SethWalderNYDN
Patriots also were interested in Reed he said. But he knew the system with Gang Green. #nyj

I think from a playing time and knowing the system standpoint, Reed made the right decision.

 

[Kontradiction]

Reed had 150 more snaps than Harmon on the season in which he achieved 0 interceptions, 0 passes defended and was making 2 tackles a game. I'm not sure that just being on the field qualifies him as offering more.

Reed himself said that quarterbacks a lot of times still weren't throwing his way.

He plays the McCourty role basically sitting in centerfield and using his range to help out on the deeper receiver. McCourty is better at it naturally and offers more versatility right now but Harmon is, as I've repeatedly said from the time we drafted him, a McCourty backup for that deep lying role.

From what I've seen when the Pats have rotated into a Cover 1 shell with him on the field, it's been McCourty roaming and showcasing his range while Harmon mostly either stays at centerfield or floats toward the sideline. He hasn't really had a chance to show his range too much outside of Week 2 against the Jets which, ironically, I thought was his best game in the limited amount of snaps he saw and in spite of some of the mental errors he made. Hopefully we'll get to see more of his range this weekend as his snap count no doubt increases with Gregory gone.

 

[PatriotsInGA]

For God's sake, this guy...



could have caught those two INT's. Harmon was playing in a deep cover 2 shell, floating toward the sideline, and the receiver in front ran the wrong route forcing the QB to throw the ball right at him. Those were both easier than a punt return.

Welker and Asante say otherwise :bricks:

 

[Kontradiction]

Welker and Asante say otherwise :bricks:

Thanks for that reminder.

 

[Rob0729]

Well, we're going to find out, as he'll be in the AFCE. I'd have preferred finding out with him on the team. Of course, I'd have much preferred it be a non-issue because the Patriots had drafted Swearinger in the second round, but BB wanted to draft a DE/LB who, as a rookie, can't stop the run and can't cover, so we get to watch Collins, instead.

I still think if his name was Ed Smith, no one would care where we find out if he has anything left. His reputation is better than his production for years. He might prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

As for the draft, I still have no problem with drafting Collins at this point. Collins came in here as a project with elite physical skills but very raw. It wasn't expect for him to make a huge impact his rookie season. His upside potential is amazing though. But as I always say, potential doesn't mean much until it is met.

As for the safety position, I really haven't seem much of a problem with that position this year. Both McCourty and Gregory have been solid. Harmon has been decent coming off the bench (not really making a lot of big plays, but not getting burnt all that much either). Gregory could be back for the Broncos' game (I think it is safe to assume he will miss Monday's game). I don't know if a safety is much of a priority.

 

[manxman2601]

I still think if his name was Ed Smith, no one would care where we find out if he has anything left. His reputation is better than his production for years. He might prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

As for the draft, I still have no problem with drafting Collins at this point. Collins came in here as a project with elite physical skills but very raw. It wasn't expect for him to make a huge impact his rookie season. His upside potential is amazing though. But as I always say, potential doesn't mean much until it is met.

As for the safety position, I really haven't seem much of a problem with that position this year. Both McCourty and Gregory have been solid. Harmon has been decent coming off the bench (not really making a lot of big plays, but not getting burnt all that much either). Gregory could be back for the Broncos' game (I think it is safe to assume he will miss Monday's game). I don't know if a safety is much of a priority.

To be fair, Ed Reed's reputation is in part that he is one of the greatest in the history of the NFL at anticipating the ball and recognising defences. It's that that appeals to people and those are skills that don't get dulled by age.

 

[PATRlOT]

LOL he signed with the Jets.

This will definitely be a blemish on his great career. What a shame.

If anything this just proves he can't even think straight anymore.

 

[Deus Irae]

I still think if his name was Ed Smith, no one would care where we find out if he has anything left. His reputation is better than his production for years. He might prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

He's not Ed Smith. He's Ed Reed, coming off of surgery. What you're basically saying is that, if the scenario was completely different, people would have a different opinion. While that's doubtless correct, it's also competely irrelevant.

As for the draft, I still have no problem with drafting Collins at this point. Collins came in here as a project with elite physical skills but very raw. It wasn't expect for him to make a huge impact his rookie season. His upside potential is amazing though. But as I always say, potential doesn't mean much until it is met.

It was a huge screw up. I've been over it before, though, so there's no sense derailing this thread over it. My only point in bringing it up was to note that, had the position been dealt with properly in the draft, the "Ed Reed" situation we just had would never have come up.

As for the safety position, I really haven't seem much of a problem with that position this year. Both McCourty and Gregory have been solid. Harmon has been decent coming off the bench (not really making a lot of big plays, but not getting burnt all that much either). Gregory could be back for the Broncos' game (I think it is safe to assume he will miss Monday's game). I don't know if a safety is much of a priority.

In terms of actual, on the field, production to date, they are 2 deep at safety, and one (Gregory) is looking a whole lot better than he is because he's being protected by the rest of the secondary (Gregory is playing better now that his role has been limited and tailored to what he can do, which can be done because the other 3 in the secondary are playing well enough to allow for it). I see that as a problem. You apparently don't. We disagree once again. That won't exactly shock the world.

