PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Day 3 and 4 Training Camp Thread-Friday July 30th & Sat 31st

[RobertWeathers]

Mac is Definitely the future, newtons Not going to be here next year, but i'd like MJ get a season of holding a clip board like Brady did if at all possible. Over the years ive seen to many Qbs unable to deal with immediately being thrown right into the NFL from college.

Agree but there have been rookie QBs who have jumped right in and played in their 1st year in the league.

Burrow was doing ok until he got hurt.

Allen in BUF was painful, but he got the reps.

Everyone is different.

 

[Family]

there have been rookie QBs who have jumped right in and played in their 1st year in the league.

Burrow was doing ok until he got hurt.

Allen in BUF was painful, but he got the reps.

Everyone is different.

And Mac is different in that he's reported to be the most NFL ready of the top QBs in this year's draft. This was considered one of Mac's best attributes.

The old way of thinking that a QB needed time was based on:

1) Defenses that remained together longer before free agency.
2) QB's taken by bad teams with bad offensive lines.

Yes every situation is different.

 

[Uptown]

 

[TomPatriot]

I'm not excited about a 6-11 season to give Mac a learning year this year, next year I'm all for it. The team won't contend throwing a rookie QB in there, it's never happened even going back to Marino or Big Ben.

.

Huh? The Steelers went 15-1 in Ben’s rookie year, losing in the AFCCG.

I also think Dallas went to the playoffs with Dak in his rookie year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

And Mac is different in that he's reported to be the most NFL ready of the top QBs in this year's draft. This was considered one of Mac's best attributes.

The old way of thinking that a QB needed time was based on:

1) Defenses that remained together longer before free agency.
2) QB's taken by bad teams with bad offensive lines.

Yes every situation is different.

Yep and the other aspect to this competition is avoidance of negative plays, recognizing a bad one before it happens and pre/post snap discipline.

Based on his experience, Cam has the clear advantage in that area as did Drew over Tom at the end of camp in 2001 even though he outperformed Drew during TC.

The only way you improve is reps and experience.

 

[1960Pats]

Harris - Michel - Stevenson - Taylor - White - Bolden....honestly that is an insane stable of running backs. Add in Cam..wow.

Having Cam take TDs away from the running backs wasn't a formula for success last year and it won't be this year.

My solution to the QB problem is to trade for Deshawn Watson. Give Houston Cam (a former MVP) and a draft pick and roll the dice that Watson doesn't end up suspended.

 

[1960Pats]

Huh? The Steelers went 15-1 in Ben’s rookie year, losing in the AFCCG.

I also think Dallas went to the playoffs with Dak in his rookie year.

A couple of last year's rookies looked good also. The idea that rookies can't win in the NYFL is fake news.

 

[sean10mm]

Huh? The Steelers went 15-1 in Ben’s rookie year, losing in the AFCCG.

I also think Dallas went to the playoffs with Dak in his rookie year.

Rookie Dak led the offense to 31 points over the Packers in the playoffs (with >300 yards passing and more TDs and a higher passer rating than Rodgers) but their defense melted down at the end of the game. There was no magical "rookie QB cooties" that cost them the game.

 

[Pats2000]

Yep and the other aspect to this competition is avoidance of negative plays, recognizing a bad one before it happens and pre/post snap discipline.

Based on his experience, Cam has the clear advantage in that area as did Drew over Tom at the end of camp in 2001 even though he outperformed Drew during TC.

The only way you improve is reps and experience.

I dunno the Dude, Mac is right behind Cam in TC. Its not like Cam is running away with it. And TB was in his 2nd year by 2001, he was a 6th round pick going up against a 1st round starter. Completely different situation.

I think Mac would do well if he started week 1, but I think he would also benefit from sitting and watching for a few games. So I think hes starter by week 6

 

[Pats2000]

Having Cam take TDs away from the running backs wasn't a formula for success last year and it won't be this year.

My solution to the QB problem is to trade for Deshawn Watson. Give Houston Cam (a former MVP) and a draft pick and roll the dice that Watson doesn't end up suspended.

You left out 3 first round draft picks for Watson. Seems expensive to hope that he won't get suspended, when you have what looks like a great pick in Mac

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Having Cam take TDs away from the running backs wasn't a formula for success last year and it won't be this year.

My solution to the QB problem is to trade for Deshawn Watson. Give Houston Cam (a former MVP) and a draft pick and roll the dice that Watson doesn't end up suspended.

Oh, ok.

Why stop there? Can we trade for Davantae Adams and Aaron Donald too? Hell can we get Gronk back and have 4 TE sets?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I dunno the Dude, Mac is right behind Cam in TC. Its not like Cam is running away with it. And TB was in his 2nd year by 2001, he was a 6th round pick going up against a 1st round starter. Completely different situation.

