Demaryius Thomas says he was insulted/disrespected by Patriots.

[venecol]

Are you serious ?

Meyers has 120 yards on 10 targets, DT has 108 on 15.

There is not much twisting happening.

Are you serious, DT has only played 3 games, limited in the 1st, and 2 of the games was with Falk as QB! He went 4 of 4 with Darnold for 62 yards in last game.

Meyers has played 5 games with the GOAT QB!

For you to claim Meyers >> DT is ludicrous.

 

[Ring 6]

Production is production.

I haven’t dropped a pass all season. Capisce?

What’s the value to the team? THAT is what determines whether BB wants to keep a player.

.

I seriously have no clue what you are talking about.
Statistics were presented and misrepresented based upon per route stats and by combining 2 players stats and comparing to 1.
You seem to be trying to say that because one player started the session injured the integrity of the stats is irrelevant.

 

[Ring 6]

If we down the highly reductive stats score argument road then this doesn't matter if you normalise your cumulative stats by game or in my case your yards by number of receptions.

That argument is lost when one player was available for essentially 2 games and played a handful of snaps in a 3rd and the other was available for 6 and played 5. NOW THAT BOTH ARE HEALTHY.
It’s like saying if mahomes misses 6 games when he comes back Andy dalton is better because he has more yards.

Again you are missing the point of the tweet you are mocking. This is not about single players being better than each other but that the potential production from DT in his role as WR3/WR4 has been at least adequately replaced by two rookie UDFAs while being a lot cheaper.

They aren’t sharing a spot. They are 2 separate WRs. It’s disingenuous.

And 2.9M base cap hit (with potential incentives going towards 5m) is a lot more than the two 490K cap hits of Gunner and Jacobi.

That has nothing at all to do with the fact the stats were manipulated and misrepresented.

whether we would be better off Thomas or not isn’t the discussion I am having, I am simply saying the statistical analysis presented was fraudulent.

that discussion would be much more in depth and have additional factors. Probably too much to reasonably discuss in a forum like this.

 

[Marqui]

I said clearly outplaying Meyers.

While DT might have slightly more yards per route he also has fewer yards per target. So statistically speaking he is not CLEARLY outplaying Meyers. Reasonably you can say that for now both are on a similar tier as none of the two is blowing the other away.

Or in other words the team has easily replicated the production while saving at least about 1.9m in cap space AND investing into the development of younger players that hopefully will be around beyond a year.

You don't think it's a fallacy to assume DTs production here would be exactly the same as it is with the Jets?

 

[luuked]

Are you serious, DT has only played 3 games, limited in the 1st, and 2 of the games was with Falk as QB! He went 4 of 4 with Darnold for 62 yards in last game.

Meyers has played 5 games with the GOAT QB!

For you to claim Meyers >> DT is ludicrous.

You are showing a lack of reading comprehension almost every day now.


I never said Meyers is better than DT. I said the opposite which is that DT has not shown anything clearly/substantially better than Meyers and that both are around the same tier.

If anything I wrote he was ahead of DT because he actually didn't miss 95% of the offseason but got to practice with Brady. If you take everything together (the WR3/WR4 role both would play, their respective salaries, their age and contract situation) then it is clear why keeping Meyers over DT is the right choice.

Also the number of games is statistically totally irrelevant if you normalise yardage by targets or by routes (like Lazar has done).

 

[luuked]

That argument is lost when one player was available for essentially 2 games and played a handful of snaps in a 3rd and the other was available for 6 and played 5.

It doesn't matter how many games someone is active if you fcuking normalise the numbers by some factor. If you start an argument on the basis of highly reductive descriptive stats then you can't just say "it doesn't count because the other guy only played so many games".

You normalise them against each other and can compare with all the trappings of using those silly stats.

It’s like saying if mahomes misses 6 games when he comes back Andy dalton is better because he has more yards.

????? Seriously, do you even understand statistics ? Look it up: normalisation.


