Celtics trade Isaiah Thomas, Brooklyn 2018 pick & players for Kyrie Irving

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Not sure why people are saying this trade is about Kyrie Irving's value versus the Brooklyn pick's value. It's about Tatum versus the Brooklyn pick, as the Celtics preferred Tatum over a likely high pick next hear.

I personally don't like the trade on paper, especially based on some other players who were available earlier in the offseason. Read an article that with LBJ off the court, Irving's group is constantly outscored, and he could only win 20-30 games while being "the man" earlier in his career. His defense, while not as bad as IT, is very bad. Not sure it's a great idea to hope you can "motivate" a professional athlete to become better at defense, and not sure you trade thst much for a guy who either can't play defense or, worse, doesn't feel like playing defense. Loved IT's leadership and attitude...concerned Kyrie is a classical NBA prima donna. That said, I understand the long-term value of having Irving over a "likely to flame out" Thomas. For Cleveland, it's a great trade. They probably will need IT to play at a high level for one more year because LBJ is likely gone after that.

All that being said, I like the trade based on NBA philosophy, or Danny Ainge's philosophy. The Celtics weren't going to win a championship, so let's hope to get lucky with a new set of players and hope chemistry develops. Who knows? Maybe Irving will thrive like Harden when he becomes the go-to guy. Better to take a chance than to sit around waiting for an inevitable playoff loss where you never really had a chance.

 

[livinginthe past]

I think that the Celtics have done a great job turning trade savvy over a period of years and role players into a genuine Star.

I guess BB fans are a lot like Football fans - they absolutely LOVE premium draft picks (actually any type of draft pick, normally) because it allows them to imagine all the great things THEY would do with it.

IT has been a great player for the Celts - maximized his ability and fought hard for the team - but his defensive frailties are set in stone - Kyrie CAN defend and defend well - if he is motivated - the potential is there.

I think the C's are already better than the Cavs - even though the Cavs do have (for 1 season anyway) the best player in the league.

 

[DarrylS]

As the dust settles on this trade and after reading how the Cav's fleeced the Celtics, still like it.. do not know how any sports scribe can declare a winner, particularly as IT's hip issues may not go away.

When you look at a big picture from when this team was led by an aging group; Pierce, Garnett and Allen to now, it is a huge transition and if Brown and Tatum can play meaningful minutes it is even better... then there are the draft assets that Danny has amassed up to the 2021 draft.

Initially there will be some issues as they have not played together, however over time look forward to some great games.. great coaching also will help. I may watch a whole NBA again.. hope so.

 

[Bill Lee]

I read through Ainge's press conference ( Here’s what Danny Ainge had to say after the Kyrie Irving-Isaiah Thomas trade) and found the following to be interesting:

You said that Kyrie sets a timeline for you, can you elaborate on what you meant by that?

His age is a great fit. His age and experience is a great fit for us. With where we are with some of our younger players, his ability to score in a variety of ways—shooting from the three and getting to the basket—is elite. He’s shown that the past three years in the NBA Finals.

At the young age of 25, it’s very unique and very special, what he’s been able to accomplish against the best competition in the world.​

A few others have picked up on the whole timeline thing as well. I found the following ( Bold Trade, Bright Future: Kyrie Irving Fits The Celtics' Timeline ) to be interesting:

Moreover, the Celtics roster is young. Tatum is 19. Jaylen Brown is 20. Marcus Smart is 23. Terry Rozier is 23. Hayward and Marcus Morris are 27. Al Horford is the old guy at 31 and his game is not built on speed.​

If you slot IT into that, he's 28 now and will be 29 in February. It really didn't line up to have IT be the guy to carry the younger core going forward.

In Danny's mind, Kyrie is very unique and very special, and Kyrie's timeline lines up much better with the core of the team than does IT, who was already demanding a max deal. With Kyrie the team got a better player who is three years younger and five inches taller than IT who will be worth a max deal.

 

[RobertWeathers]

As the dust settles on this trade and after reading how the Cav's fleeced the Celtics, still like it.. do not know how any sports scribe can declare a winner, particularly as IT's hip issues may not go away.

When you look at a big picture from when this team was led by an aging group; Pierce, Garnett and Allen to now, it is a huge transition and if Brown and Tatum can play meaningful minutes it is even better... then there are the draft assets that Danny has amassed up to the 2021 draft.

Initially there will be some issues as they have not played together, however over time look forward to some great games.. great coaching also will help. I may watch a whole NBA again.. hope so.

I don't agree with those who say the Cs were fleeced. Considering IT has a bad hip and a expiring contract, and Zizic is an unknown and Jae is a role player, he had to throw in the BKY pick as there was legit competition for KI from MIL

Danny overpaid for sure but in return he landed a clutch, 25ppg scorer who knows how to win championships.

