Criticizing Belichick the GM

[Nehalem]

I wouldn’t call the ‘06 or ‘15 rosters “stocked”.

The 2006 Patriots went 12-4. Their main deficiency was at WR, where it should be pointed out BB drafted Chad Jackson in the 2nd round. In 2007 after revamping the WR core they went 16-0.

The 2015 Patriots started 10-0, before half the team got hurt. Not the Patriots were coming off a SB victory in 2014, and won again in 2016.

Do you have a different definition of the word stocked?

 

[SBLIII]

The 2006 Patriots went 12-4. Their main deficiency was at WR, where it should be pointed out BB drafted Chad Jackson in the 2nd round. In 2007 after revamping the WR core they went 16-0.

The 2015 Patriots started 10-0, before half the team got hurt. Not the Patriots were coming off a SB victory in 2014, and won again in 2016.

Do you have a different definition of the word stocked?

maybe he needs to see 17 pro bowlers before he uses the word stocked

 

[203Pat]

The 2006 Patriots went 12-4. Their main deficiency was at WR, where it should be pointed out BB drafted Chad Jackson in the 2nd round. In 2007 after revamping the WR core they went 16-0.

The 2015 Patriots started 10-0, before half the team got hurt. Not the Patriots were coming off a SB victory in 2014, and won again in 2016.

Do you have a different definition of the word stocked?

If you want to go by regular season wins then yes the team is always “stocked” but I thought we were trying to have an actual discussion instead of the standard “WE WON LOTS OF GAMES!” I will move along.

 

[203Pat]

The next infallible drafter will be the very first. But you knew that.

I didn’t claim any drafter to be infallible.

 

[Deus Irae]

If you want to go by regular season wins then yes the team is always “stocked” but I thought we were trying to have an actual discussion instead of the standard “WE WON LOTS OF GAMES!” I will move along.

A lot of the homers on this site can never have an actual discussion without the fallback of "Wins!". This has, sadly, been the case since somewhere around 2008-2009. It began to transition pretty heavily after the 2007 SB loss.

 

[Simpelton]

I didn’t claim any drafter to be infallible.

Yeah I was more backing up what yo were saying than contradicting you.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

A lot of the homers on this site can never have an actual discussion without the fallback of "Wins!". This has, sadly, been the case since somewhere around 2008-2009. It began to transition pretty heavily after the 2007 SB loss.

That's funny coming from you, because whenever there's any statistical-related discussion you're the first to ignore anything you disagree with and start mindlessly spewing "Wins!"

 

[shmessy]

A lot of the homers on this site can never have an actual discussion without the fallback of "Wins!". This has, sadly, been the case since somewhere around 2008-2009. It began to transition pretty heavily after the 2007 SB loss.

Ummm....isn't winning the objective?????

.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

If you want to go by regular season wins then yes the team is always “stocked” but I thought we were trying to have an actual discussion instead of the standard “WE WON LOTS OF GAMES!” I will move along.

6 rings!!!!!! Hindsight!
Why don't you work for an NFL team????!

 

[203Pat]

Yeah I was more backing up what yo were saying than contradicting you.

Sorry, I've been conditioned to defend myself for that post.

 

[Wordsmyth]

Belichick is really good but he's still a notch bellow The Master of the Seven Defenses: ''One Eyed'' William Nobeard

View attachment 24960

ARGH! WE'RE ONTO BALTIMORE, ME SCURVIES!

 

[203Pat]

Ummm....isn't winning the objective?????

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It is. Once again the same posters that praised Brady in the past for winning with a seemly lesser supporting cast while chastising Peyton Manning for not winning enough when surrounded by Pro Bowlers are the same posters who now claim every single Patriots roster has been "stocked".
When engaging in a discussion about which rosters have been better than others a little common sense is expected. Obviously we are speaking in relative terms. Is the roster of a team that went 12-4 better than the roster of a team that went 4-12? In all likelihood yes 99% of the time. But obviously that isn't what anyone is saying. What is being said is that there have been some obviously "stocked" Patriots rosters (2003, 2004, 2007, 2014, 2016, 2017) and then there have been some that were lacking a good amount of weapons/playmakers etc (2006, 2013, 2015). Even our worst rosters will roll out of bed to double digit wins because of Bill and Brady so to say that every roster was "stocked" because the team wins goes against the spirit of the discussion.

