Criticizing Belichick the GM

[patsinthesnow]

A few takes come to mind when evaluating BB the GM:

No Team Can Beat the Draft

• One could argue that there isn't one team that drafts well (over a big enough sample size). While there is enough data to support that check out a team's draft history & most likely you'll be saying miss more often than hit.
  
  
• Belichick's trade steals as well as the amount of trades he makes outweigh the misses. Jason McCourty & Kyle Van Noy for late round pick swaps are all time trades. Trent Brown for a mid-round pick swap has arguably been a home run. These are just some trades in the last few years. Making the most trades in the league (along with being the best coach to coach them up) allows these trades to happen. That's why a Bodine whiff isn't really a big deal.

• The Pats UDFA history is nearly unprecedented & the best in the NFL - Malcolm Butler, David Andrews, Jonathan Jones, Adam Butler, JC Jackson, etc. These aren't just role players. They are players that would go in the first two rounds in a redraft.

I’ll take the elite success rate with trades & UDFAs along with what may be an average to below average success rate with the draft in recent years.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

A few takes come to mind when evaluating BB the GM:

No Team Can Beat the Draft

• One could argue that there isn't one team that drafts well (over a big enough sample size). While there is enough data to support that check out a team's draft history & most likely you'll be saying miss more often than hit.
  
  
• Belichick's trade steals as well as the amount of trades he makes outweigh the misses. Jason McCourty & Kyle Van Noy for late round pick swaps are all time trades. Trent Brown & Danny Shelton for mid-round pick swaps have been arguably home runs. These are just some trades in the last few years. Making the most trades in the league (along with being the best coach to coach them up) allows these trades to happen. That's why a Bodine whiff isn't really a big deal.

• The Pats UDFA history is nearly unprecedented & the best in the NFL - Malcolm Butler, David Andrews, Jonathan Jones, Adam Butler, JC Jackson, etc. These aren't just role players. They are players that would go in the first two rounds in a redraft.

I’ll take the elite success rate with trades & UDFAs along with what may be an average to below average success rate with the draft in recent years.

Excellent excellent post.

A couple more undrafted guys, and if you count low picks. Edelman, Brady, Jacobi Meyer, Develin, Burkhead

 

[Deus Irae]

A few takes come to mind when evaluating BB the GM:

No Team Can Beat the Draft

• One could argue that there isn't one team that drafts well (over a big enough sample size). While there is enough data to support that check out a team's draft history & most likely you'll be saying miss more often than hit.
  
  
• Belichick's trade steals as well as the amount of trades he makes outweigh the misses. Jason McCourty & Kyle Van Noy for late round pick swaps are all time trades. Trent Brown & Danny Shelton for mid-round pick swaps have been arguably home runs. These are just some trades in the last few years. Making the most trades in the league (along with being the best coach to coach them up) allows these trades to happen. That's why a Bodine whiff isn't really a big deal.

• The Pats UDFA history is nearly unprecedented & the best in the NFL - Malcolm Butler, David Andrews, Jonathan Jones, Adam Butler, JC Jackson, etc. These aren't just role players. They are players that would go in the first two rounds in a redraft.

I’ll take the elite success rate with trades & UDFAs along with what may be an average to below average success rate with the draft in recent years.

Come on. When you're calling the Shelton trade an arguable home run, you're making your entire argument a garbage argument. The Shelton trade was a total bust.

It was only after his deal ended, and he was a UFA, that he got his ass into game shape and became an NFL level player worth having.

 

[Sicilian]

BB is a good drafter. He just isn't infallible as some seem to think.

Literally no one thinks that.

 

[203Pat]

Excellent excellent post.

A couple more undrafted guys, and if you count low picks. Edelman, Brady, Jacobi Meyer, Develin, Burkhead

Burkhead was a FA from Cincinnati.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Come on. When you're calling the Shelton trade an arguable home run, you're making your entire argument a garbage argument. The Shelton trade was a total bust.

It was only after his deal ended, and he was a UFA, that he got his ass into game shape and became an NFL level player worth having.

He played great in the biggest game in 2018. I don't think that makes my other points garbage but thanks for the input. I revised the post to not include him.

 

[203Pat]

Literally no one thinks that.

When people defend the Cyrus Jones and Duke Dawson picks I would assume someone literally thinks that.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

I’m most disappointed at last years draft missing out on Lamar Jackson. Patriots were very very high on him, yet passed on him not once but TWICE. We would have been set up for the next ten years post Brady because Jackson is a stud. That was our future franchise QB.

