David Andrews gets it

[State]

I watched or listened to every game of the Rod Rust year. 1990. I remember Brian Holloway walking off the field with his arm around Rust’s shoulders. Oddly touching.

But being a hard ass is the way to be successful.

I can only shake my head that JC Jackson can’t even show up at the team hotel in time. That shows a level of noncommitment that is positively Chris Canty-like.

 

[Clonamery]

Ah yes, the Patriot Way.

Good luck with that with the new generation of athletes.

Will. Not. Work.

It seems to work for Demario Douglas, among other young players.

 

[50-yard-line]

It seems to work for Demario Douglas, among other young players.

Sure. I'm generalizing. The superstars coming out of college are already professionals now - are making bank and dealing with agents and marketing people and all the rest. "A football life" is passe.


Gen Z, for the most part, learning from the experience of the Millennials, who are the first generation who will not be as successful as their parents, have decided that work isn't life - it's a subset of life.


Also, asking for sacrifice above and beyond requires an attainable goal.

 

[archstanton543]

Circumstances? What circumstances do we need to know? What special or mitigating circumstances should we expect to be surrounding this episode? We know he's 25... He's not a rookies... We know the team has a curfew on fridays... We know everyone else can make curfew...

so no, there really isn't a difference.

Something most have learned as teens... when dad says 10:00, he means 10:00 pm... not 10:01 pm... not 10:15 pm... and certainly not 3:30 am...

Unless I'm reading this wrong, and you know about some special dispensation Jack Jones should be accorded because hes "special"... If so, please share.

Bill's not their parent. They can and probably have tuned him out.

What think it comes down to is positive reinforcement vs. negative reinforcement. Case in point. BB said Boutte had a great week at practice, the kid goes on social media all hyped up to play, and he's a healthy scratch when the team desperately needs some kind od spark on offense specifically from the WR group. Negative reinforcement doesn't always work. It worked with Brady since BB would give him the same serving of **** he did to everyone else and they were winning.

Now, with different players from a different generation, that doesn't play, especially if you're losing. Judge, Phat Matt and McDaniels have tried the negative reinforcement hardo approach and have all gotten canned. Who did they learn that from?

 

[venecol]

The benchings don't bother me per se.

A strawman for you - I taught scuba for a decade... My first open water dive session with a class I thought it was going fine... Loose, fun etc... had another more experienced instructor walk up to me and take aside at the dive site and told me to get my act together because what I was doing was dangerous... At first I was like yeah, **** off buddy... More I thought about it though, he was right... Sat down with my dive masters and my old instructor after the class to figure out why he said what he said ... Hard Lesson learned. Insulting yes. Humiliating absolutely Yes. Bitter, yes. But, without a shred of doubt, a necessary life lesson to learn.

There is a reason why the motto of this team was/is Do your job. But that's not the whole motto. It's do your job well.

We are not at the same talent level we used to be. That particular tidbit is not germane though. What is is the need for players to act and behave accordingly. It's more important now than it ever was. And ultimately one of the bigger failures of BB this year - the lack of player leadership. Love Jack Jones ability ****ing hate that he's a weak minded simp who pouts when things don't go his way. Don't want to get benched? Earn it. That goes for every player on the 53.

Until he is fired, I pray BB will continue to hard ass these guys until they get it.

Except that these guys have been playing football their entire lives. They are professionals, not some HS or college kid. If you have a dude that hasn't played to the level you have, telling you how to play, it can become an issue. This isn't the first time we've heard these things coming out of Foxboro in the last few seasons.

The bottom line is that Bill's system isn't working with these players. The longer he coaches, the worse the results will be. He's not getting to these guys. I think there's no greater proof than the results we've seen the last few seasons.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Carroll produced playoff contenders in Seattle. Kraft himself confessed to mishandling Carroll.

Pete Carroll, Robert Kraft both benefited from difficult breakup

If key players weren't hurt, they win that playoff game versus the Steelers. Who knows they might have played in the SB that season.

 

[Pape]

Except that these guys have been playing football their entire lives. They are professionals, not some HS or college kid. If you have a dude that hasn't played to the level you have, telling you how to play, it can become an issue. This isn't the first time we've heard these things coming out of Foxboro in the last few seasons.

The bottom line is that Bill's system isn't working with these players. The longer he coaches, the worse the results will be. He's not getting to these guys. I think there's no greater proof than the results we've seen the last few seasons.

If the Professional Player needs to learn a lesson, I'm cool with it. If that equates to "BB can't relate" in yours or anyone elses mind, so be it. I cannot change that mindset because that is exactly what you want to see.

It still does not excuse player behavior when it puts them in the cross hairs. Not going to lay that at the feet of anybody else but the player because as you so eloquently stated "They have been playing football their entire lives. They are professionals."

 

[vicspats]

Explains Bryant’s snaps per game.

I agree. I’m sure the guy does everything he’s asked to do, he’s just not “great “ at anything.

 

[vicspats]

Ah yes, the Patriot Way.

