Why has Bill the GM been so poor the past decade?

[Real fan 02]

Interesting response.
One of us must be having reading comprehension issues. I definitely am not saying it isn't me, because I have been known to misunderstand things in the past. So could you explain to me why my preference of finding the next GM that will match BB's performance for the past ten years, as being a "really, really stupid/brainless take"? Just didn't think that it would be a controversial thing to state. By the way, the insults don't bother me, but the lack of explaining my "stupid/brainless" take is a bit annoying.

Here's what I'll say.. and I've asked this question and it seems either it keep intentionally getting ignored or people don't want to accept it.

You mentioned the last 10 seasons.. who was the qb? Now. How has it looked without the QB. Of course no can ever diminish what Bill has done. He's a dam good HC ,however a bottom 5 GM. He's always been a bottom 5 GM. #12 was the ultimate equalizer.

When any GM, coach whatever has the guy at QB.. it's easier to make draft blunders.

So no insults on my part I just know how it looked the last 10 seasons with a QB.. and unfortunately how it looks now.

 

[RIpats88]

How do we feel about Jack Jones being elite so far on the raiders after we released him for curfew reasons?

 

[p8ryts]

How do we feel about Jack Jones being elite so far on the raiders after we released him for curfew reasons?

give it time

 

[Calhoun44]

Here's what I'll say.. and I've asked this question and it seems either it keep intentionally getting ignored or people don't want to accept it.

You mentioned the last 10 seasons.. who was the qb? Now. How has it looked without the QB. Of course no can ever diminish what Bill has done. He's a dam good HC ,however a bottom 5 GM. He's always been a bottom 5 GM. #12 was the ultimate equalizer.

When any GM, coach whatever has the guy at QB.. it's easier to make draft blunders.

So no insults on my part I just know how it looked the last 10 seasons with a QB.. and unfortunately how it looks now.

That is interesting feedback, I appreciate it.
Here are my thoughts on your question:
Cam seemed like a temporary plan until they straightened out the salary cap. Then Mac came along and was solid the first year, there were very few people (if any) that thought he would completely collapse like he did, most people thought he would get better because of his supposed strength of being a hard worker and his desire to study film. Zappe has proven that the team is not as bad as their 4-11 record, but he is probably not the answer (who knows?). Lots of GM's are struggling to identify the next franchise QB, they are hard to find. I am sometimes confused by BB's drafting too, but I know he has way more knowledge and experience than I will ever have, so I am willing to cut him some slack and give him one more year to get things straightened out. His strength as a GM is that he knows where to put his resources to build a TEAM that has the type of players that he can mold to the championship mentality that he has mastered. Yes, it is quite possible that he has aged out, but I feel that it is more likely that he is still capable of building a great team with a franchise QB.

Also, saying BB has always been a bottom 5 GM is definitely not something you will ever convince me of, that seems like a bit of a stretch. Not to mention that he was voted the 2021 Pro Football Writers' Association NFL Executive of the Year. Take that in for a second, the WRITERS selected him to win that honor.

Anyway, I appreciate your respectful dialog and kind of think we probably won't ever see this the same way, but I can relate to the frustration that people have with BB's unorthodox style/methodology.

 

[State]

Our OL lacks proper coaching. The two FAs brought in haven’t panned out. Reiff was predictable as he is old.

Brown is constantly dinged up after showing up out of shape. James Ferentz should not be suiting up.

This ultimately is the GM’s responsibility.

 

[Real fan 02]

That is interesting feedback, I appreciate it.
Here are my thoughts on your question:
Cam seemed like a temporary plan until they straightened out the salary cap. Then Mac came along and was solid the first year, there were very few people (if any) that thought he would completely collapse like he did, most people thought he would get better because of his supposed strength of being a hard worker and his desire to study film. Zappe has proven that the team is not as bad as their 4-11 record, but he is probably not the answer (who knows?). Lots of GM's are struggling to identify the next franchise QB, they are hard to find. I am sometimes confused by BB's drafting too, but I know he has way more knowledge and experience than I will ever have, so I am willing to cut him some slack and give him one more year to get things straightened out. His strength as a GM is that he knows where to put his resources to build a TEAM that has the type of players that he can mold to the championship mentality that he has mastered. Yes, it is quite possible that he has aged out, but I feel that it is more likely that he is still capable of building a great team with a franchise QB.

