Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[1960Pats]

He was a jerk. It took me years to appreciate his genuine effectiveness and undeniable leadership ability which motivated players to perform their best under the greatest pressure, and which nurtured a tree of excellent coaches including Belichick and Coughlin.

Like most of us, I've always hated the Giants. This was a real bias for me. Plus, his abrasive behavior was a turnoff and I know a lot of you can't stand his egotistic bombasticness.

But everywhere he's been including in two stints here (he was an assistant in '80), his players liked him. They fought, argued, got insulted, and played hard for him. And I really appreciate his awareness of and insistence on respecting team tradition and history every place he was head coach.

I never blamed Fairbanks for how he left and I didn't blame Parcells either. He is what he is, take it or leave it. Orthwein hiring him is the turning point that laid the foundation for our success thereafter. It gave us instant credibility - the kind we would not have had even if Flutie stayed and won a couple Super Bowls for us. This is what the mediots base their stupid nominations of him for the team HOF on. I mean I'm grateful Ron Meyer brought Scar here with him in '83...but the guy doesn't belong in our HOF.

As far as that Super Bowl, it was painful in several respects. First, Kraft had (and still has) us in those stupid uniforms with that ugly insulting flying elvis. We look ridiculous. Second, seeing McMahon there back in the Superdome winning another ring at our expense sucked big time - twisted the knife.

But the Packers were nationally televised a lot in '96, and I saw they were loaded and well coached.

Activating Troy Brown might have helped. Getting the message across to Adam that if he kicked off even once to Howard he'd spend eternity in the fiery gates of hell would also have helped.

But the late Ray Perkins was our OC the entire time under Parcells and with Bledsoe since he was drafted. Drew throwing the ball won us games, yes. But dropping Drew back repeatedly, over and over, endlessly that day (48 times) to be sacked (5) and picked (4) worse than Tony Eason was wrong and that's what lost us the game. The Packers would not have stopped Curtis Martin if he'd had 25-30 carries - instead of only eleven.

So I'm happy for Bill's contribution to the Patriots and I appreciate his, well, greatness. But he does not belong in our hall of fame.

It's odd how Perkins was the Giants HC when Tuna was hired and BB was already there, but nobody calls them part of the Perkins coaching tree. They should.

 

[SVN]

Parcells is great example of a decent coach who knew how to keep the media happy and that too by berating them. And the media loved getting shouted at because it gave them easy material to write. So he is always regarded as a greater coach and the media never says a peep about him. With BB its the opposite.

 

[SVN]

 

[SVN]

https://www.radio.com/weei/sports/patriots/backlash-towards-bill-belichick-is-getting-excessive

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I think Belichick should be appreciated for what he did even though I think he no longer gives the team much of an edge.

20 years ago, most teams bumbled around with ”football guys” as GMs and coaches. I’m talking some real blockheads preaching smash mouth, toughness, signing players without regard to value, trading up in drafts with idiotic value.

Belichick was one of the few who was really analytical in regards to cap economics, player value, risk:reward, finding cheap, versatile players, etc.

Now in 2021, most every team has nerds, economists, capologists, and statisticians who weigh in along with the old school guys.

But Belichick ripped off so many teams in the draft, found so many undervalued players and was clearly (consciously or not) one of the earliest proponents of an analytics approach to the game.

That stuff mattered big time...nowadays it’s very hard to find a consistent edge.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I think Belichick should be appreciated for what he did even though I think he no longer gives the team much of an edge.

20 years ago, most teams bumbled around with ”football guys” as GMs and coaches. I’m talking some real blockheads preaching smash mouth, toughness, signing players without regard to value, trading up in drafts with idiotic value.

Belichick was one of the few who was really analytical in regards to cap economics, player value, risk:reward, finding cheap, versatile players, etc.

Now in 2021, most every team has nerds, economists, capologists, and statisticians who weigh in along with the old school guys.

But Belichick ripped off so many teams in the draft, found so many undervalued players and was clearly (consciously or not) one of the earliest proponents of an analytics approach to the game.

That stuff mattered big time...nowadays it’s very hard to find a consistent edge.

There are so many positives in a Bill Belichick run operation that I don't care about negatives or if anything has passed him by.