I think Mac would do well if he started week 1, but I think he would also benefit from sitting and watching for a few games. So I think hes starter by week 6

Yep. He's right there on passes but things like calling audibles, reading defenses, changing protections, avoiding sacks, burning blitzes, leading the huddle and being respected in the locker room...I think whomever is better in those areas will decide who starts Week 1.

We'll know more after the joint practices and the preseason

 

[PScottman]

We'll know more after the joint practices

Amen. That data, in the mix against unknowns, doing unpredictable things, and seeing how both of them react to that - that is a coaching gold mine of relevant information for decision making purposes.

 

[jdlboot14]

It's real simple. Cam is going to start the season. BB isn't budging on that. Even if Mac looks better after preseason, Cam is going to start the first quarter at minimum. It's just the way BB does things. But, because I have full faith that Cam will basically be who he was last year, I do think Mac will get in by midseason, or if Cam gets the Foxboro Flu - so it can look respectful that he's not being benched too soon. I don't expect Mac to be great, but I agree with the idea that he may as well get his rookie bugs out now, rather than wasting another year next year as his first game experience. As for Gilmore, HT, DMC - I'd think they'd be happy, if Cam isn't maximizing this talented Offense, to see the kid given a chance especially if they're seeing good things in practice. As has been said - rookies have shown to be productive lately. And do we believe Alabama with Saban provides as good of a system for Mac to be as ready as Herbert or Burrow last year - with a full offseason too? Yes.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Amen. That data, in the mix against unknowns, doing unpredictable things, and seeing how both of them react to that - that is a coaching gold mine of relevant information for decision making purposes.

Great article from almost 20 years ago.

Bill has not changed one bit.

In the offseason and at the beginning of camp, Belichick insisted that Huard (5-1 in six career starts) was the No. 2 QB because “he’s won in this league, and that’s not easy to do.” When asked what changed his mind, Belichick said simply, “Four preseason games.”

Patriots make Brady No. 2 quarterback - The Boston Globe

Brady held Bill Belichick’s attention during training camp and exhibited great poise in four exhibition games.

www.bostonglobe.com

 

[PP2]

Yep. He's right there on passes but things like calling audibles, reading defenses, changing protections, avoiding sacks, burning blitzes, leading the huddle and being respected in the locker room.

From what I saw the day I was there, Mac has a real good jump on that. Every time Mac had a missed pass he'd go running to the receiver and talk to him. That's something I saw Brady do often, but Cam? Never.

Mac is doing all the little things that Cam just doesn't do. IMO, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Ok whew...don't get me confused with that. I don't think Cam is suddenly going to revert back to his best form. I just believe he can clean up his game with a proper offseason and upgraded weapons to be a a decent qb for us - this year.

I'm a Cam fan as much as I am a Mac fan. If Cam holds off a stud rookie for 1 year to earn one more big contract in free agency for himself that's an awesome story. If Mac beats out the resurging Cam - former NFL MVP to take helm of the Patriots...that's an awesome story. I'm here for both! Whichever happens!

I agree with all this, and I do hope to see him hit whatever his upside is. Personally, I am not at all invested in Mac getting out there, unless it's time for him to get out there (ultimately, the team's call, not mine). I'm rooting for the Pats, not Mac or Cam. We've all been saying this I guess, but it is the off-season, so we might as well say it a bunch of different ways, etc. Off season is so. lonnnnnng.

 

[RobertWeathers]

From what I saw the day I was there, Mac has a real good jump on that. Every time Mac had a missed pass he'd go running to the receiver and talk to him. That's something I saw Brady do often, but Cam? Never.

Mac is doing all the little things that Cam just doesn't do. IMO, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

Yep. Everything I've read corroborates your account.

 

[Sicilian]

Love to hear that, because a big back who can also catch is rare and super valuable from a mismatch standpoint. It's almost like having a tight end at running back.

BUT, for 2021, the key to Stevenson being that kind of player is less about how his hands look. It's more about whether he shows an aptitude and understanding of blitz pickup, and knows where to be on his routes (or when to sneak out of his blocking and find the open space), and what his timing is with his blockers on designed screens. Those are things that he's going to have to learn quickly if he's going to be an impact player in the passing game this year.

 

[amfootball]

I dunno the Dude, Mac is right behind Cam in TC. Its not like Cam is running away with it. And TB was in his 2nd year by 2001, he was a 6th round pick going up against a 1st round starter. Completely different situation.

I think Mac would do well if he started week 1, but I think he would also benefit from sitting and watching for a few games. So I think hes starter by week 6

I have a buddy that works close with the team. His take is Cam is way out ahead in terms of experience and knowing our offense and will only lengthen the divide in TC/preseason. Jones is making a ton of rookie mistakes understandably. My friend believes Cam will start the whole season barring injury.

I know. Friggin depressing.