 

[Bill Lee]

Danny overpaid for sure but in return he landed a clutch, 25ppg scorer who knows how to win championships.

Danny overpaid relative to where others valued Kyrie in isolation, but it's clear he had great value to Danny not just for where Kyrie fit into the Celtics as a player but also for where he fits in to Danny's overall plan (aka "timeline") for the team.

Well, if nothing else, he created a lot of talking points for next season and several more after that, and he's STILL sitting on a hoard of draft picks with a young core in place already. Having IT on the Cavs and Kyrie on the Celts will make this season's CLE-BOS games very interesting.

In case anyone cares, Bill Simmons was shocked by the trade, and was quite upset at losing IT. He said he had just bought his young son an IT shirt this year, and he said IT did everything a team could ask a player in his position to do, and in the end he just got done over.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Danny overpaid relative to where others valued Kyrie in isolation, but it's clear he had great value to Danny not just for where Kyrie fit into the Celtics as a player but also for where he fits in to Danny's overall plan (aka "timeline") for the team.

Well, if nothing else, he created a lot of talking points for next season and several more after that, and he's STILL sitting on a hoard of draft picks with a young core in place already. Having IT on the Cavs and Kyrie on the Celts will make this season's CLE-BOS games very interesting.

In case anyone cares, Bill Simmons was shocked by the trade, and was quite upset at losing IT. He said he had just bought his young son an IT shirt this year, and he said IT did everything a team could ask a player in his position to do, and in the end he just got done over.

It's a shame they only play 3 times this year. Gotta feeling we'll see them in May or June

Simmons should have known better.

Danny would trade his kids if it made his team better.

 

[primetime]

The overpay was relative to what was given up for superior players in George and Butler earlier this off-season and the fact the Celtics could have, had they so chosen, stood pat and drafted a point guard with a higher ceiling than Irving. It comes down to whether you'd want Fultz + Butler + Hayward + Brooklyn pick next year or Irving + Tatum + Hayward + Lakers pick next year. You also keep Zizic in the first scenario. Hell, given how bad the Bulls got fleeced, you may not even have to give up Thomas.

In any case, the picks cancel out, Hayward cancels out. But I'd simply much rather have Fultz and Butler (and Zizic) over Irving and Tatum. That was all water under the bridge by the time the trade was made, of course, but I still think Ainge misplayed the summer.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Danny would trade his kids if it made his team better.

Only if it is an unprotected draft pick.....

 

[RobertWeathers]

Only if it is an unprotected draft pick.....

Right. Cousins twice-removed would be for protected pick or signed to non-guaranteed deals.

 

[Bill Lee]

The overpay was relative to what was given up for superior players in George and Butler earlier this off-season and the fact the Celtics could have, had they so chosen, stood pat and drafted a point guard with a higher ceiling than Irving. It comes down to whether you'd want Fultz + Butler + Hayward + Brooklyn pick next year or Irving + Tatum + Hayward + Lakers pick next year. You also keep Zizic in the first scenario. Hell, given how bad the Bulls got fleeced, you may not even have to give up Thomas.

In any case, the picks cancel out, Hayward cancels out. But I'd simply much rather have Fultz and Butler (and Zizic) over Irving and Tatum. That was all water under the bridge by the time the trade was made, of course, but I still think Ainge misplayed the summer.

You seem to think that Danny has full control on all outcomes. Here's what he said in his presser:

Q: What made Kyrie specifically special as opposed to some of the other trade opportunities you might have had? Especially in relation to the Nets pick?

A: First of all, we’ve offered first-round picks of this caliber for a handful of players—a few players at least—in the past. The trades just didn’t go through. But Kyrie is unique, and I think that this was just a trade that we wanted to do that we felt was best for us at this time.​

It was widely rumored that in the case of Butler that BOS put together an attractive package and CHI just would not trade him to the Celts. Why they let themselves get fleeced is a different issue but it's clear that everyone wonders just exactly what CHI was thinking.

Personally, I don't think ending up with Heyward and Irving and Tatum is misplaying the summer. PG clearly had other plans. Butler wasn't available to BOS. Zizic doesn't matter. Getting Heyward away from Utah looked pretty shakey for a while but Danny got it to happen. Tatum and picks vs Fultz seems like a win. A younger, taller, healthier, more proven Kyrie over IT plus Jae and the BKN pick seems like a win. The team is on a definite trajectory with a young core in place. I don't know what more one can expect from Danny, given that he is not in full control of all events.