Also, saying BB has always been a bottom 5 GM is definitely not something you will ever convince me of, that seems like a bit of a stretch. Not to mention that he was voted the 2021 Pro Football Writers' Association NFL Executive of the Year. Take that in for a second, the WRITERS selected him to win that honor.

Anyway, I appreciate your respectful dialog and kind of think we probably won't ever see this the same way, but I can relate to the frustration that people have with BB's unorthodox style/methodology.

Oh definitely I respect your opinions, and that's what it's all about sharing thoughts, opinions and insights ok our beloved patriots. I enjoy it! Your absolutely welcome. I say bottom 5 GM because yes of course he's hit on draft picks.. but the most egregious ones at at the skill positions. WR is his kyrptonite. As GM it's a must an organization hits on WRs. They are vital to the QB and allows the organization to build around that position. When you miss continuous on WRs and now on a QB.. you get 4-11.. I'll never diminish him as a coach but me as a fan I'm. Ot as high on the GM as of late. The 2021 GM of year was basically due to the FA splurge.. of wich 3 players remain. KB, Henry and judon.

2021 we thought we had the QB.. but still got rham and beastmore put of it. Since 2021 we've regressed.

 

[State]

The Chinese have an expression “smarties outsmart themselves.” 聰明反被聰明誤

It fits with BB as GM.

 

[mgteich]

alot of people want to look at just this year, but reality is that Bill has not drafted a pro-bowl player in the first round in a decade. thats crazy to think about. we look at this year being 2-9 and it didn't happen in a bubble. reality is the bad drafting started a WHILE ago and is why we are here.

the second dynasty was essentially built on great drafting. Edelman, Gronk, mccourty, hightower, trey flowers, chandler jones, shane vereen, james white etc....the list goes on and on. as guys left or needed to be replaced bill had their replacement ready. woodhead to vereen to james white. welker to edelman/amendola. and in a large part is what kept the patriots always competitive. Bill's inability to replace these players as they retired via the draft is why we are here.

people think having tons of cap space in 2020 and 2024 is a good thing. all it means is none of your drafted players are worth re-signing. so you need to overpay for other teams players they deem not worthy of re-signing.

has Bill just lost his evaluation of offensive talent? has his failure to adjust to brady not being here in Free agency/paying players played a role? (i.e. Bill offering guys like deandre hopkins below market deals as if brady is on the team and he'll take less to compete for a superbowl.) is it a complete disregard for offense taking for granted how Brady/mcDaniels held it together?

i'm not really even sure his strategy of what type of offense he wants to build. a GM thinking having your top receivers be parker/juju/bourne in 2023. what is the actual ceiling of that offense to compete with even with a good QB.

I get all the angst.
=============
The big HOWEVER is QB decisions.

not keeping Brady

Choosing and staying with Mac Jones

not securing a free agent QB to back up Jones (Zappe wasn't even on the 53; anyone could taken him for their #3)
=========
TO BE CLEAR
If Mac Jones turned out to be a top 10 QB (reasonable for a top 15 pick), we would likely have been in the playoffs in 2022 and 2023, and be look forward to a run deep into the playoffs in the next couple of years.
=====
THE OTHER HOPELESS GM DECISIONS
were to make Patricia OC and OL coach while having Judge as the QB coach. These decisions were simply negligent.
==============
AS AN ASIDE,

it was Belichick's COACHING failure to allow Patricia to continue to play Wynn at RT after that hadn't worked during the pre-season and early season. Wynn was actually an asset as a backup LG and perhaps backup LT. He was a travesty at RT. Let's see: Wynn or Onwenu. Let's check it out in the pre-season. Patricia chose Wynn and stayed with him. HEAD COACH Belichick refused to step in after this was such a failure.

 

[RIpats88]

I get all the angst.
=============
The big HOWEVER is QB decisions.

not keeping Brady

Choosing and staying with Mac Jones

not securing a free agent QB to back up Jones (Zappe wasn't even on the 53; anyone could taken him for their #3)
=========
TO BE CLEAR
If Mac Jones turned out to be a top 10 QB (reasonable for a top 15 pick), we would likely have been in the playoffs in 2022 and 2023, and be look forward to a run deep into the playoffs in the next couple of years.
=====
THE OTHER HOPELESS GM DECISIONS
were to make Patricia OC and OL coach while having Judge as the QB coach. These decisions were simply negligent.
==============
AS AN ASIDE,

it was Belichick's COACHING failure to allow Patricia to continue to play Wynn at RT after that hadn't worked during the pre-season and early season. Wynn was actually an asset as a backup LG and perhaps backup LT. He was a travesty at RT. Let's see: Wynn or Onwenu. Let's check it out in the pre-season. Patricia chose Wynn and stayed with him. HEAD COACH Belichick refused to step in after this was such a failure.

