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Criticizing Belichick the GM

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by p8ryts, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. XLIX

    XLIX Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Bill Belichick the Coach: "Thank you so much for your kind words, but the number 1 reason I have 300 wins is because I have been so fortunate to have great players on my teams..."

    Bill Belichick the GM: "Well, the reason I have so much success as a GM is because the coaching staff we have in place is so brilliant..."

    :D
     
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  2. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If Brady leaves us after this year, we are screwed. Stidham ain’t ready and may never be, and if we’re forced to start a JAG, we could be looking at an 8-8 year next year.
     
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  3. patfanken

    patfanken PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If that article was garbage, then so was your comment.

    BTW- it's not like the article wasn't flawed, it was. Like most discussions on the VERY complex job of building and REbuilding what amounts to a different team every single year, posters and writers have all too often tried to simplify it into black and white perimeters.

    There are just so many factors that play into the job that BB does, that the success and failure of INDIVIDUAL decisions don't really matter in the great scheme of things. The bottom line is what THAT season's team produces. Will it have the talent, the chemistry, the mental toughness, the resiliency to overcome adversity, and the luck (yes that's a factor too) to compete for a championship on a year in and year out basis. I should be noted that "talent" is just only ONE of the many factors that factor into the whole of the equation.

    But lets discuss that ONE dimension further. Because you can break down that even further to Bill the college talent evaluator and Bill the NFL talent evaluator. Overall I think Bill does a better at the latter job, but both are obviously important.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that WHATEVER the "secret sauce" is that has allowed the Pats to continue this 20 year run of UNPRECEDENTED success, it is a culmination of so many different things that cannot be explained in full without factoring in so many other ingredients. Maybe a better way to say it is, you cannot write a definitive "book"on what makes this work. It has to be an ENCYCLOPEDIA

    So there in lies my criticism of your remark. It was too dismissive, too flippant. It is something that you could say about anything written about the Pats, because it will ALWAYS be found wanting due to brevity and incompleteness.

    Am I making any sense here, or am I just stringing together words. ;)
     
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  4. 203Pat

    203Pat In the Starting Line-Up

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    Sorry but to most reasonable people just "playing in the league" a few years after being a second round pick makes you a bust. It also makes you a bad pick when you're "just playing in the league" for another team, especially when you're traded from the team that drafted you in your second training camp.
     
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  5. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    B.B. is the best gm of all time in trading, free agency, and undrafted free agents.

    He’s very hot and cold in the draft

    Hot 2000-2005

    Cold 2006-2008

    Very hot 2009-2014

    Very cold 2015-2019
     
  6. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When a supremely talented QB drops to the end of the first round and you’re starting QB is 42 years old and you have TWO selections, you take that QB!

    Stidham is a JAG
     
  7. SBLIII

    SBLIII In the Starting Line-Up

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    possible. But it still doesn't equate to terrible drafting when we are always picking late each round, trade some picks away for established players etc.

    We do lack young talent though and it could catch up to us starting next year.
     
  8. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why did J.C. Jackson go undrafted?
     
  9. SBLIII

    SBLIII In the Starting Line-Up

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    Brady was 40, not 42 at the time of the 2018 draft.
     
  10. Sicilian

    Sicilian Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Then we have fundamental philosophical differences on what draft picks mean. Good day.
     
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  11. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you're disagreeing about Jones or Dawson, you're exposing your complete lack of understanding of either the meaning of "Bust" or football personnel. In either case, if you can't acknowledge those players as Patriots busts, your draft evaluation opinion is worthless. It would be the same, in the opposite direction, if someone were to call the Seymour pick, or Wilfork pick, for a couple of examples, a bust.

    Some players are just obvious.
     
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  12. SBLIII

    SBLIII In the Starting Line-Up

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    Jackson was seen as a project. I would have loved the pick but he wasn't a can't miss prospect.
     
  13. Hyped

    Hyped PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In BB, I trust. (Drinks Kool Aid)
     
  14. Sicilian

    Sicilian Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    A rather patronizing take. Consider me done with this conversation.
     
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  15. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal Weekly Picks Winner

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    per Doug Kyed:

    The reasons JC Jackson went undrafted weren’t football related. He was arrested and ultimately found not guilty of armed robbery in 2015. That’s why he was dismissed from the University of Florida, played a season at Riverside Community College and ultimately transferred to the University of Maryland. Without those legal issues, Jackson certainly would have been drafted.

    Patriots Mailbag: How Did Rookie Cornerback JC Jackson Go Undrafted?

    so lots of GMs bought into "there's a lot of smoke, maybe there is fire" argument, despite the not guilty verdict.

    His measurables were fine

    *J.C. Jackson, Maryland, CB, 2018 Draft Scout, DraftScout.com/NFL Draft Scout
     
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  16. nabwong

    nabwong Vice President of Boycott NFL Club PatsFans.com Supporter Weekly Picks Winner

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    Nobody hits 100% in the draft but BB is higher than most. As someone whose job is to identify and nurture talent, I can tell you that it's a numbers game. BB has done a great job in a few areas such as clarifying short and long term roles and identifying the fit based on talent and availability in the draft. He also understands the financial part of team building. You cannot predict how talent in college will transfer to talent in the NFL. The most underrated part of BB's strength is he seems immune to sunk cost fallacy.... except Jordan Richards. Like wtf BB.
     
  17. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The colds were years where it was much harder to draft players to a
    stocked team who would fit in and/or were useful enough to occupy a roster spot.
     
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  18. 203Pat

    203Pat In the Starting Line-Up

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    I wouldn’t call the ‘06 or ‘15 rosters “stocked”.
     
  19. Simpelton

    Simpelton In the Starting Line-Up

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    The next infallible drafter will be the very first. But you knew that.
     
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  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Exactly

    Not all UDFAs or "sliders" are alike. Sometimes it's just about what baggage you're willing to take on, not a talent evaluation matter. Christian Peter (Not a BB pick, but just for illustrative purposes) is an example of that in the other direction. The Patriots cut him about 30 seconds after they drafted him, and nobody would touch him in his rookie year. But, after that, he went on to a 6 year NFL career.

    So, if people want to seriously analyze a GM, they've got to actually analyze seriously, and not just toss out surface commentary. And some stuff we just won't have enough information on, no matter how hard we look for it.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019

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