As you say the water has flown under the bridge. It'll be interesting to see how we look back at this later. A lot obviously depends on how Kyrie fits in to the role that's available to him. If it fits well and he ends up getting extended it will be a definite win. As I mentioned all that was getting discussed a few weeks ago was how to deal with IT's and Bradley's upcoming contract demands. It's been an interesting summer.

 

[borg]

In case anyone cares, Bill Simmons was shocked by the trade, and was quite upset at losing IT. He said he had just bought his young son an IT shirt this year, and he said IT did everything a team could ask a player in his position to do, and in the end he just got done over.

Simmons chooses to ignore:

1) Rondo abused the Boston guards in round one. His injury saved the C's
2) The Wizards' guards abused Boston in round two. Depth was Washington's achilles
3) Kyrie dominated the tiny one prior to IT tapping out of the series

Sure, IT had some big offensive nights during the playoff run....but as we have seen in the past, IT can be swallowed up by teams with size in the paint (Atlanta, Cleveland)

He is what he is....a regular season superstar ... and a hit or miss playoff performer/defensive liability
IT would be the perfect 6th man for every team with championship aspirations ....but with 60-90 max contracts available in the NBA, IT will never play the role he is ideally suited for

 

[patsfan13]

The trade is good for both teams, very good for the C's.

Crowder had to go his minutes would slow the development of Tatum and Brown.

Ainge has turned over almost all the roster of a team that made it to the EC finals! mind boggling. We have to think that Ainge has talked to Stevens enough to under stand what sorts of players fit best with his system Brown and Tatum were picked because they fit the system Stevens runs.

Looking at the roster we have a nice 8 man rotation with much better outside shooting than last year, not limited to 1 option at the end of playoff games.

PG, KI & Rozier
2 & 3, Hayward, Brown & Tatum
4 & 5, Horford, Morris & Baynes

Yabusele, Ojeleye, Nader, Bird, Allen competing for roster spots.

Very interested to see if Yabusele can become a factor, 6'8" 260 is a big body to put inside.

The team will need time to gel and establish roles and rotations but this looks to be an entertaining year. Of the people they gave up Bradley may hurt the most this year. But the overall team has the potential to be a lot better IMO.

 

[Froob]

You seem to think that Danny has full control on all outcomes. Here's what he said in his presser:

Q: What made Kyrie specifically special as opposed to some of the other trade opportunities you might have had? Especially in relation to the Nets pick?

A: First of all, we’ve offered first-round picks of this caliber for a handful of players—a few players at least—in the past. The trades just didn’t go through. But Kyrie is unique, and I think that this was just a trade that we wanted to do that we felt was best for us at this time.​

It was widely rumored that in the case of Butler that BOS put together an attractive package and CHI just would not trade him to the Celts. Why they let themselves get fleeced is a different issue but it's clear that everyone wonders just exactly what CHI was thinking.

Personally, I don't think ending up with Heyward and Irving and Tatum is misplaying the summer. PG clearly had other plans. Butler wasn't available to BOS. Zizic doesn't matter. Getting Heyward away from Utah looked pretty shakey for a while but Danny got it to happen. Tatum and picks vs Fultz seems like a win. A younger, taller, healthier, more proven Kyrie over IT plus Jae and the BKN pick seems like a win. The team is on a definite trajectory with a young core in place. I don't know what more one can expect from Danny, given that he is not in full control of all events.

As you say the water has flown under the bridge. It'll be interesting to see how we look back at this later. A lot obviously depends on how Kyrie fits in to the role that's available to him. If it fits well and he ends up getting extended it will be a definite win. As I mentioned all that was getting discussed a few weeks ago was how to deal with IT's and Bradley's upcoming contract demands. It's been an interesting summer.

You seem to think that Danny has full control on all outcomes. Here's what he said in his presser:

Q: What made Kyrie specifically special as opposed to some of the other trade opportunities you might have had? Especially in relation to the Nets pick?

A: First of all, we’ve offered first-round picks of this caliber for a handful of players—a few players at least—in the past. The trades just didn’t go through. But Kyrie is unique, and I think that this was just a trade that we wanted to do that we felt was best for us at this time.​

It was widely rumored that in the case of Butler that BOS put together an attractive package and CHI just would not trade him to the Celts. Why they let themselves get fleeced is a different issue but it's clear that everyone wonders just exactly what CHI was thinking.

Personally, I don't think ending up with Heyward and Irving and Tatum is misplaying the summer. PG clearly had other plans. Butler wasn't available to BOS. Zizic doesn't matter. Getting Heyward away from Utah looked pretty shakey for a while but Danny got it to happen. Tatum and picks vs Fultz seems like a win. A younger, taller, healthier, more proven Kyrie over IT plus Jae and the BKN pick seems like a win. The team is on a definite trajectory with a young core in place. I don't know what more one can expect from Danny, given that he is not in full control of all events.

