Could Trey Flowers Be Tagged?

[zimmy]

the other downside by using the tag is that it sets a floor for any subsequent deal. If we tag him, Flowers' agent will start the negotiations at $37m over the first two years (tag cost and tag+20%). That's way above what the Pats will want to pay.

If you are willing to pay Flowers $17m on average it makes sense simply to let him hit the market and see how it shakes out. It's unlikely anyone offers him more than $17m per year in my view. He may come back if you can just get in the ballpark.

 

[BobDigital]

I think they have to keep him. I hate to spend that kind of money on a player but this Patriots team need stars. Flowers is a star caliber pro bowl player. He doesn't have a pro bowl reputation yet but he will have one next year I think.

The number is my mind is 14M if they can get it. I just don't want them to pay 15M for him. It is just so much of their cap space for a non-QB who isn't a top 20 defensive player IMO

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

Not Jones in Arizona, but I’d say Jones in New England is arguable.

Chandler was very good, but inconsistent here. Didn’t stop the run very well, and faded down the stretch in the postseason.

Flowers is the exact opposite of those things. Better player? I’m not sure. But Flowers is far more valuable here than Jones ever was in New England.

But he can line up anywhere. Jones is a better ED, but 17m is not a lot for Trey.

If Gronk and DMac are gone. They have north 37m

I would like to see this moves:

Cap situation 19/20/21 - 7m cushion all seasons already accounted for - So 2019 would be 13m - 7m cushion
19 - $6,253,542
20 - $17,074,096 ( Edelman/KVN/Butler/ Thuney)
21 - $47,447,290 (Harmon/White/JC Jackson/ Andrews/Guy)

Extend Brady: 20/31/31
Extend D. Allen: 4/4.5/5
Cut Clayborn saves 4m
Sign Gost 4/4/4
Sign R. Allen 2.75/2.75/2.75
Sign Malcom Brown 3/3.5/4
Sign Waddle 1.75
Sign Hill 805k
Sign Dorsett 3/3.5/4
Sign Humber 805k
Sign Simon 1.5/1.75
Sign McClellan 1.3/1.7
Sign Flowers 12/14/17/18.5/19.5/21
Sign T Brown 9/10/12.5/13.5/15
Sign C. Hollister ERFA
Sign JJ 1.9/2.2/2.5

Total: 58 players so cap will increase when players are cut

 

[Caretaker]

Count me in "Keep Flowers for reasonable money" camp, tag included.
On a sidenote, oh how I wish we kept Chandler Jones. We used to think we'll keep 3 out of 4 (HT, Chandler, Butler and Collins /after Revis cut/). And now, 2-3 years later, the roster is unrecognizable on defense

 

[TheRainMaker]

I could see him getting tagged. I think he’s in for a big game for the Super Bowl as he knows he’s auditioning for every Front Office Executive. If he doesn’t get tagged and the Pats can’t match the offer, I see him going to SF. Although Shanahan and Lynch are under the “5 year plan”, they’re getting a little hot under the collar after their two big high draft pick failures of Soloman Thomas and Ruben Foster and a wasted season with Jimmy G injured.

 

[ALP]

first we have to answer the question: is Flowers better than Chandler?

If flowers is not better than chandler, and we let chandler go, we will certainly let Flowers go no?

If flowers is better than chandler, then we can dive deeper, maybe ask would Flowers accept 17M/yr for 4 years? I think the answer is yes, so why would we not want to do that instead of tag for 17M/year?

I don't see the tag happening because if we're willing to give tag him for 17M/yr, we are certainly willing to pay him 17M/yr in 2/3/4 years from now when the cap will be even higher

its long term deal or nothing

 

[n1997y]

I think it’s overly simplistic to look at it as if we let Chandler go purely on the basis of how good he was/is. There are a couple of other factors. Big one, how does he take coaching and play a disciplined role. Another is the off-field baggage. Flowers seems asafe bet to remain fully clothed and avoid early morning displays in the Foxboro PD parking lot. Things like that do count with BB and the FO.

So, the answer to that question is NO, we don’t have to let Flowers go even if Chandler was better (and that is arguable at best).

first we have to answer the question: is Flowers better than Chandler?

If flowers is not better than chandler, and we let chandler go, we will certainly let Flowers go no?

If flowers is better than chandler, then we can dive deeper, maybe ask would Flowers accept 17M/yr for 4 years? I think the answer is yes, so why would we not want to do that instead of tag for 17M/year?

I don't see the tag happening because if we're willing to give tag him for 17M/yr, we are certainly willing to pay him 17M/yr in 2/3/4 years from now when the cap will be even higher

its long term deal or nothing

 

[supafly]

first we have to answer the question: is Flowers better than Chandler?