The reality is that we are getting towards halftime of the regular season there has not been a substantial difference between the production of both players.

Whether that changes or not over the next 8 games is a totally different aspect and not point of the conversation.

 

[venecol]

Again you are missing the point of the tweet you are mocking. This is not about single players being better than each other but that the potential production from DT in his role as WR3/WR4 has been at least adequately replaced by two rookie UDFAs while being a lot cheaper.

This is an interesting argument, given that the roster seems to be full (BB: no room in the roster), yet it takes 2 guys to almost replace production of 1. Rookies (udfa) can develop in PS. At the moment team needs WR production. There is an entire thread on need to trade for a WR, and some are in their 30s, lol. If Gunner/Meyers were getting it done, why the need for a trade? Injuries, nope, team had JG and JE, or PD and JE or all 3 during many of the games.

I'm not sure why it is so difficult to just admit that trading DT away was a mistake. Sh%^t happens. I would rather see TB throwing passes at DT, especially in RZ than to Meyers/Gunner combo.

It is what it is.

 

[luuked]

I'm not sure why it is so difficult to just admit that trading DT away was a mistake.

Because the argument for this is just hindsight, based on thin depth right now since everyone is nursing an injury and AB got released.

If Gordon, Dorsett and Edelman are healthy do we have this conversation ? If AB was kept do we have this conversation ?

To me arguments based on hindsight are just lazy and ultimately pointless. They did what was right at the point of time and even did right by DT.

Circumstances change and right now with Edelman, Dorsett dinged up, Gordon gone for 2-4 weeks, AB cut and Harry not eligible until the Ravens game there would be space for him. But those are circumstances that you can't plan for at every positional group. With a roster size limit there is only so much depth you can have.

Which then brings the conversation back to Meyers and Gunner being cheaper and younger relative to DT on a one year deal.

 

[primetime]

Think if AB was still here, the decision to trade away DT would look more like doing him a good turn (sending him to a team where he could start so he wasn't spending the downside of a borderline HOF career riding pine and perhaps even being cut loose once Harry was ready) than a mistake. The AB situation blowing up, Gordon and Dorsett missing time, and Harry not being back yet has made the situation look worse for everyone, so Thomas can reasonably look at the Patriots roster now and get salty thinking he'd have been starting rather than playing a WR5 role as he most likely would have if everything was hunky dory.

If the Week 2 Patriots roster had worked out without issue and Thomas had been kept, you'd have...

Brown, Edelman, Gordon, Dorsett, Thomas

Gunner as PR, Meyers likely to PS, Harry practicing and ready to return in a couple weeks. In this situation, it's hard to see anyone other than Thomas being a healthy scratch who's on borrowed time until Harry is off IR. In that case, Thomas is salty because one of theast potential productive years of his career is being wasted.

 

[Ring 6]

It doesn't matter how many games someone is active if you fcuking normalise the numbers by some factor. If you start an argument on the basis of highly reductive descriptive stats then you can't just say "it doesn't count because the other guy only played so many games".

You normalise them against each other and can compare with all the trappings of using those silly stats.



????? Seriously, do you even understand statistics ? Look it up: normalisation.


The reality is that we are getting towards halftime of the regular season there has not been a substantial difference between the production of both players.

Whether that changes or not over the next 8 games is a totally different aspect and not point of the conversation.

Normalization isn’t adding together the stats of 2 guys who played a combined 11 games with one guy who played 2 1/4.
Perhaps it’s you who do not understand statistics.
The statistic provided that i referenced wee horrifically flawed. If you are defending them as complete, fake and reasonable you certainly don’t understand statistics.
If you take Thomas’ 2 heathy games and “normalize” them as a 6 game number he has 24 catches for 327 yards.
Question: is Thomas today healthy or sitting out? Why would you judge him based on games he say out?

that said, this is going nowhere. We are in the Internet I’m Right You’re Wrong Zone where no one wins, so I’m not going to respond further.

