PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Criticizing Belichick the GM


Status
Not open for further replies.
Bill Belichick the Coach: "Thank you so much for your kind words, but the number 1 reason I have 300 wins is because I have been so fortunate to have great players on my teams..."

Bill Belichick the GM: "Well, the reason I have so much success as a GM is because the coaching staff we have in place is so brilliant..."

:D
 
nobody knows/knew when Brady retires.

With Brady having intention to play until he is 45 and coming off a MVP season there was/would be a real chance that Lamar would have sat on the bench through his entire rookie deal.

If you draft a QB early you need them to play when they are cheap

If Brady leaves us after this year, we are screwed. Stidham ain’t ready and may never be, and if we’re forced to start a JAG, we could be looking at an 8-8 year next year.
 
The article is garbage
If that article was garbage, then so was your comment.

BTW- it's not like the article wasn't flawed, it was. Like most discussions on the VERY complex job of building and REbuilding what amounts to a different team every single year, posters and writers have all too often tried to simplify it into black and white perimeters.

There are just so many factors that play into the job that BB does, that the success and failure of INDIVIDUAL decisions don't really matter in the great scheme of things. The bottom line is what THAT season's team produces. Will it have the talent, the chemistry, the mental toughness, the resiliency to overcome adversity, and the luck (yes that's a factor too) to compete for a championship on a year in and year out basis. I should be noted that "talent" is just only ONE of the many factors that factor into the whole of the equation.

But lets discuss that ONE dimension further. Because you can break down that even further to Bill the college talent evaluator and Bill the NFL talent evaluator. Overall I think Bill does a better at the latter job, but both are obviously important.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that WHATEVER the "secret sauce" is that has allowed the Pats to continue this 20 year run of UNPRECEDENTED success, it is a culmination of so many different things that cannot be explained in full without factoring in so many other ingredients. Maybe a better way to say it is, you cannot write a definitive "book"on what makes this work. It has to be an ENCYCLOPEDIA

So there in lies my criticism of your remark. It was too dismissive, too flippant. It is something that you could say about anything written about the Pats, because it will ALWAYS be found wanting due to brevity and incompleteness.

Am I making any sense here, or am I just stringing together words. ;)
 
Both are still playing in the league. If you want to argue they shouldn't, that's fine. People who run actual NFL teams disagree with you. At the very least, that makes the point ARGUABLE. But in your world, disagreeing with you is apparently unacceptable.

By the way, I don't even think they're good players. I just think it's ridiculous to use two cherry picked examples as some sign that someone, ANYONE thinks BB has been perfect.
Sorry but to most reasonable people just "playing in the league" a few years after being a second round pick makes you a bust. It also makes you a bad pick when you're "just playing in the league" for another team, especially when you're traded from the team that drafted you in your second training camp.
 
B.B. is the best gm of all time in trading, free agency, and undrafted free agents.

He’s very hot and cold in the draft

Hot 2000-2005

Cold 2006-2008

Very hot 2009-2014

Very cold 2015-2019
 
nobody knows/knew when Brady retires.

With Brady having intention to play until he is 45 and coming off a MVP season there was/would be a real chance that Lamar would have sat on the bench through his entire rookie deal.

If you draft a QB early you need them to play when they are cheap

When a supremely talented QB drops to the end of the first round and you’re starting QB is 42 years old and you have TWO selections, you take that QB!

Stidham is a JAG
 
If Brady leaves us after this year, we are screwed. Stidham ain’t ready and may never be, and if we’re forced to start a JAG, we could be looking at an 8-8 year next year.

possible. But it still doesn't equate to terrible drafting when we are always picking late each round, trade some picks away for established players etc.

We do lack young talent though and it could catch up to us starting next year.
 
He played great in the biggest game in 2018. I don't think that makes my other points garbage but thanks for the input. I revised the post to not include him.

Why did J.C. Jackson go undrafted?
 
When a supremely talented QB drops to the end of the first round and you’re starting QB is 42 years old and you have TWO selections, you take that QB!

Stidham is a JAG

Brady was 40, not 42 at the time of the 2018 draft.
 
Sorry but to most reasonable people just "playing in the league" a few years after being a second round pick makes you a bust. It also makes you a bad pick when you're "just playing in the league" for another team, especially when you're traded from the team that drafted you in your second training camp.

Then we have fundamental philosophical differences on what draft picks mean. Good day.
 
