You are correct. Most play it 0 sum. I have to admit, Jackson is better than a lot starters right now in the NFL. He gives you a better chance to win than most other QBs. As I mentioned, he didn't have a ton of help out there today. A lot of things went wrong that weren't his fault and he couldn't control. I don't blame him for the missed kicks. The bad snaps. The bad protection. His WRs weren't open and the times they were he often had pressure in his face.
This has been a problem in big games of late. The last two games the offense as a whole has collapsed. Regression was alway coming, I knew that but the OL hasn't been the same. Drop off from Yanda is too noticeable and Jackson was pressured a lot more this year. Not too mention his C has been F'n him almost all year.
Take that pass late in the first quarter (I think) a WR broke open in the end zone but he had pressure in his face and missed the throw. While it's a possible throw to make, I don't think it was a bad play to miss it. He just failed to make a great play. Most NFL starting QBs usually fail to make great plays, otherwise they wouldn't be great plays : P
No QB can win without help. Even Brady in his prime get smacked around when his OL failed to block and his WR failed to get open. It is a team sport, the QB may be the engine, but if the rest of the car is trash I don't care how much horse power you have.
While I don't blame Jackson entirely for the loss or entirely give him credit for all the wins, I think the W/L record should fall on QBs over the long term. Just like a starting pitcher.
I feel like most baseball fans, mostly nerds would argue the opposite. W/L isn't exactly the best way to look at QB play as so many other factors come into play.
Few examples, every QB needs help in the way of targets but they also need OC help. Every QB including Brady. Everyone needs help. 1)Roman is asking Lamar to throw to 3 defended by 6. 2)Asking him to go through progressions when he's being blitzes to death. Instead of calling quick hitters to combat that rush. 3)Run a puller in front of Lamar more if you're going to do that wide-stretch stuff. 4)Hard to be more predictable than Roman's passing attack. No creativity. Like Mcvay has built a nice passing game off the rushing attack.
There is a reason why good QBs tend to win and bad ones tend to lose. You can't look at just any one game or one set of data, but if the data you have correlates with the W/L record that is usually telling. As for how many QBs I would take over Lamar besides the ones you named? It depends. Are we talking over the course of a year in just in the playoffs.
Over the course of a year I'd still take Brees, Allen and Watson. However, in the playoffs I think it is a different game. I think a QBs ability to pass is just so important when it comes to this time of year, which is why I'm down on Lamar. I do believe most are spoiled casual fans and I don't excuse Cam's bad play.
Brees would be done without Payton, Kamara & Thomas imo. Watson has less playoff wins than Jackson which some posters here seem to think matters when we're talking about 2-3 games? Like I'll hear pats fans say Lamar can't win in the playoffs but let's trade 2 1st and Gilmore for Watson. For the record I love Watson and would trade 3 1st for him just pointing out that a lot of posters are contradicting themselves and all over the place on this issue.
Take away the running game and Mcvay could Goff beat you for 2-3 games bc of his arm or pocket play?
What about if Cleveland's PA game and rushing attack was stuffed up, could Baker? Who I'm a big fan of still.
I mean Rodgers is walking into the HOF and look at the differences between McCarthy's packers and this year's squad?
Point is there's very few QB's in the league rn that can win solely bc of their arm. I hear it all the time and it drives me nuts. Where are these QB's bc I'm not seeing them. Jackson, Allen, Murray and some use their legs, others need scheme to make it happen. Take away the supplemental game, making things easy (running game, creative coaching, elite targets) and you have 4-5 QB's that make up the list.
We also need to remember the Ravens built their team in part around Lamar, while their pass blocking is suspect, they have one of the best run blocking OLs in the NFL. Maybe they should pay for a guy like Diggs, but perhaps the worry Lamar can't take full advantage of a guy like that? And some resources they invested to get such a player would go to waste. Not sure of that is true, total conjecture.
He absolutely needs a Diggs or Hopkins type. Contested catcher that can stretch the field for 15-25 chunks. Someone who doesn't need a perfect pass. Everyone needs this guy. Rn Jackson has the most trust in Willie Ahead imo. That's a problem if you have SB expectations.
In any case, right now even with my misgivings about Lamar there probably won't be 14 other QBs I'd rather have in the post season. But I just don't see them ever winning with him.
As far as the Jackson 'can't win with him arm' thing, I believe in that. In the playoffs your better off have a QB who stays in the pocket in throws, that style just seems to work better. Even with guys like Eli, Flacco, Foles. You get pocket passers and hope they get hot. You build your talent around the passing game and not the running game. In the end it comes down to I'd rather bet on Matt Ryan not peeing down his leg and hitting his down field passes. I just don't see a situation where you will face 3 good teams that don't have a way to take away a QB's running ability and make him play a game he didn't expect he would have to and isn't fully comfortable with.
But to be fair, we don't have a large sample of these guys. We're basically talking guys like Vick, RG3 an Jackson. There's also the injury concern that comes into play. Sadly Jackson got hurt again today. : (
The thing here is whether we like it or not more QB's can move and run than not. And very soon with guys like Brees, Brady, Ben, Rivers, Fitz leaving we'll have even more athletes at the position. You absolutely must be able to
win with your arm but QB's are just different now. Jackson, Allen, Mahomes and Mayfield all can make plays with their legs. The league isn't shifting its shifted imo.
Good post and thought out though I agree with some of what you have to say. Jackson absolutely has to improve but he's not nearly the player most make him out to be here. He's held to a different standard which is weird. No QB gets the reaction he does here. No talk about his pocket presence and scrambling ability. One of the best red zone passers since he started playing. The fact that he's one of the best anticipatory passers when it comes to the MOF. Making the playoffs each year, even coming in during the middle of his rookie year when the team had a losing record. Working with a poor WR corp and weird group of weapons. I just try to look at all sides and have some balance even though everyone (including me) has bias.
Even in today's game they had a legit chance to win. Two Tucker misses and a Andrews dropped TD. Over-throw from Huntley to Brown in the 4th that would have been 6. No luck in the past few big games and everyone needs a little luck. Pats fans should know that better than anyone.