I'll take him as long as he wants to coach. I also think there could be more titles with him around.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I think Belichick should be appreciated for what he did even though I think he no longer gives the team much of an edge.

20 years ago, most teams bumbled around with ”football guys” as GMs and coaches. I’m talking some real blockheads preaching smash mouth, toughness, signing players without regard to value, trading up in drafts with idiotic value.

Belichick was one of the few who was really analytical in regards to cap economics, player value, risk:reward, finding cheap, versatile players, etc.

Now in 2021, most every team has nerds, economists, capologists, and statisticians who weigh in along with the old school guys.

But Belichick ripped off so many teams in the draft, found so many undervalued players and was clearly (consciously or not) one of the earliest proponents of an analytics approach to the game.

That stuff mattered big time...nowadays it’s very hard to find a consistent edge.

I think maybe because of the crying Vermeil is underrated. You could say he got lucky with Warner but again, he made a bunch of shrewd moves to set the Rams up and give Kurt the chance when it came.

 

[SVN]

Will Tom Brady's Success With Bucs Motivate Bill Belichick? Ty Law Weighs In - NESN.com

Here's how Ty Law believes Bill Belichick is handling Tom Brady's ongoing success with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

nesn.com

Seeing as both Brady and Belichick are ultra competitors, one might think the quarterback’s success with the Bucs will serve as fuel to the Patriots head coach’s fire. Ty Law, who won three Super Bowl titles alongside Brady and Belichick, doesn’t believe that’s the case.

“I don’t think Bill has that much of an ego,” Law told WRPI’s Yianni Kourakis on Wednesday. “I mean, we all have egos, don’t get me wrong. Yeah, Bill has one, but when it comes to Tom, I think there’s more love than anything. I know he wants Tom to do well. Think about it, 20 years of doing anything, whether it’s a job, relationship. They were married to each other in this game of football, in this business for 20 years. Sometimes you have to separate.

“I don’t think there are any hard feelings and I know the Patriots Nation, Mr. Kraft, Coach Belichick — they’re all pulling for Tom to do well. You don’t want him to go down there and lose because at the end of the day, Tom is going to be recognized as a Patriot. This is just one more notch under the belt and I think Coach Belichick will be just fine.”

 

[SVN]

Its funny .when pats one , the media and people everyone kept bringing up the cheatings and spygate etc which in essence was throwing shade at the QB's ability. Now that brady has left, it was all the QB they supposedly said had help with video tapes :-D

 

[SVN]

https://www.radio.com/weei/sports/patriots/willie-mcginest-weighs-in-on-tom-brady-vs-bill-belichick

 

[203Pat]

Notable Players on 2000 Patriots (5-11)

Drew Bledsoe
Kevin Faulk
J.R. Redmond
Patrick Pass
Troy Brown
Terry Glenn
Bruce Armstrong
Adrian Klemm
Damien Woody
Bobby Hamilton
Willie McGinest
Tedy Bruschi
Ted Johnson
Chris Slade
Tebucky Jones
Ty Law
Antwan Harris
Lawyer Milloy
Lonnie Paxton
Adam Vinatieri

Team Bill Narrative: This team was so bad, terrible, horrendous. Bill needed to completely rebuild the entire roster.

Also, Team Bill Narrative: Most of these guys were absolutely essential to the first three Super Bowls. Brady NeVeR wOuLdA won without a great supporting cast like this.

I agree with you. The revisionist history on how bad the team was when Bill got it is laughable. The first half of the dynasty was launched with a lot of players that Bill inherited.

 

[XLIX]

The Belichick v. Brady debate is officially over. In fact, it is so lopsided that..... well, let's put it this way:

If Tom wins another one in TB, then people are going to start suggesting that working with Belichick maybe held him back.

 

[SVN]

https://www.radio.com/weei/sports/patriots/tom-brady-reacts-to-himself-vs-bill-belichick-debate

One of the biggest storylines prior to Super Bowl LV was Tom Brady vs. Bill Belichick.

Speaking to Jim Gray on Westwood One Radio prior to the game, the Tampa Bay quarterback wanted no part in the debate.

