PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Day 3 and 4 Training Camp Thread-Friday July 30th & Sat 31st

[Bourne Again Christian]

I have a buddy that works close with the team. His take is Cam is way out ahead in terms of experience and knowing our offense and will only lengthen the divide in TC/preseason. Jones is making a ton of rookie mistakes understandably. My friend believes Cam will start the whole season barring injury.

I know. Friggin depressing.

We will see.
What matters is preseason when both guys are getting hit and bullets are flying.
Cam was also going to look better in shorts, the Pads aren’t even on yet.
I’ll cheer for any player on the Patriots but I’m not ready to concede this battle is Cams victory. It’s the little nuances that won’t show up til the plays matter that will declare the victor.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I have a buddy that works close with the team. His take is Cam is way out ahead in terms of experience and knowing our offense and will only lengthen the divide in TC/preseason. Jones is making a ton of rookie mistakes understandably. My friend believes Cam will start the whole season barring injury.

I know. Friggin depressing.

This makes total sense to me, and I was driving the Mac bandwagon early. I don't think rushing Mac will help the kid's development, nor do I think inserting him half way through the season while NFL defenses got fine tuned for 2 months before his first start, sets him up for success either. We're going to be in a sick situation where certain media and fans will be rooting for Cam to play terrible for multiple straight weeks.

One thing that's possibly more concerning to me is with how good the OLine is supposed to be, seems like both QBs are getting sacked a lot in practice. It's still early but Worth watching.

 

[Ross12]

IMO:

Starting Newton is fine, as long as it's either because the team wants to give Jones a couple/few weeks on the sidelines to see how everything looks at ground level, or because Newton is clearly ahead of a no-yet-ready Jones, or because Belichick has a plan in place for weeks 1-4 (and particularly week 4) that requires Cam under center as the starter.

Agreed - another thing to remember is that the first three games are:

1. Home against Miami
2. Away against NYJ
3. Home against New Orleans

I expect they can handle Miami and NYJ with Cam, and IMO, New Orleans is a ~.500 team this year with no Brees and if Thomas remains hobbled, among their other issues. No reason to think they can't go 3-0 with Cam there and give Mac more time. The question then becomes what they want to do against Tampa at home in Week 4. Obviously it's "Brady's return" but they're also the defending Super Bowl champions and it's no better opportunity to test your mettle and see how you stack up. Do they maybe have Mac spend extra time prepping for that game and make the switch then? Or do they roll with Cam until then, and then swap after? Their next ~6 games afterward do not appear to be particularly tough at the moment.

 

[amfootball]

Of course then there is this admission from Newton. Heaven help us. Jones really needs to progress as fast as he can.


Newton’s timing within the offenses structure is improving, and those strides are leading to more accurate passes. He seems to have it down when everything works as designed, but things are still a little delayed once the defense spins the dial a bit.

The Pats’ quarterback spoke about his maturation in the offense, saying, “in the classroom or when we’re meeting, coach asks a question — boom, that’s where we’re supposed to go with the ball,” Newton said.

“OK, now you’ve got Devin McCourty showing something, Kyle Dugger’s showing something. Then all of a sudden, [Dont’a] Hightower jumps over here, and all of a sudden, it’s like, ‘What do I do? What do I do? What do I do? It’s just taking the brain a little longer at times. But hopefully, with a lot of repetitions, it’ll be good.”

Lazar: Patriots' Improved Offense is Already Looking the Part in Training Camp | CLNS Media

The reviews of the Patriots’ offseason upgrades on the offensive side of the ball were mixed, but New England's new-look offense looks the part in camp.

www.clnsmedia.com

 

[Pats2000]

Yep. He's right there on passes but things like calling audibles, reading defenses, changing protections, avoiding sacks, burning blitzes, leading the huddle and being respected in the locker room...I think whomever is better in those areas will decide who starts Week 1.

We'll know more after the joint practices and the preseason

From all accounts that I've heard he processes that stuff quicker than Cam does

 

[Pats2000]

I have a buddy that works close with the team. His take is Cam is way out ahead in terms of experience and knowing our offense and will only lengthen the divide in TC/preseason. Jones is making a ton of rookie mistakes understandably. My friend believes Cam will start the whole season barring injury.

I know. Friggin depressing.

I mean the mistakes are to be expected. He's a rookie, it's how quickly does he move on from them. He seems to be pretty close to Cam from media reports

 

[PScottman]

My friend believes Cam will start the whole season barring injury.

Historical precedence demonstrates that the odds of Cam being hurt in the coming season is relatively high. While COVID isn't listed on the attached site showing his injury history (Cam Newton - Injury History) he obviously missed time last year too.

 

[catent]

I have a buddy that works close with the team. His take is Cam is way out ahead in terms of experience and knowing our offense and will only lengthen the divide in TC/preseason. Jones is making a ton of rookie mistakes understandably. My friend believes Cam will start the whole season barring injury.

I know. Friggin depressing.

Imagine being depressed at the prospect of the NFL team you (allegedly) support starting/playing the QB they feel gives the team the best opportunity to win.

Friggin’ depressing, right?

 

[rochrist]

It's real simple. Cam is going to start the season. BB isn't budging on that. Even if Mac looks better after preseason, Cam is going to start the first quarter at minimum. It's just the way BB does things. But, because I have full faith that Cam will basically be who he was last year, I do think Mac will get in by midseason, or if Cam gets the Foxboro Flu - so it can look respectful that he's not being benched too soon. I don't expect Mac to be great, but I agree with the idea that he may as well get his rookie bugs out now, rather than wasting another year next year as his first game experience. As for Gilmore, HT, DMC - I'd think they'd be happy, if Cam isn't maximizing this talented Offense, to see the kid given a chance especially if they're seeing good things in practice. As has been said - rookies have shown to be productive lately. And do we believe Alabama with Saban provides as good of a system for Mac to be as ready as Herbert or Burrow last year - with a full offseason too? Yes.