That's not what that means. It means they have a different opinion on those players (and how to evaluate the reasoning behind the picks/cuts/etc). Find me a person who thinks BB has never made a bad move and I'll laugh at them with you. Disagreeing on individual instances doesn't mean suddenly they can't view any other moves as bad.

If you're disagreeing about Jones or Dawson, you're exposing your complete lack of understanding of either the meaning of "Bust" or football personnel. In either case, if you can't acknowledge those players as Patriots busts, your draft evaluation opinion is worthless. It would be the same, in the opposite direction, if someone were to call the Seymour pick, or Wilfork pick, for a couple of examples, a bust.

Some players are just obvious.
 
When a supremely talented QB drops to the end of the first round and you’re starting QB is 42 years old and you have TWO selections, you take that QB!

Stidham is a JAG

Jackson was seen as a project. I would have loved the pick but he wasn't a can't miss prospect.
 
In BB, I trust. (Drinks Kool Aid)
 
If you're disagreeing about Jones or Dawson, you're exposing your complete lack of understanding of either the meaning of "Bust" or football personnel. In either case, if you can't acknowledge those players as Patriots busts, your draft evaluation opinion is worthless. It would be the same, in the opposite direction, if someone were to call the Seymour pick, or Wilfork pick, for a couple of examples, a bust.

Some players are just obvious.

A rather patronizing take. Consider me done with this conversation.
 
Why did J.C. Jackson go undrafted?
per Doug Kyed:

The reasons JC Jackson went undrafted weren’t football related. He was arrested and ultimately found not guilty of armed robbery in 2015. That’s why he was dismissed from the University of Florida, played a season at Riverside Community College and ultimately transferred to the University of Maryland. Without those legal issues, Jackson certainly would have been drafted.

Patriots Mailbag: How Did Rookie Cornerback JC Jackson Go Undrafted?

so lots of GMs bought into "there's a lot of smoke, maybe there is fire" argument, despite the not guilty verdict.

His measurables were fine

*J.C. Jackson, Maryland, CB, 2018 Draft Scout, DraftScout.com/NFL Draft Scout
 
Nobody hits 100% in the draft but BB is higher than most. As someone whose job is to identify and nurture talent, I can tell you that it's a numbers game. BB has done a great job in a few areas such as clarifying short and long term roles and identifying the fit based on talent and availability in the draft. He also understands the financial part of team building. You cannot predict how talent in college will transfer to talent in the NFL. The most underrated part of BB's strength is he seems immune to sunk cost fallacy.... except Jordan Richards. Like wtf BB.
 
B.B. is the best gm of all time in trading, free agency, and undrafted free agents.

He’s very hot and cold in the draft

Hot 2000-2005

Cold 2006-2008

Very hot 2009-2014

Very cold 2015-2019
The colds were years where it was much harder to draft players to a
stocked team who would fit in and/or were useful enough to occupy a roster spot.
 
The colds were years where it was much harder to draft players to a
stocked team who would fit in and/or were useful enough to occupy a roster spot.
I wouldn’t call the ‘06 or ‘15 rosters “stocked”.
 
BB is a good drafter. He just isn't infallible as some seem to think.
The next infallible drafter will be the very first. But you knew that.
 
per Doug Kyed:

The reasons JC Jackson went undrafted weren’t football related. He was arrested and ultimately found not guilty of armed robbery in 2015. That’s why he was dismissed from the University of Florida, played a season at Riverside Community College and ultimately transferred to the University of Maryland. Without those legal issues, Jackson certainly would have been drafted.

Patriots Mailbag: How Did Rookie Cornerback JC Jackson Go Undrafted?

so lots of GMs bought into "there's a lot of smoke, maybe there is fire" argument, despite the not guilty verdict.

His measurables were fine

*J.C. Jackson, Maryland, CB, 2018 Draft Scout, DraftScout.com/NFL Draft Scout

Exactly

Not all UDFAs or "sliders" are alike. Sometimes it's just about what baggage you're willing to take on, not a talent evaluation matter. Christian Peter (Not a BB pick, but just for illustrative purposes) is an example of that in the other direction. The Patriots cut him about 30 seconds after they drafted him, and nobody would touch him in his rookie year. But, after that, he went on to a 6 year NFL career.

So, if people want to seriously analyze a GM, they've got to actually analyze seriously, and not just toss out surface commentary. And some stuff we just won't have enough information on, no matter how hard we look for it.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.


MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Back
Top