Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[NashuaPats]

vs.

 

[sb1]

Easily BB! (Brady & Belichick)

Great coaches maximize what they have. Bill did that for sure. I think Coach Bill took a crap sandwich that the GM gave him and made it at least look nice in presentation. Highly doubtful even Lombardi or Shula do much better than Bill did this year if they had a roster like this.

This team's window shut last year. It's all about the rebuild now. Progression matters to me more than record. If we finish 6-10 next year but we are better and younger and faster and promising guys we have now like Harris take a big step forward, and they play hard and play well, and we have a QB that even with growing pains he looks like he might be the answer for us then I'm good with that. Then I can't see the window being closed for long and the winning and championships will come. But if we finish 9-7 and there are the same questions as this year then that's not progression.

Bill is on the clock now.

 

[VrabelJr]

This thread is as dumb as it was the day it was started. I thought 2021 was supposed to be better?

 

[203Pat]

Easily BB! (Brady & Belichick)

Bill planned poorly for the season. Flat out. He had no plan in place for the most important position win the team.

 

[ashley]

This thread is as dumb as it was the day it was started. I thought 2021 was supposed to be better?

It has gotten numerous requests to be closed and we are almost at that point. Thought this would be a good place to hold all the bill vs tom talk but it has gone into numerous other threads as well and trolls are coming out of the woodwork from both sides and good posters are complaining that it's getting out of hand.

 

[Uptown]

Bill planned poorly for the season. Flat out. He had no plan in place for the most important position win the team.

It was both BB & Brady together. Anything else is asinine. Flat out.

 

[203Pat]

It was both BB & Brady together. Anything else is asinine. Flat out.

I agree there is no chance either one has 6 rings without the other. That being said Bill bungled the Brady situation.

 

[PATS16N0]

Tom got the benefit of having a disciplined football team that didn’t regularly shoot itself in the foot, but he also got highly questionable drafting.

Belichick without Brady utterly lacks the same mystique.

Bill said it himself: “It’s a players game.”

Tom is far and away the GOAT. Unless you’re going to tell me my eyes have been lying to me for twenty years, it was obviously mostly Tom.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

It was both BB & Brady together. Anything else is asinine. Flat out.

Agreed. It’s funny to see people on this board put down the other depending on what side they’re on.

 

[PATS16N0]

There are other NFL teams that managed to stay competitive for a long time without having Tom Brady (Ravens, Saints), so maybe with Tom they would have been ridiculous.

Maybe Tom would have 8 rings if he was somewhere coaches actually valued superstars over Rutgers scheme ideas.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

I agree there is no chance either one has 6 rings without the other. That being said Bill bungled the Brady situation.

He bungled it by poor drafts especially on the offensive side. Replace Cam with TB and I don’t see a way this current roster competes for a title. It was honestly best for TBs career to go somewhere where they had the pieces in place to compete for titles in his last few years and in our case we got to start the rebuild a year earlier and we are now poised to make some moves in free agency.

 

[203Pat]

He bungled it by poor drafts especially on the offensive side. Replace Cam with TB and I don’t see a way this current roster competes for a title. It was honestly best for TBs career to go somewhere where they had the pieces in place to compete for titles in his last few years and in our case we got to start the rebuild a year earlier and we are now poised to make some moves in free agency.

I agree. I didn't want to see Brady go but with what Bill gave him to work with there is no chance this team would be playing in the AFCCG.

 

[sb1]

Tom got the benefit of having a disciplined football team that didn’t regularly shoot itself in the foot, but he also got highly questionable drafting.

Belichick without Brady utterly lacks the same mystique.

Bill said it himself: “It’s a players game.”

Tom is far and away the GOAT. Unless you’re going to tell me my eyes have been lying to me for twenty years, it was obviously mostly Tom.

Great players need coaches and great coaches need players
---- Tom Brady

I agree. I'd also say great coaches need players more than great players needing coaches. Peyton Manning took Jim Caldwell to a SB. Caldwell is not a great or even good coach.

 

[lancerman]

Agreed. It’s funny to see people on this board put down the other depending on what side they’re on.

The problem is there is a difference between saying "its a mix of both" and then people making suspect arguments to justify viewpoints. Like there is one side that does desperately want to say we should ignore all but 20 games one guy coached without the other. That's not a real argument.

A more realistic take is that teams need great QB's to be consistently successful, great QB's need great infrastructure and supporting pieces to consistently be successful. Brady is the best QB ever and him coming here turned our fortunes and Belichick when he had what he needed was able to get the support to give Brady the platform to lead this team to victory.