 

[shmessy]

That isn’t a “substantially outplaying” argument. That is a healthy is better than injured argument.

Again my point is the statistic were dishonest. Draw whatever conclusion you wish from them but it’s silly to not accept they were twisted.

Per game stats mean nothing if you can't be sure if the player is going to last a season.

DT has played two games this year.

So, according to you, Jonas Gray was the Greatest Patriot Running Back of All Time.

.

 

[luuked]

If you take Thomas’ 2 heathy games and “normalize” them as a 6 game number he has 24 catches for 327 yards.

That is not how you commonly normalise any kind of data. You don't just extrapolate but you break it down into comparable units.

so I’m not going to respond further

That's a great idea.

 

[shmessy]

When a guy on the other team has to manufacture phony outrage via his unwarranted butthurt, he's already conceding defeat and using it as a preemptive excuse for when his newly-found team tanks.

Anyhoo, the valiant attempt by him and the NY media to drum up an angry story angle against the Pats this Monday Night has been overtaken by the Kenechi Osemele hurricane.

.

 

[venecol]

Because the argument for this is just hindsight, based on thin depth right now since everyone is nursing an injury and AB got released.

If Gordon, Dorsett and Edelman are healthy do we have this conversation ? If AB was kept do we have this conversation ?

To me arguments based on hindsight are just lazy and ultimately pointless.

Hindsight for some, I was opposed to his release at the time, just like the release of Ben.

Disagree on the value of hindsight, since without it how can you avoid making the same mistake over and over.

Anyway, will you admit that his release was a mistake, even with hindsight? Would it not be a good thing to have DT on the roster instead of the Meyers/Gunner combo (you can keep one for another week or two).

At the end of the day, I'm only wanting another SB win this year! I believe we can accomplish that with veterans more so than udfa rookies. You can develop them next year or through PS involvement. It's SB victory or bust.

 

[Ring 6]

Per game stats mean nothing if you can't be sure if the player is going to last a season.

DT has played two games this year.

So, according to you, Jonas Gray was the Greatest Patriot Running Back of All Time.

.

Wow. Intentionally obtuse or genetically?

 

[Ring 6]

That is not how you commonly normalise any kind of data. You don't just extrapolate but you break it down into comparable units.

Lol it’s the same thing.
Comparing 2 games to 6 gives the same result if you divide by the number of games or triple the 2 games. COMPARABLE UNITS.

That's a great idea.

Clearly.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

This is an interesting argument, given that the roster seems to be full (BB: no room in the roster), yet it takes 2 guys to almost replace production of 1. Rookies (udfa) can develop in PS. At the moment team needs WR production. There is an entire thread on need to trade for a WR, and some are in their 30s, lol. If Gunner/Meyers were getting it done, why the need for a trade? Injuries, nope, team had JG and JE, or PD and JE or all 3 during many of the games.

I'm not sure why it is so difficult to just admit that trading DT away was a mistake. Sh%^t happens. I would rather see TB throwing passes at DT, especially in RZ than to Meyers/Gunner combo.

It is what it is.

But given our inability over the years to find and develop many young WRs, has Thomas done enough to make you feel ok watching Meyers develop into a good player on another team?

And nobody is suggesting we need to trade for a WR simply because Meyers isn't good enough, it's because they feel Edelman/Gordon/Dorsett/Meyers isn't good enough. Can you say with any conviction trade talks wouldn't still exist on this board if the group was Edelman/Gordon/Dorsett/Thomas?

 

[PScottman]

Never pans out.

Six Super Bowls is "never panning out"??

 

[TommyD4207]

I didn't know there was a Demaryius Thomas Boohoo Crew.

Learn something new every day.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Huh??? The twitter quote you posted shows he is outplaying Meyers.

Is 3/10ths of a yard really outplaying?

DT is a better player but when you are comparing $500k to $2.7m....meh