Cornerback Assessment/Questions

[TheRainMaker]

It has finally come true...Jalen Mills is the Pats #1 CB:

 

[PatsFan2]

It has finally come true...Jalen Mills is the Pats #1 CB:

On Paper let's see em with the pads on I have a feeling Mills is going to be good dept.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Earthwind also had Asante $amuel & Randall Gay ahead of him; and we don't have anybody currently in the building as good as they were that season... Terrance Mitchell is simply Not a starting-caliber CB on a team with legitimate PO aspirations... The fact that he's considered one of the top two candidates to start opposite Jalen Zero INTs Mills should tell us all we need to know about the overall state of our secondary's first level.

I agree with what you say, but do not agree with your "assessment description". Mitchell is a JAG, I agree, but he was a starting corner in 2020 for all 16 games, both playoff contests, posted 65 tackles (2 for loss), 3 forced fumbles and 13 passes defensed, so when you say Mitchell simply is not a starting corner on a team with playoff aspirations, history proves you are wrong. Like recent history in 2020. Mitchell is a JAG, I agree, he has been in the league for 7 years and is an average corner.

I do not think we disagree much, I only disagree with your verbiage. "Simply not" and "if Mitchell is Plan B we are in big trouble" are extreme "chicken little" comments IMO - it appears as though everything is good or bad to you, but the vast majority of NFL players are average or JAGs. Players can be good, average, or bad, they do not have to be good or bad. Mitchell is average.

 

[Wozzy]

Mills, Mitchell, Butler... all these guys fall into that "good" not "great" area. They have everything you want in a CB, do everything well except one... run fast. They're all 4.5 forty types... all except Jon Jones who falls into that "great" slot corner area and presumably Marcus Jones.

They should play physical, use the sideline as their friend and play a lot of zone. If the defensive front is improved, can create pressure it will matter a whole lot less.

 

[Wozzy]

I agree with what you say, but do not agree with your "assessment description". Mitchell is a JAG, I agree, but he was a starting corner in 2020 for all 16 games, both playoff contests, posted 65 tackles (2 for loss), 3 forced fumbles and 13 passes defensed, so when you say Mitchell simply is not a starting corner on a team with playoff aspirations, history proves you are wrong. Like recent history in 2020. Mitchell is a JAG, I agree, he has been in the league for 7 years and is an average corner.

I do not think we disagree much, I only disagree with your verbiage. "Simply not" and "if Mitchell is Plan B we are in big trouble" are extreme "chicken little" comments IMO - it appears as though everything is good or bad to you, but the vast majority of NFL players are average or JAGs. Players can be good, average, or bad, they do not have to be good or bad. Mitchell is average.

Captain's revisionist history take that Randall Gay was somehow better than what we have now is a horrible take.

He was average at best... and the "we won with Earthwind Moreland" take is good, but probably not as good as knowing we won a championship with Troy Brown playing nickel CB.

 

[State]

Surgeries on Both shoulders, before he has stepped even one foot on an NFL field, and at his size... We should be concerned.

How does he wipe? A concern for those of us who had rotator cuff repair. Was that it?

 

[captain stone]

How does he wipe? A concern for those of us who had rotator cuff repair. Was that it?

Since it was both shoulders, I ass-ume that he finds it just as easy - or as difficult - as it was before the surgeries...

 

[stinkypete]

So muchtalk about Jonathan Jones being a surprise cut/trade. Unless someone else emerges as a passable slot corner (and nobody else could do it in 2021) he seems to me to be the safest bet to make the roster.

I actually wonder if Mills is competing for his roster spot. He'd free up $5.3 million in cap space according to OP. Mitchell has similar size and had a better QBR against in three out of four years. Butler actually played pretty well for Tennessee in 2020. Mills greatest strength is his versatility, but the addition two rookies, Peppers, and shift toward smaller, quicker LBs could render this strength obsolete.

Given the choice of the two, I think we're the better team with Jones.

 

[mgteich]

Given the choice of the two, I think we're the better team with Jones.

There is NO choice to be made between Mills and Jones. Either is a 100% lock if healthy.
Mills, Jones, Jones, Jones are all 100% locks if neathy.

 

[Sciz]

So muchtalk about Jonathan Jones being a surprise cut/trade. Unless someone else emerges as a passable slot corner (and nobody else could do it in 2021) he seems to me to be the safest bet to make the roster.

