David Andrews gets it

[RobertWeathers]

We had this experience before when the Patriots rejoiced in having a kinder coach when moving from Parcells to Carrol. Let's see if this can produce a playoff contender here. Hasn't really yet but we all live in a fantasy world now, so let's go for it.

Anytime I've heard , "The players love his coaching style" it was the kiss of death.

Now I'm not so sure that is true anymore.

 

[Pape]

This isn't peewee football. These are grown ass men. Men can disagree w/o it becoming a federal crime. Unless, it's w/ Little Steve, then it's grounds for a benching.

The benchings don't bother me per se.

A strawman for you - I taught scuba for a decade... My first open water dive session with a class I thought it was going fine... Loose, fun etc... had another more experienced instructor walk up to me and take me aside at the dive site and told me to get my act together because what I was doing was dangerous... At first I was like yeah, **** off buddy... More I thought about it though, he was right... Sat down with my dive masters and my old instructor after the class to figure out why he said what he said ... Hard Lesson learned. Insulting yes. Humiliating absolutely Yes. Bitter, yes. But, without a shred of doubt, a necessary life lesson to learn.

There is a reason why the motto of this team was/is Do your job. But that's not the whole motto. It's do your job well.

We are not at the same talent level we used to be. That particular tidbit is not germane though. What is is the need for players to act and behave accordingly. It's more important now than it ever was. And ultimately one of the bigger failures of BB this year - the lack of player leadership. Love Jack Jones ability ****ing hate that he's a weak minded simp who pouts when things don't go his way. Don't want to get benched? Earn it. That goes for every player on the 53.

Until he is fired, I pray BB will continue to hard ass these guys until they get it.

 

[archstanton543]

I just hope Andrew does have whatever took out Anderson and Klemm.

 

[archstanton543]

Until he is fired, I pray BB will continue to hard ass these guys until they get it.

Being a hardo can work if there's buy-in by the group. It works in a military setting (but not always). And it can work in other places too (like a construction site). But it doesn't work for every group.

There's also a quite large generation gap that needs to be bridged. I don't want to get into a discussion about how soft the younger generation is or isn't but, they're young men growing up in a different type of world than BB did. I'm not saying he should coddle them but a different approach is needed to get through to these guys. The hardo approach isn't working, clearly.

 

[Ring 6]

You don't understand.

performance doesn't matter.

What counts is attitude on a 2-8 team.

He has been late. So, he'll be cut and contribute elsewhere next year. jack Jones also. It is a matter of priorities. It is NOT putting the best team on the field each week. Rather it is putting the team that most respects Belichick and his rules. Ask Bourne, or a dozen others.

So putting the “best team on the field” means that disrespecting your teammates by breaking the rules that apply to everyone is fine.
It means that the guy who was so bad his team paid to get rid of him comes here, plays poorly, disrespects his teammates and now is abandoning his teammates to take a week off, and that’s the guy you want to say should be immune to the rules his teammates follow?
You are probably one of those guys who blames mental mistakes and lack of discipline on the field on the coaches allowing it. Funny.

 

[raduray]

We had this experience before when the Patriots rejoiced in having a kinder coach when moving from Parcells to Carrol. Let's see if this can produce a playoff contender here. Hasn't really yet but we all live in a fantasy world now, so let's go for it.

Carroll produced playoff contenders in Seattle. Kraft himself confessed to mishandling Carroll.

Pete Carroll, Robert Kraft both benefited from difficult breakup

 

[Ring 6]

This isn't peewee football. These are grown ass men. Men can disagree w/o it becoming a federal crime. Unless, it's w/ Little Steve, then it's grounds for a benching.

No organization is successful when people question the authority of structure.
Football is a team game, requiring great discipline.
Acting as a team and with discipline off the field enhances it happening on the field.
Players rely on each other on every play. If there are rules and some choose not to follow them, the ones with the right attitude will lose trust for those who do not.
It’s actually pretty simple, but you may just be someone who has never been part of something like that and don’t understand.

 

[Ring 6]

JC probably told Little Stevie to GFY. A big no-no in Foxsboro. Ask Malcolm.

Congratulations on making something up out of thin air and then supporting it with something else you made up out of thin air.
You are a legend in your own mind, adept at convincing yourself of what you made up.

 

[Pape]

Being a hardo can work if there's buy-in by the group. It works in a military setting (but not always). And it can work in other places too (like a construction site). But it doesn't work for every group.

There's also a quite large generation gap that needs to be bridged. I don't want to get into a discussion about how soft the younger generation is or isn't but, they're young men growing up in a different type of world than BB did. I'm not saying he should coddle them but a different approach is needed to get through to these guys. The hardo approach isn't working, clearly.

At some point these guys need to learn to act like professionals... if that means sitting out for two or three series for missing curfew, so be it. Lesson learned, hopefully. Has to learn his actions can and do have a harmful impact on his team mates.

As for the "generational gap" stuff, its just an excuse for poor behavior. You don't, or shouldn't, get a pass because you are a "different generation"... In this instance, Jack Jones is 25 years old... not 9... at a certain point its time to grow up. Maybe that just me who thinks that way...

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You are probably one of those guys who blames mental mistakes and lack of discipline on the field on the coaches allowing it. Funny.