With real speculation of Brady either leaving or retiring, we need to find that next QB to keep our head above water, Stidham is NOT the answer.

Hindsight is 20-20 but it realistically could and should have happened given Brady’s age.

 

[Sicilian]

When people defend the Cyrus Jones and Duke Dawson picks I would assume someone literally thinks that.

That's not what that means. It means they have a different opinion on those players (and how to evaluate the reasoning behind the picks/cuts/etc). Find me a person who thinks BB has never made a bad move and I'll laugh at them with you. Disagreeing on individual instances doesn't mean suddenly they can't view any other moves as bad.

 

[203Pat]

That's not what that means. It means they have a different opinion on those players (and how to evaluate the reasoning behind the picks/cuts/etc). Find me a person who thinks BB has never made a bad move and I'll laugh at them with you. Disagreeing on individual instances doesn't mean suddenly they can't view any other moves as bad.

There should be no difference of opinion on either Dawson or Jones. They were flat out busts. Not underachievers or victims of circumstance, just flat out bad picks.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I think fans put more weight on the draft than Belichick does.
To him it's always been one of 3 ways to acquire talent.
I also think how hard it must be to draft a player to become part of the
ultimate teams in all of sports ... much harder than drafting for a crap team.

 

[shmessy]

I don't like his lip kissing after SB wins.

.

 

[SBLIII]

Come on. When you're calling the Shelton trade an arguable home run, you're making your entire argument a garbage argument. The Shelton trade was a total bust.

It was only after his deal ended, and he was a UFA, that he got his ass into game shape and became an NFL level player worth having.

He just included the Shelton trade to make the accomplishments look more impressive.

 

[SBLIII]

Agree to disagree. Post our last 5 drafts, an incredible amount of high misses in first 3 rounds

Mason
Thuney
Jones
Jackson
Michel
Wise
Winovich
etc.

have been part of our last 5 draft classes all who already helped us win games and Super Bowls

 

[Sicilian]

There should be no difference of opinion on either Dawson or Jones. They were flat out busts. Not underachievers or victims of circumstance, just flat out bad picks.

Both are still playing in the league. If you want to argue they shouldn't, that's fine. People who run actual NFL teams disagree with you. At the very least, that makes the point ARGUABLE. But in your world, disagreeing with you is apparently unacceptable.

By the way, I don't even think they're good players. I just think it's ridiculous to use two cherry picked examples as some sign that someone, ANYONE thinks BB has been perfect.

 

[shmessy]

Mason
Thuney
Jones
Jackson
Michel
Wise
Winovich
etc.

have been part of our last 5 draft classes all who already helped us win games and Super Bowls

Wasn't Jackson a UDRFA?

.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Mason
Thuney
Jones
Jackson
Michel
Wise
Winovich
etc.

have been part of our last 5 draft classes all who already helped us win games and Super Bowls

Mason and Thuney are good players
2 guards though are your best players you’ve gotten in a combined 5 drafts?

Wino looks like a major player, that’s good we needed someone from this class to step up

Sony is so mediocre, passed up on Chubb
Wise stinks
JC Jackson went undrafted so doesn’t count, he is terrific though
Jones undrafted again doesn’t count

Not one decent skill position player from the past 5 drafts? Unless you count Sony, who I am not impressed with long term at all. And we passed up on his far superior generational talented college teammate.


What about all the misses? Check rounds 1-3 in 2015-2019. A ton of misses. Non contributors, injured players

B.B. drafted Brady, and 5 superstars from the 2009-2013 drafts that paved the way for these titles.

Long term we could be in trouble when Brady retires

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Let me tell you something. I have first hand knowledge that Coach Bill is Cat like quick!!!!

 

[SBLIII]

I’m most disappointed at last years draft missing out on Lamar Jackson. Patriots were very very high on him, yet passed on him not once but TWICE. We would have been set up for the next ten years post Brady because Jackson is a stud. That was our future franchise QB.

With real speculation of Brady either leaving or retiring, we need to find that next QB to keep our head above water, Stidham is NOT the answer.

Hindsight is 20-20 but it realistically could and should have happened given Brady’s age.

nobody knows/knew when Brady retires.

With Brady having intention to play until he is 45 and coming off a MVP season there was/would be a real chance that Lamar would have sat on the bench through his entire rookie deal.

If you draft a QB early you need them to play when they are cheap

 

[Froob]

Bill has some **** ups, especially in the secondary in the draft, but he more than makes up for it (especially poaching no name vets from other squads).