You need both, but one is harder to find and more of the engine and one is more of the schematics that keep the rest in place for the engine to do it's thing. Belichick coached 8 years without Brady and hasn't found a sufficient engine in those 8 years to get where he went with Brady. Arians isn't a world class coach but he has a good team and that's enough for Brady to do his thing. Doug Pederson was not an amazing coach, but he had an engine that hit peak performance in the playoffs and it was enough with the talent they had. McCarthy is proving to be a pretty subpar coach without Rodgers but with him he was able to provide just enough to win one SB and be in the hunt. Andy Reid is a well renowned coach and had great outcomes with McNab and Smith but it really took Mahomes to make his team a major favorite each year for three years running.

 

[ashley]

This board over the years has become the GOAT of all boards...it is the pinnacle of fan forums across the NFL, the apex..I get emails from other mods/posters on other boards that come on here to read what is going on...how the fans are reacting to the Patriots, etc. .....Take pride in what you post, if you see someone trolling, please let one of the mods know. Unfortunately there have been too many new posters recently coming on and looking to incite and agitate and troll.

Going to lock thread in a little while, hoping we can transition to discussing this weekends games, drafts or whatever other football topics come about.

Ash

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Rodney was considered done and was let go by his team. He was then offered a job here. That may have been all that was behind his move here.

Harrison had made one stop already, and had others scheduled before he decided to sign here after his visit and interview for less money and much less fanfare than the other teams were offering.

Apparently, Tom didn't know that he was leaving. If he did why would he have spent millions to build a brand new home in Brookline after winning his 6th SB?

We knew we were eventually moving on from him a long time ago. Better? A person never knows exactly what will happen when their future is in question. But a practical person keeps their options open. There are several aspects of leaving that made it unappealing to Tom. He gave the Patriots a chance to do whatever it took to keep him. They wouldn't. Their reasoning upsets many fans, but that very reasoning is what led to Tom coming here and succeeding in the first place.

The Celtics never won squat until Russell came along

After their first four losing seasons, Walter Brown hired Auerbach and they made the playoffs in each of the six years before Russell.

won 11 of 13 while he was here, including with Bill as the HC after Red moved upstairs

Red hired Bill.

How Bill Russell became the Celtics' head coach 54 years ago today

Boston Celtics legend Bill Russell became the first African American head coach in modern US history 54 years ago today.

celticswire.usatoday.com

then they went many years without winning another tile

One (1) losing season. Two years after that they're in the conference finals. Two years later they win the first of two championships in three years, the only team to accomplish that in the 70's. The time between Havlicek's last title and Bird's first is a grand total of four seasons including two playoff losses to the finalist Sixers. After 1986, it's difficult to imagine the Celtics not winning at least one or two more titles had Len Bias not passed away.

They were never as dominant again.

No one anywhere in any sport has ever been as dominant, or ever will be.

It's about the players and always has been.

This is very much true in the NBA. The other leagues have produced champions occasionally not loaded with stars - Bruins, Bucs and early Brady Pats among them. The Carolina Panthers were not star studded when they won the Cup. I'm not saying players are irrelevant.

Patriots fans should know as well as anyone how important having a good head coach is. The Fairbanks and Parcells hiring are arguably the most important events in modern team history. Without them you can forget all about the ensuing sustained success.

the GOAT Brady taking, of all teams, the TB Bucs deep into the playoffs

Bucs had good players (Evans) and added several very good others including Gronk, AB and Fournette.

while the GOAT HC is sitting at home watching on the boob tube

Wherever he is, he's scouting on the boob tube. He's also working and preparing for the draft, free agency and training camp.

He's not dwelling on this past season, whether we had our worst year since 2000 or we won the Super Bowl.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

It's all about the rebuild now. Progression matters to me more than record. If we finish 6-10 next year but we are better and younger and faster and promising guys we have now like Harris take a big step forward, and they play hard and play well, and we have a QB that even with growing pains he looks like he might be the answer for us then I'm good with that. Then I can't see the window being closed for long and the winning and championships will come.

You just described our 3-11 1975 season.

 

[oceansizer]

Both are goats but in different areas. Both powered and motivated each other for many years successfully. I know only one thing about these two : BB can coach a team better than Tom but Tom is a better passer

 

[Brewskies]

Right now Bill is 26-28 without Brady as Patriots HC.

Bill gets a good QB and he probably would have a good record but you could say that about any coach.

I said Bill Belichick's record, which includes more than the Patriots. Everyone but you knows that Belichick is the G.O.A.T of all coaches yet you disagree to defend Brady. What a joke.

 

[borg]

This board over the years has become the GOAT of all boards...it is the pinnacle of fan forums across the NFL, the apex..I get emails from other mods/posters on other boards that come on here to read what is going on...how the fans are reacting to the Patriots, etc. .....Take pride in what you post, if you see someone trolling, please let one of the mods know. Unfortunately there have been too many new posters recently coming on and looking to incite and agitate and troll.

Going to lock thread in a little while, hoping we can transition to discussing this weekends games, drafts or whatever other football topics come about.

Ash

Why is there a need to steer discussions ?

Bounce the trolls
And let posters engage in threads that interest them, not what interests the mods