the patricia/judge decision just really was the most baffling. and the media was on it in March how odd the arrangement was.

whatever you think, those guys had ABSOLUTELY NO EXPERIENCE coaching an offense. how Bill thought they could step right in and run a competent offense instead of guys who spent their whole careers doing it is just pure arrogance or negligence.

its like hiring Josh McDaniels and having him call the defense. or having troy brown coach linebackers and jerod mayo wide receivers.

I dont get the thinking there.

 

[skinnydog]

I get all the angst.
=============
The big HOWEVER is QB decisions.

not keeping Brady

Choosing and staying with Mac Jones

not securing a free agent QB to back up Jones (Zappe wasn't even on the 53; anyone could taken him for their #3)
=========
TO BE CLEAR
If Mac Jones turned out to be a top 10 QB (reasonable for a top 15 pick), we would likely have been in the playoffs in 2022 and 2023, and be look forward to a run deep into the playoffs in the next couple of years.
=====
THE OTHER HOPELESS GM DECISIONS
were to make Patricia OC and OL coach while having Judge as the QB coach. These decisions were simply negligent.
==============
AS AN ASIDE,

it was Belichick's COACHING failure to allow Patricia to continue to play Wynn at RT after that hadn't worked during the pre-season and early season. Wynn was actually an asset as a backup LG and perhaps backup LT. He was a travesty at RT. Let's see: Wynn or Onwenu. Let's check it out in the pre-season. Patricia chose Wynn and stayed with him. HEAD COACH Belichick refused to step in after this was such a failure.

The failure to have ant OTs under contract going into 2024 is a huge GM failure as well. As is the failure to address the TE position

 

[RIpats88]

The failure to have ant OTs under contract going into 2024 is a huge GM failure as well. As is the failure to address the TE position

why we let onwenu get to Free agency is beyond me. Duggar as well. both are going to command top dollar.

if we don't re-sign henry then tight end becomes a big problem. We drafted 2 busts high rounds in 2020 only to have to pay big money to Henry/jonnu smith and let them go.

 

[TommyD4207]

How do we feel about Jack Jones being elite so far on the raiders after we released him for curfew reasons?

It wasn't just curfew reasons.

 

[TommyD4207]

the patricia/judge decision just really was the most baffling. and the media was on it in March how odd the arrangement was.

whatever you think, those guys had ABSOLUTELY NO EXPERIENCE coaching an offense. how Bill thought they could step right in and run a competent offense instead of guys who spent their whole careers doing it is just pure arrogance or negligence.

its like hiring Josh McDaniels and having him call the defense. or having troy brown coach linebackers and jerod mayo wide receivers.

I dont get the thinking there.

The offense (and specifically Mac Jones) was better under Patricia.

 

[RIpats88]

The offense (and specifically Mac Jones) was better under Patricia.

This revisionist history take that Patricia was a good OC and Bill was right to hire him as OC needs to die.

the offense being worse doesn’t mean Patricia was a good OC or the offense was better.

A multitude of factors could be at play. We faced an easier schedule last year. Meyers over juju, injuries etc.

Also could last year have broken Mac to the point that this year he’s done for?

I don’t think Bourne, Meyers, the media or even Bill lied about the dysfunction and not running an NFL offense were all lying.

Why did Bill take over playcalling?

 

[TommyD4207]

This revisionist history take that Patricia was a good OC and Bill was right to hire him as OC needs to die.

the offense being worse doesn’t mean Patricia was a good OC or the offense was better.

A multitude of factors could be at play. We faced an easier schedule last year. Meyers over juju, injuries etc.

Also could last year have broken Mac to the point that this year he’s done for?

I don’t think Bourne, Meyers, the media or even Bill lied about the dysfunction and not running an NFL offense were all lying.

Why did Bill take over playcalling?

I didn't say he was a good OC.

I said the offense was better under Patricia - and all the narratives that you put in your post and the BSM splashed all over the place that *he* was the problem, is completely ridiculous in retrospect. Mac Jones had a decent first year - good for a rookie, got ****y and full of himself, and didn't put in the work. It's obvious. His mechanics went from 'pretty good' in 2021, to 'absolute dogshit' preseason 2022, and did nothing but ***** to the media about his lack of weapons *this* offseason, and looked even worse.