If flowers is not better than chandler, and we let chandler go, we will certainly let Flowers go no?

If flowers is better than chandler, then we can dive deeper, maybe ask would Flowers accept 17M/yr for 4 years? I think the answer is yes, so why would we not want to do that instead of tag for 17M/year?

I don't see the tag happening because if we're willing to give tag him for 17M/yr, we are certainly willing to pay him 17M/yr in 2/3/4 years from now when the cap will be even higher

its long term deal or nothing

I’m no expert, but I do think that Flowers is better than Jones. I think he’s more of a complete player who offers the kind of dependability that you look for when handing out a big second contract in NE. He’s also more versatile and is much better at setting the edge and stopping the run. Just my opinion.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Jones would get chipped and double teamed and he played the run reasonably well. Flowers has been good. Chandler is a guy that could wreck a game if not game planned for....that is the difference between the two players.

I can't remember a single time Chandler Jones wrecked a game for us.

Yeah, that was exactly what I was thinking. Jones was always a much better player on the stat sheet and the measurable athleticism than on the field. I don’t recall a single game where he took over and was responsible for thr major game changing play, let alone multiple game changing plays.

I think Flowers is much better than Jones. Flowers plays all over the line, sometimes in the interior, and pressures constantly. In crucial situations, he is always right around the ball. I’d definitely take Flowers if the price tags were similar.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think they will and should do everything in their power to sign him long term, and I think they'd rather let him test the waters in FA than tag him, but if there's an indication that he's more likely to walk to stick around I wouldn't rule out tagging him.

 

[ALP]

yeah im no expert either but also think that flowers is better

also, the whole PD incident w/ Jones was the synthetic weed right? just a 1 time event?

 

[mgteich]

I suspect that we will franchise Gostkowski.

I suspect that if we franchise Flowers, he won't sign until July, so that the best that we would get is a 2020 draft choice. We need to cap money long before July.

 

[Clonamery]

The kid is a stud. His sack on Matt Ryan to put the Falcons out of field goal range is one of the great underapprecaited plays of the BB era.

Flowers is a stud but it was Hightower with the sack on Matt Ryan.

 

[TheBeers]

Flowers is absolutely better than Jones. I would really love to keep him but not sure it’s possible unless he just really wants to be here, and they can get him at a discount. Maybe Gilmore-level $$? 12-14m average or something?

(Idk let’s just go win the super bowl first)

 

[Sciz]

Jones is the better pure edge rusher, but Flowers’ versatility means that it’s significantly harder to remove him from a game. A top left tackle or some help from a running back or tight end can take out most edge rushers. Not so easy to help out your center if he’s struggling to block a guy.

Flowers: 8 playoff games, 5.5 sacks, 20 QB hits, 36 tackles
Jones: 9 playoff games, 2.0 sacks, 8 QB hits, 18 tackles

 

[sportnik]

Flowers is a stud but it was Hightower with the sack on Matt Ryan.

I guess i underestimated just how under appreciated that play was. Without this sack, the Falcons get a field goal on their final drive and deny the Patriots of the greatest comeback of all time.



Not only did Flowers overpower his man to get to Ryan, he threw Ryan back 5 yards after firstmaking contact. It was truly brilliant.

Great players make great plays in big games.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Trey Flowers Was Made for the Patriots Defense

Good article on Trey with lots of GIFs to illustrate his skills.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Joey007]

Jones is the better pure edge rusher, but Flowers’ versatility means that it’s significantly harder to remove him from a game. A top left tackle or some help from a running back or tight end can take out most edge rushers. Not so easy to help out your center if he’s struggling to block a guy.

Flowers: 8 playoff games, 5.5 sacks, 20 QB hits, 36 tackles
Jones: 9 playoff games, 2.0 sacks, 8 QB hits, 18 tackles

When were those two sacks? I can’t even recall him doing anything in the postseason.

 

[Tuck]

The decision making process for deals this size comes down to talent and character but also whether the team wants to invest a significant portion of their cap in the position. I don’t think there is any question that flowers has the first two but whether the team wants to tie up 15 mil for 3-5 years at the position is what this will come down to.

 

[nabwong]

I’m no expert, but I do think that Flowers is better than Jones. I think he’s more of a complete player who offers the kind of dependability that you look for when handing out a big second contract in NE. He’s also more versatile and is much better at setting the edge and stopping the run. Just my opinion.

Flowers is more disciplined for sure and so much more versatile. The number of times Chandler Jones did not set the edge was infuriating. I'd rather have Chris Long than Chandler Jones.