“I’ve never once in my life thought about that,” Brady said. “That’s a very hypothetical situation for me to — I think that’s definitely a conversation that people like to have because in the end, it just can create some entertainment.

“Coaches don’t play, and players don’t coach. You need great coaches, and you need great players, and that’s the way the sport works. It’s not an individual sport. It’s a team sport.”

Of course, Brady led the Buccaneers to a Super Bowl in his first year with the organization, while Belichick and the Patriots had their worst record since 2000 in their first year without Brady under center.

“The only thing that (debate) does is it tries to create division either inside your team that the outside wants to tear apart what you’ve accomplished,” he said. “I don’t think that’s an argument that I’ve ever wanted to be a part of, thought to be a part of. I’ve greatly appreciated what I’ve learned from the coaching mentors that I’ve had — certainly Coach Belichick.

“I couldn’t be who I am without those amazing coaches that I’ve had, and I couldn’t be the player I am without all the other playing mentors I’ve had. In the end, to me, it’s all irrelevant. The greatest joy I have in sports is living up to my potential for my team and being the best that I can for my team, and that’s what motivates me. That’s 100 percent of my motivation.”

 

[Guts]

It was always Tom Brady

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

It was always Tom Brady

To be specific:

Yes, Tom's greatest talent is making things work. Through determination, hard work, accepting the personnel and circumstances around him and making the best of them, and bringing out the best in them. And not crying over spilled milk, but sweating over it (apologies to recently widowed President Carter).

But we should accept that there was tremendous potential built here by the work and diligence and commitment of Kraft and Belichick. Plus, Brady never would have even been here without Bob & Bill. The fact it's a sh*tshow without him now is what it was before the Mo Lewis hit except for very very poor personnel decisions, including players & coaches.

 

[Guts]

To be specific:

Yes, Tom's greatest talent is making things work. Through determination, hard work, accepting the personnel and circumstances around him and making the best of them, and bringing out the best in them. And not crying over spilled milk, but sweating over it (apologies to recently widowed President Carter).

But we should accept that there was tremendous potential built here by the work and diligence and commitment of Kraft and Belichick. Plus, Brady never would have been here with Bob & Bill. The fact it's a sh*tshow without him now is what it was before the Mo Lewis hit except for very very poor personnel decisions, including players & coaches.

Of course I'll give BB his due.
Once he retires

 

[VectorPrime]

It feels good to be right.

 

[1960Pats]

To be specific:

Yes, Tom's greatest talent is making things work. Through determination, hard work, accepting the personnel and circumstances around him and making the best of them, and bringing out the best in them. And not crying over spilled milk, but sweating over it (apologies to recently widowed President Carter).

But we should accept that there was tremendous potential built here by the work and diligence and commitment of Kraft and Belichick. Plus, Brady never would have even been here without Bob & Bill. The fact it's a sh*tshow without him now is what it was before the Mo Lewis hit except for very very poor personnel decisions, including players & coaches.

There's quite a few teams that would have excelled with Brady as their QB, just like Bill and Bob have. Teaching football isn't brain surgery. It's something that half the people here could do if given the chance.

Bill lucked out in that he didn't get a Manning or a Rodgers type QB who wouldn't have been as agreeable as Brady over the plays or the money. And it was neither Bill nor Bob who wanted him here, it was **** Rehbein.

I say bring back Pat Patriot instead of Bill Belichick.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

There's quite a few teams that would have excelled with Brady as their QB, just like Bill and Bob have. Teaching football isn't brain surgery. It's something that half the people here could do if given the chance.

Bill lucked out in that he didn't get a Manning or a Rodgers type QB who wouldn't have been as agreeable as Brady over the plays or the money. And it was neither Bill nor Bob who wanted him here, it was **** Rehbein.

I say bring back Pat Patriot instead of Bill Belichick.

Manning needed several all pros at all times in order to make his single formation “dig” concept work. Brady ran every type of offense and formation and adjusted based on defensive weakness.

 

[1960Pats]

Of course I'll give BB his due.
Once he retires

I don't care if he leaves the NYFL. Just leave the Pats. That way he can truly do what's best for the t-e-a-m team.

And what exactly is his due? Even the GOATs that helped the team win were discarded and weren't due anything. Why should Bill be any different?