 

[moosekill]

There should be no difference of opinion on either Dawson or Jones. They were flat out busts. Not underachievers or victims of circumstance, just flat out bad picks.

Flat out busts aren't still in the league. Flat out busts are pouring coffee at Starbucks.

 

[JMC00]

I’m most disappointed at last years draft missing out on Lamar Jackson. Patriots were very very high on him, yet passed on him not once but TWICE. We would have been set up for the next ten years post Brady because Jackson is a stud. That was our future franchise QB.

With real speculation of Brady either leaving or retiring, we need to find that next QB to keep our head above water, Stidham is NOT the answer.

Hindsight is 20-20 but it realistically could and should have happened given Brady’s age.

Lamar Jackson would be a JAG running the offensive system the Pats run.

 

[SBLIII]

Lamar Jackson would be a JAG running the offensive system the Pats run.

We would have to adjust our offensive scheme.

 

[203Pat]

Flat out busts aren't still in the league. Flat out busts are pouring coffee at Starbucks.

 

[moosekill]

Lamar Jackson would be a JAG running the offensive system the Pats run.

I agree. We should go down a list of the running qb's that come into the league every few years, get hurt then are gone. Let's see how many superbowls Lamar wins before we anoint him the next Tom Brady, or more likely RG3.

 

[moosekill]

There is a difference between bad draft picks and flat out busts. Players drafted at the end of the second round who make a team and are in the league, may have been a bad pick, but are simply not Flat out busts. If you can't understand that, you probably shouldn't be posting.

 

[shmessy]

It is. Once again the same posters that praised Brady in the past for winning with a seemly lesser supporting cast while chastising Peyton Manning for not winning enough when surrounded by Pro Bowlers are the same posters who now claim every single Patriots roster has been "stocked".
When engaging in a discussion about which rosters have been better than others a little common sense is expected. Obviously we are speaking in relative terms. Is the roster of a team that went 12-4 better than the roster of a team that went 4-12? In all likelihood yes 99% of the time. But obviously that isn't what anyone is saying. What is being said is that there have been some obviously "stocked" Patriots rosters (2003, 2004, 2007, 2014, 2016, 2017) and then there have been some that were lacking a good amount of weapons/playmakers etc (2006, 2013, 2015). Even our worst rosters will roll out of bed to double digit wins because of Bill and Brady so to say that every roster was "stocked" because the team wins goes against the spirit of the discussion.

I, honestly, want to understand what you are saying here.

Are you employing the word "stocked" meaning measurable "talented"? If so, there are several Cincy Bengals and Dallas Cowboys teams of the past 2 decades that were "stocked". Cleveland, this year, is still consider "stocked".

IIRC, Belichick has actually come out and said in public something to the effect of "We are not collecting talent, we are trying to assemble the best team mix..."

People look at it differently. It seems BB has a different mindset than the rest of the league. I'm not sure if it's still the same situation, but years ago, the Patriots used to be the only team not subscribing to the same draft ratings program that the other 31 employed. They were LITERALLY off the grid.

Very simply, BB has been using a different language than the other 31. If judging by their standardized matrix, yes, his system will not translate.

.

 

[203Pat]

There is a difference between bad draft picks and flat out busts. Players drafted at the end of the second round who make a team and are in the league, may have been a bad pick, but are simply not Flat out busts. If you can't understand that, you probably shouldn't be posting.

Lol maybe you should up your standards or stop posting. A second round pick should be in a position to start within their first few years in the league. Jones was never a starting caliber from the minute he showed up. He couldn’t even make it as a punt returner. I’m embarrassed for you if you don’t think Duke Dawson was a bust. He never played a snap for us, was a healthy scratch for half his rookie year, and was traded for peanuts in his second training camp. But hey he’s still a reserve player for a completely different team so he’s an adequate second round pick!