At least we can agree that we both hope Harmon shows that he's at least a capable fill in for Gregory.

 

[Rob0729]

He's not Ed Smith. He's Ed Reed, coming off of surgery. What you're basically saying is that, if the scenario was completely different, people would have a different opinion. While that's doubtless correct, it's also competely irrelevant.

He is Ed Reed coming off of surgery and coming off a year last year where he was average at best. He is also Ed Reed who looked like hot garbage all year. People think because he is

It was a huge screw up. I've been over it before, though, so there's no sense derailing this thread over it. My only point in bringing it up was to note that, had the position been dealt with properly in the draft, the "Ed Reed" situation we just had would never have come up.

So if after a year in the system, Collins becomes a perennial Pro Bowler, it is a huge screw up? This is turning into your MO lately. You declare the Pats screwed up on moves before you even let them play out. We won't know if drafting Collins was a bad move or not for a year or two. To declare any draft pick a "huge screw up" halfway into his first season is ridiculous.

In terms of actual, on the field, production to date, they are 2 deep at safety, and one (Gregory) is looking a whole lot better than he is because he's being protected by the rest of the secondary. I see that as a problem. You apparently don't. We disagree once again. That won't exactly shock the world.

Gregory has been playing close to the line a lot more than you are letting on and he has been a playmaker this year. I would argue since Mayo went down, Gregory has been a pretty decent factor in covering up a lot of deficiencies in the LBing corp without Mayo. Gregory has been an asset this year and not a liability.

BTW, if Gregory sucks as bad as he does and the rest of the secondary is covering up his deficiencies, who cares who lines up next to McCourty? They can cover up for that guy too.

At least we can agree that we both hope Harmon shows that he's at least a capable fill in for Gregory.

The way Gregory has been playing, I am not expecting that Harmon can live up to that level. But I think with Talib back and Arrington moving inside, they can hide some of his deficiencies.

Either way, we are talking about replacing Gregory with a washed up (or at least appears to be), injury prone safety or a young inexperienced safety who hasn't proven himself.

 

[ausbacker]

I woke up to this news and laughed. Reed should have retired a Raven like Ray.

 

[Rob0729]

I woke up to this news and laughed. Reed should have retired a Raven like Ray.

He got $6 million for 7 games with the Texans. I think he was smart to come back.

He should have retired after the Texans released him too. He seems pretty convinced that his struggles were the Texans' fault for not using him correctly rather than his skills though. He might be one of those delusional former superstars who cannot accept the game passed him bye.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Hey guys, here's a great article on duron harmon.

Leftover Observations: Patriots Rookie Safety Duron Harmon vs. Steelers | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2014 NFL Draft

It's only 1 game, but hopefully harmon can stay at the strong safety positin for the rest of the year and leave gregory as the 3rd safety. Gregory's ability now is probably better than ed reed's.

 

[Deus Irae]

He is Ed Reed coming off of surgery and coming off a year last year where he was average at best. He is also Ed Reed who looked like hot garbage all year. People think because he is

I know who he is. Sure, we'd all be ignoring Ed Smith. That's because he'd be Ed Smith. The Patriots would have ignored Junior Smith, too. They didn't ignore Junior Seau.

That's the point.

So if after a year in the system, Collins becomes a perennial Pro Bowler, it is a huge screw up? This is turning into your MO lately. You declare the Pats screwed up on moves before you even let them play out. We won't know if drafting Collins was a bad move or not.

No, Rob... but, since you want to make this personal:

My M.O. is to evaluate moves, regardless of whether the homers/haters agree with my takes. Your M.O. is to disagree with me, be wrong, and then refuse to acknowledge it. In this case, safety was a huge need, and it could have been solved moving forward, on the cheap, by making the draft pick. Instead, they chose a project who's weak on-ball skills and lack of size mean he can't play the line, and who's coverage ability is pretty much just hope as of now.

In other words, they drafted a coverage LB who can't cover right now, when they needed safety help. But at least they pissed away money on Adrian Wilson!

Gregory has been playing close to the line a lot more than you are letting on and he has been a playmaker this year. I would argue since Mayo went down, Gregory has been a pretty decent factor in covering up a lot of deficiencies in the LBing corp without Mayo. Gregory has been an asset this year and not a liability.

I know what Gregory has been doing. As a player who was brought in to range in the back, he was a miserable failure. As a player who's role is being limited to run support and some help in the back, he's been better. That's the point about him being protected by the other 3 members of the secondary. If Dennard/Talib/McCourty wasn't a good enough trio to limit the outside/downfield passing game, Gregory would be getting exposed again this season.

The way Gregory has been playing, I am not expecting that Harmon can live up to that level. But I think with Talib back and Arrington moving inside, they can hide some of his deficiencies.

Harmon's skillset should allow him to replicate Gregory's game sufficiently to keep things running smoothly in the back four, at least for the most part. If it doesn't, we'll be back to wondering what might have been with Ed Reed. Unfortunately, even if Harmon can do this, it will still leave the Patriots vulnerable, as Wilson is likely to start getting more playing time. Tavon had better put on his big boy pants.

 

[JackBauer]

In other words, they drafted a coverage LB who can't cover right now, when they needed safety help.

I guess that's why they drafted Duron Harmon?