Right. Because the one principle BB never adheres to is doing what's best for the team. Shame really.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Has Mac thrown any pics yet? We know Cam has a couple.

I thought that he did have a couple last week but from what I recall one was tipped in the air and the other was the result of a very athletic play by Hightower. Give me some rookie growing pains as long as that rookie can make rapid decisions and moves on quickly from his second read when Plan A blows up.

Perhaps the most painful part of watching Cam last year was seeing him lock onto the primary receiver for a far, far too long on a consistent basis, such that his second read would have already completed his route, at which point the play becomes a Chinese fire drill.

 

[Deus Irae]

Imagine being depressed at the prospect of the NFL team you (allegedly) support starting/playing the QB they feel gives the team the best opportunity to win.

Friggin’ depressing, right?

Yes, quite often.

 

[borg]

Imagine being depressed at the prospect of the NFL team you (allegedly) support starting/playing the QB they feel gives the team the best opportunity to win.

Friggin’ depressing, right?

Who needs to imagine?
Are we to pretend "Cam 2020" was merely a figment of our imagination?
(A terrifying figment)

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Right. Because the one principle BB never adheres to is doing what's best for the team. Shame really.

Come on, dude…not here to dump on Bill, but what the hell does this actually mean in the context of the post you responded to? Every coach in every sport in the history of sport is going to do what he believes is in the best interest of the team. Bill also said it’s going to be a hard decision. He doesn’t always know what’s best for the team either…that’s what makes these decisions tough even for him.

 

[ashley]

Good news:

 

[Ring 6]

From all accounts that I've heard he processes that stuff quicker than Cam does

I watched a veteran QB last year who plays the position like a rookie. He was consistently slow on reads, very often throwing after the window closed, his decision making was poor, and his dealing with the rush very shaky.
A good example was when he would throw an out and repeat it, but their a little late and behind, then come back by the same throw and get picked. It happened at least 3 times.
When a rusher would break free, instead of escaping, throwing the ball away, taking the sack (or his forbid hitting the hot read) he would literally chuck the ball right at the rusher. That happened at least a dozen times. When the rush came he almost never scrambled for positive yards which is what his strength would be, he just seemed to stand there trying to figure out how to find a receiver.

It was never the bounced passes and other misfires that frustrated me it was that he seemed to have no idea how to play the position on drip back passes.

If those are the things that would hold back a rookie, Jones needs very little progress to win the job.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Imagine being depressed at the prospect of the NFL team you (allegedly) support starting/playing the QB they feel gives the team the best opportunity to win.

Friggin’ depressing, right?

These posts are why these threads suck. You have a Patriots fan offering an opinion on the QB situation, on an amateur online forum where amateur online posters are supposed to give their opinions. Then you kick him in the balls and attack his fan purity because he thinks the player will cause the team to perform poorly, based on watching him last year (and his opinion is shared by many.)

Maybe you could try a counter argument, coming up with some facts, a different perspective, etc. rather than your typical reply…some variation of: “You’ll eat what they’re serving, and if you don’t like it, you don’t deserve to be here!”

 

[RobertWeathers]

From all accounts that I've heard he processes that stuff quicker than Cam does

Yea I'm reading the same thing. The consensus seems to be Cam does a little bit more surveying of the field and Mac gets the ball out pretty damn quick.

 

[rochrist]

Come on, dude…not here to dump on Bill, but what the hell does this actually mean in the context of the post you responded to? Every coach in every sport in the history of sport is going to do what he believes is in the best interest of the team. Bill also said it’s going to be a hard decision. He doesn’t always know what’s best for the team either…that’s what makes these decisions tough even for him.

It means he isn't going to keep Cam as the starter because he's 'stubborn'.

 

[catent]

These posts are why these threads suck. You have a Patriots fan offering an opinion on the QB situation, on an amateur online forum where amateur online posters are supposed to give their opinions. Then you kick him in the balls and attack his fan purity because he thinks the player will cause the team to perform poorly, based on watching him last year (and his opinion is shared by many.)

Maybe you could try a counter argument, coming up with some facts, a different perspective, etc. rather than your typical reply…some variation of: “You’ll eat what they’re serving, and if you don’t like it, you don’t deserve to be here!”

It was a post bemoaning the fact Cam might start. Mac is rather clearly the better QB to run the Patriots’ offense IMO. If he gives the team the better opportunity to win, he’ll start. I understand that perspective and share it.

What I don’t understand is not fully and completely supporting Cam should the coaching staff determine he’s the starting QB. There are people who legitimately don’t like Cam and actively disparage and root against him. Why?

I trust Belichick to make the correct decision. I won’t actively root against players on the team I support, and I won’t assume the coach will make the wrong decision (or be upset if the coach starts the player my layman’s gut feeling tells me isn’t the best option).

 

[Deus Irae]

Right. Because the one principle BB never adheres to is doing what's best for the team. Shame really.

It means he isn't going to keep Cam as the starter because he's 'stubborn'.

Benching Seymour
Benching Welker
Benching Butler
Trying to trade Gronk
Pushing Brady out


Let's not act like he's never worked off anything beyond "best for the team", because he's done it with top players, sometimes at the most critical moments.