Spoiled, entitled brat, unwilling to put in the work. It's clear as day for anyone looking at it. They took the lottery ticket pick at 15 in 2021, it didn't work.

If I wanted the Boston Sports Media Hot Take, I'd watch NBCSN.

 

[Real fan 02]

This revisionist history take that Patricia was a good OC and Bill was right to hire him as OC needs to die.

the offense being worse doesn’t mean Patricia was a good OC or the offense was better.

A multitude of factors could be at play. We faced an easier schedule last year. Meyers over juju, injuries etc.

Also could last year have broken Mac to the point that this year he’s done for?

I don’t think Bourne, Meyers, the media or even Bill lied about the dysfunction and not running an NFL offense were all lying.

Why did Bill take over playcalling?

Last season was the Undoubtedly undoing of the relationship with Mac & Bill, the lack of buy-in from the players mostly on offense. No matter whatever people try to spin about it was better. We won games because the defense was getting pick 6s. Bills loyalty to friends whom are coaches can't sit well with alot of the players.

Brady made it possible so alot of coaches, players and others got paid and got opportunities.

 

[archstanton543]

I didn't say he was a good OC.

I said the offense was better under Patricia - and all the narratives that you put in your post and the BSM splashed all over the place that *he* was the problem, is completely ridiculous in retrospect. Mac Jones had a decent first year - good for a rookie, got ****y and full of himself, and didn't put in the work. It's obvious. His mechanics went from 'pretty good' in 2021, to 'absolute dogshit' preseason 2022, and did nothing but ***** to the media about his lack of weapons *this* offseason, and looked even worse.

Spoiled, entitled brat, unwilling to put in the work. It's clear as day for anyone looking at it. They took the lottery ticket pick at 15 in 2021, it didn't work.

If I wanted the Boston Sports Media Hot Take, I'd watch NBCSN.

What about all the players who say Mac practically lives at 1 Patriot place? If he was lazy, why did he reach out to old coaches to try to make sense of Phat Matt's offense?

 

[Real fan 02]

I didn't say he was a good OC.

I said the offense was better under Patricia - and all the narratives that you put in your post and the BSM splashed all over the place that *he* was the problem, is completely ridiculous in retrospect. Mac Jones had a decent first year - good for a rookie, got ****y and full of himself, and didn't put in the work. It's obvious. His mechanics went from 'pretty good' in 2021, to 'absolute dogshit' preseason 2022, and did nothing but ***** to the media about his lack of weapons *this* offseason, and looked even worse.

Spoiled, entitled brat, unwilling to put in the work. It's clear as day for anyone looking at it. They took the lottery ticket pick at 15 in 2021, it didn't work.

If I wanted the Boston Sports Media Hot Take, I'd watch NBCSN.

No matter what all think as fans. The relationship eroded. The team sucks. Kraft needs to start over. I don't believe bill or mac will be here come next season.

 

[jmt57]

I wonder how much of the problem is the front office brain drain reaching a tipping point.

Tom Dimitroff​

Scott Pioli​

Nick Caserio​

Ernie Adams​

Monti Ossenfort​

Dave Zeigler​

Perhaps after those deaprtures the replacements were of lower quality in terms of their competence, leading to BB not trusting their opinions as much as those predecessors. That is never a good thing, because the final decision is then being made based on less information and only one viewpoint.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

You cannot put what happened under Patricia in its own separate incident. Time is not broken up into distinct moments. It is a continuous flow. Mac went into last season still with McDaniels coaching fresh in his mind. Then he gets to 2022 with Patricia and Judge and it all starts to fall apart. Go back to last year and every analyst that looked at Patricia's schemes called them trash, simplistic, and incompetent.

That call Mac made to his college coaches was pure desperation. What Belichick did in hiring Patricia and Judge was UNPRECEDENTED. Coaches have trained on both sides of the ball, sure. But NEVER straight up as the highest position. Typically they would START as an assistant position coach, not the coordinator level.

Then there was this year which saw even more weapons, more blockers leave, along with the only receiver Mac could consistently trust. Right now, we have to move on from Mac because he's broken. But the guy responsible for breaking him is still in the building.

EDIT: Meant Judge, not O'Brien...where was my head?