I actually wonder if Mills is competing for his roster spot. He'd free up $5.3 million in cap space according to OP. Mitchell has similar size and had a better QBR against in three out of four years. Butler actually played pretty well for Tennessee in 2020. Mills greatest strength is his versatility, but the addition two rookies, Peppers, and shift toward smaller, quicker LBs could render this strength obsolete.

Given the choice of the two, I think we're the better team with Jones.

The $5.3M savings for Mills is next season. Most of his salary is guaranteed this year. He's not going anywhere.

 

[Uptown]

 

[captain stone]

One difference between the two, however...and it's a big one...

 

[Zuma]

One difference between the two, however...and it's a big one...

3"

 

[TheRainMaker]

The $5.3M savings for Mills is next season. Most of his salary is guaranteed this year. Hie's not going anywhere.

@stinkypete is correct. According to overthecap.com, if Mills is cut before June 1st, they’d save $5.3M.

After June 1st, savings would be $4.1M.

 

[Brotherblues]

@stinkypete is correct. According to overthecap.com, if Mills is cut before June 1st, they’d save $5.3M.

After June 1st, savings would be $4.1M.

He's still not going anywhere unless he shows up to camp looking pregnant

 

[Zuma]

At this moment Mills is our best outside CB. Stupid to release him.

 

[captain stone]

3"

Could be... didn't think of that one... The difference I found is, JC was a UDFA while JackOff should've been one.

 

[ralmat55]

My assessment is the position will be deeper and more versatile than the 2021 group.

The last time I got a good look at Malcolm Butler was a 2020 game between the Titans and Steelers. At the time, Chase Claypool was the Steelers rookie phenom, and the Titans put Butler on Claypool. Butler held his own in the matchup.

Before the draft, I watched a good amount of video of the top CBs in the draft as I saw the position as the Pats biggest need. Aside from Gardner and Stingley, I thought it was a rather ho-hum group, so I watched video of Shaun Wade’s last two seasons at OSU just to compare with this year’s prospects. I thought Wade compared favourably. His speed, quickness, length, physicality and ball skills can make him a very good zone corner. It’s well chronicled that he struggled his last year after being moved outside. His struggle was in bump coverage against smaller receivers, but I can see him being effective playing off man especially against players his own size or bigger.

Pre-draft, I didn’t look at Marcus Jones thinking he was only a slot corner because of his size. Then, the Patriots drafted him, so I took a look. It just took minutes before Jones began to remind me of Darrell Green - the smallish HOF CB for Washington who thrived over a long career. Jones is not as fast as Green was, but he’s plenty fast. He’s also tough, physical and has the quick hops, body control and balance to compete with bigger men. I’m not saying you want to match him up with Mike Williams, but I think Marcus Jones can an effective outside CB.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

I was watching Stingleys draft suff...I was laughing because it was 3 Interference flags...dude grabs everything he can get his hands on... he's a stud though, penalties don't mean anything, just tackle the guy before he can make a catch...

 

[mgteich]

HOW MANY DB's PLAY IN GAMES IN 2021
CB (4) Jackson, Mills, Jones, Bryant, Williams (only one of Bryant or Williams when Jones played)
S (3) McCourty, Phillips, Dugger
STer (2) Bethe and Cody
==============================
In no game did 5 CB's get defensive snaps.
In no game did 4 safeties get defensive snaps.
==============================
The BOTTOM LINE is that 9 DB's played in any game, and we played a total of 5 corners because of injuries.
====================
We will almost ALWAYS be playing 5 or 6 defensive backs at a time. Almost always, we will have 3 corners and 2 safeties. And much of the time, we play a 3rd safety.

This year, we have added a 4th safety who will likely get significant reps.

We do not need a 9th and 10th DB who will play defense. 4 corners and 4 safeties should be enough. Bethel has played some in an emergency. HOWEVER, I agree that we SHOULD have a 5th corner in case of injuries (really 2 injuries because we can play well enough with 3 corners and 4 safeties (and Bethel for 8 DB situations).
=========================
BELT AND SUSPENDERS
Should we carry SIX corners and one less of something else? This could be forced if one of the Jones boys cannot play to start the year. Jack Jones could be inactive all year. Or Marcus Jones could be not ready to play defense, and be only active as a punt returner. Or Jonathan might be not quite ready for Game One. So, IMO, we need only 5 corners to play defense, with only 3 playing defense in any game (same as last year).