Good luck with that with the new generation of athletes.

Will. Not. Work.

So if working hard, being accountable, showing up on time, staying late, listening and learning, getting treatment, following direction , having strong values, putting team first, don’t cause waves in the media, don’t talk crap about teammates, ect ect … doesn’t work …. What does ?? What type of person/athlete is left to fill out the roster?

 

[vicspats]

This isn't peewee football. These are grown ass men. Men can disagree w/o it becoming a federal crime. Unless, it's w/ Little Steve, then it's grounds for a benching.

At your job you can tell a superior to “ gfys” ? Just curious ..

 

[n1997y]

So if working hard, being accountable, showing up on time, staying late, listening and learning, getting treatment, following direction , having strong values, putting team first, don’t cause waves in the media, don’t talk crap about teammates, ect ect … doesn’t work …. What does ?? What type of person/athlete is left to fill out the roster?

JC Jackson
Jack Jones
Flash Gordon
Antonio Brown

 

[vicspats]

At some point these guys need to learn to act like professionals... if that means sitting out for two or three series for missing curfew, so be it. Lesson learned, hopefully. Has to learn his actions can and do have a harmful impact on his team mates.

As for the "generational gap" stuff, its just an excuse for poor behavior. You don't, or shouldn't, get a pass because you are a "different generation"... In this instance, Jack Jones is 25 years old... not 9... at a certain point its time to grow up. Maybe that just me who thinks that way...

When I was 18 I knew everything. When I turned 30 I realize I knew nothing. When I turned 50 I was amazed at how little I knew and how far I came.

 

[vicspats]

JC Jackson
Jack Jones
Flash Gordon
Antonio Brown

Hmmm… cbs and wrs

 

[upstater1]

Mike Holovak was '61(9 games)-'68 and was mostly pretty competitive - AFL Coach of the Year '64, '66.

Yes, I know, but I listed our NFL experience

 

[upstater1]

The benchings don't bother me per se.

A strawman for you - I taught scuba for a decade... My first open water dive session with a class I thought it was going fine... Loose, fun etc... had another more experienced instructor walk up to me and take me aside at the dive site and told me to get my act together because what I was doing was dangerous... At first I was like yeah, **** off buddy... More I thought about it though, he was right... Sat down with my dive masters and my old instructor after the class to figure out why he said what he said ... Hard Lesson learned. Insulting yes. Humiliating absolutely Yes. Bitter, yes. But, without a shred of doubt, a necessary life lesson to learn.

There is a reason why the motto of this team was/is Do your job. But that's not the whole motto. It's do your job well.

We are not at the same talent level we used to be. That particular tidbit is not germane though. What is is the need for players to act and behave accordingly. It's more important now than it ever was. And ultimately one of the bigger failures of BB this year - the lack of player leadership. Love Jack Jones ability ****ing hate that he's a weak minded simp who pouts when things don't go his way. Don't want to get benched? Earn it. That goes for every player on the 53.

Until he is fired, I pray BB will continue to hard ass these guys until they get it.

We'll never know how many games were won precisely because of this kind of discipline and how many games would've been lost without it.

You can argue until you're blue in the face that if only we had Malcolm Butler in 2017, we'd have won the SB, but no one can tell you if we would've lost any if the rest of the Super Bowl winners lacked a little discipline.

 

[upstater1]

Carroll produced playoff contenders in Seattle. Kraft himself confessed to mishandling Carroll.

Pete Carroll, Robert Kraft both benefited from difficult breakup

The kind of brain fart cluelessness we saw at the end of the 2014 Super Bowl was not a surprise to Patriot fans who watched him closely.

I remember one game where the Patriots were driving for a big comeback victory, we had the opposition pinned back and reeling after several great plays, and when Carroll was yelling at his players to call timeout, not only did Bledsoe ignore him, but you could see Terry Glenn smiling at him (same smile Marshawn Lynch gave Carroll after the Butler interception) and shaking his head right at Carroll 10 feet away from him as they were about to hike the ball. Pete got his timeout from the refs and the Patriots lost.

 

[n1997y]

Hmmm… cbs and wrs

The usual suspects. What other positions do the most egregious prima donnas ever play?

 

[Ring 6]

You did.

I understand you have a dual problem of an agenda and limited intellect, so I will be kind and explain.

When pointing out the inconsistency of
1) there is no need for off field discipline and
2) blaming coaching for on field lack of discipline
That could either mean (1) is wrong, which of course it is
Or (2) is wrong which you assume I meant in order to support your agenda.

 

[Ring 6]

And you never had a boss that the group didn't respect or respond to their leadership style?

Not because of age differences.

 

[Ring 6]

We don't know the circumstances surrounding the incident. Was he 5 minutes late or hours late? There is a difference.

what does that have to do with a generation issue?
Old people have to be less than 5 minutes late but young people can be 59 minutes?
Are you seriously arguing that someone paid millions of dollars to work half the year shouldn’t be expected to follow the rule all of his teammates follow and just show up on time?