As you say the water has flown under the bridge. It'll be interesting to see how we look back at this later. A lot obviously depends on how Kyrie fits in to the role that's available to him. If it fits well and he ends up getting extended it will be a definite win. As I mentioned all that was getting discussed a few weeks ago was how to deal with IT's and Bradley's upcoming contract demands. It's been an interesting summer.

Indiana and Chicago seemed pretty hell bent on not making a trade with Boston (and Cleveland too for that matter) people should stop talking about it.

 

[Bill Lee]

Indiana and Chicago seemed pretty hell bent on not making a trade with Boston (and Cleveland too for that matter) people should stop talking about it.

It's also pretty arguable that "the Celtics could have, had they so chosen, stood pat and drafted a point guard with a higher ceiling than Irving". Draft picks are crap shoots. For instance no one knows how this year's top 3 (Fultz, Tatum, Ball) will end up doing as NBA players. There certainly was a lot of different opinions before the draft!

Instead you trade three players you don't intend to keep long term and a draft pick with a high but unknown position next year for a young but proven player this year (who, incidentally, cost his team the #1 overall draft pick) that if all works out as intended you will want to keep long term. No sure thing, but a solid plan, IMHO.

 

[Froob]

It's also pretty arguable that "the Celtics could have, had they so chosen, stood pat and drafted a point guard with a higher ceiling than Irving". Draft picks are crap shoots. For instance no one knows how this year's top 3 (Fultz, Tatum, Ball) will end up doing as NBA players. There certainly was a lot of different opinions before the draft!

Instead you trade three players you don't intend to keep long term and a draft pick with a high but unknown position next year for a young but proven player this year (who, incidentally, cost his team the #1 overall draft pick) that if all works out as intended you will want to keep long term. No sure thing, but a solid plan, IMHO.

Kyrie is a pretty high ceiling player himself...never really had a good coach aside from maybe Blatt. This could be his James Harden leap to superstardom.

 

[BlacknGold77]

Simmons chooses to ignore:

1) Rondo abused the Boston guards in round one. His injury saved the C's
2) The Wizards' guards abused Boston in round two. Depth was Washington's achilles
3) Kyrie dominated the tiny one prior to IT tapping out of the series

Sure, IT had some big offensive nights during the playoff run....but as we have seen in the past, IT can be swallowed up by teams with size in the paint (Atlanta, Cleveland)

He is what he is....a regular season superstar ... and a hit or miss playoff performer/defensive liability
IT would be the perfect 6th man for every team with championship aspirations ....but with 60-90 max contracts available in the NBA, IT will never play the role he is ideally suited for

yup, Simmons perfectly sums up the "my binky got traded" reaction to this.

1. Yes, the Bulls win if Rondo doesnt get hurt. He was averaging just shy of a triple double, 12 ppg, 11 apg, 9 reb.

2. IT didnt beat the Wizards, Kelly Olynyk did. IT and Bradley got the lunch stolen by Wall and Beal

 

[Ring 6]

Please list all the teams with "elite bigs" that are in serious (Final 8) Championship contention.

I'll wait.

Well he is defining "bigs" as guys who are 6'7" and6'9" so who knows.

 

[Froob]

yup, Simmons perfectly sums up the "my binky got traded" reaction to this.

1. Yes, the Bulls win if Rondo doesnt get hurt. He was averaging just shy of a triple double, 12 ppg, 11 apg, 9 reb.

2. IT didnt beat the Wizards, Kelly Olynyk did. IT and Bradley got the lunch stolen by Wall and Beal

Lol no credit for ITs incredible games 1 & 2? He was far more valuable than Olynyk.

 

[ALP]

The trade is good for both teams, very good for the C's.

Crowder had to go his minutes would slow the development of Tatum and Brown.

Ainge has turned over almost all the roster of a team that made it to the EC finals! mind boggling. We have to think that Ainge has talked to Stevens enough to under stand what sorts of players fit best with his system Brown and Tatum were picked because they fit the system Stevens runs.

Looking at the roster we have a nice 8 man rotation with much better outside shooting than last year, not limited to 1 option at the end of playoff games.

PG, KI & Rozier
2 & 3, Hayward, Brown & Tatum
4 & 5, Horford, Morris & Baynes

Yabusele, Ojeleye, Nader, Bird, Allen competing for roster spots.

Very interested to see if Yabusele can become a factor, 6'8" 260 is a big body to put inside.

The team will need time to gel and establish roles and rotations but this looks to be an entertaining year. Of the people they gave up Bradley may hurt the most this year. But the overall team has the potential to be a lot better IMO.

you forgot smart btw