No organization is successful when people question the authority of structure.
Football is a team game, requiring great discipline.
Acting as a team and with discipline off the field enhances it happening on the field.

Literally 5 minutes apart, in one post you argue that on field discipline has nothing to do with coaching, and in the other, to a different poster, you argue it does.

 

[archstanton543]

As for the "generational gap" stuff, its just an excuse for poor behavior. You don't, or shouldn't, get a pass because you are a "different generation"... In this instance, Jack Jones is 25 years old... not 9... at a certain point its time to grow up. Maybe that just me who thinks that way...

It's not though. How can a guy who's grown up with a smart phone and social media bring a big part of his life relate to a guy who can't set the clock n his car? How can the guy who can't set the clock in his car relate to the younger guy?

I'm in my 40's and I work with some kids in their 20's and even I have a hard time relating to them (and I've been a tech geek for a long while). Imagine being in your 70's and trying to do the same thing.

 

[Ring 6]

Literally 5 minutes apart, in one post you argue that on field discipline has nothing to do with coaching, and in the other, to a different poster, you argue it does.

Literally I did not.

I called the poster out for his inconsistency.

 

[Pape]

It's not though. How can a guy who's grown up with a smart phone and social media bring a big part of his life relate to a guy who can't set the clock n his car? How can the guy who can't set the clock in his car relate to the younger guy?

I'm in my 40's and I work with some kids in their 20's and even I have a hard time relating to them (and I've been a tech geek for a long while). Imagine being in your 70's and trying to do the same thing.

what does a mans "generation" have to do with being in at curfew?

What does a mans "generation" have to do with knowing and abiding by the rules set in their particular profession?

This isnt a hard concept to understand Arch.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Literally I did not.

I called the poster out for his inconsistency.

You did.

 

[Ring 6]

It's not though. How can a guy who's grown up with a smart phone and social media bring a big part of his life relate to a guy who can't set the clock n his car? How can the guy who can't set the clock in his car relate to the younger guy?

I'm in my 40's and I work with some kids in their 20's and even I have a hard time relating to them (and I've been a tech geek for a long while). Imagine being in your 70's and trying to do the same thing.

They aren’t dating, they are boss and employee.

 

[Ian]

It's not though. How can a guy who's grown up with a smart phone and social media bring a big part of his life relate to a guy who can't set the clock n his car? How can the guy who can't set the clock in his car relate to the younger guy?

I'm in my 40's and I work with some kids in their 20's and even I have a hard time relating to them (and I've been a tech geek for a long while). Imagine being in your 70's and trying to do the same thing.

It's like Belichick sort of said in one of his interviews, "teaching is teaching" and that's something that players still enjoy and are always impressed by when he starts talking X's and O's. They always talk about how much knowledge they get from working with him. This year, I think it still holds true. It just feels like the in-between is where the issue is.

Obviously, I feel like all of this goes back to the team building and the roster he put together, not his coaching (ie: X's and O's). If you're winning, it's easy to keep your head down and focus on getting better. When you've lost seven games with eight more to go, it's a different story. I'm sure it's tiring, and guys are questioning the point of it. I also think there's a group of guys who love what the game gives them and not the actual game itself, which is also slowly poisoning the pool to a certain extent.

That group tends to grow as things get worse, and that's going to be the challenge until Kraft either lets this play out so they can address it after the season, or makes a move.

 

[archstanton543]

They aren’t dating, they are boss and employee.

And you never had a boss that the group didn't respect or respond to their leadership style?

 

[archstanton543]

what does a mans "generation" have to do with being in at curfew?

What does a mans "generation" have to do with knowing and abiding by the rules set in their particular profession?

This isnt a hard concept to understand Arch.

We don't know the circumstances surrounding the incident. Was he 5 minutes late or hours late? There is a difference.

 

[turkeyneck]

Patriot experience with NFL coaches outside the big 4 (Fairbanks, Berry, Parcells, Belichick):

Holovak '67-'68
Rush '69-70
Mazur '70-71
Bengston '71-72

FAIRBANKS (6 Seasons)

Erhardt '79-81
Meyer '82-84

BERRY '84-89 (6 Seasons)

Rust '90
McPherson '91-92

PARCELLS '93-96 (4 Seasons)

Carroll '97-99

BELICHICK (24 Seasons)

In between our excellent coaches we seem to hire quite a few duds. And by duds I mean guys who can't even last more than 3 years.

Mike Holovak was '61(9 games)-'68 and was mostly pretty competitive - AFL Coach of the Year '64, '66.

 

[Pape]

We don't know the circumstances surrounding the incident. Was he 5 minutes late or hours late? There is a difference.

Circumstances? What circumstances do we need to know? What special or mitigating circumstances should we expect to be surrounding this episode? We know he's 25... He's not a rookies... We know the team has a curfew on fridays... We know everyone else can make curfew...

so no, there really isn't a difference.

Something most have learned as teens... when dad says 10:00, he means 10:00 pm... not 10:01 pm... not 10:15 pm... and certainly not 3:30 am...

Unless I'm reading this wrong, and you know about some special dispensation Jack Jones should be accorded because hes "special"... If so, please share.