Cap Implications of Keeping Brady AND Garoppolo

[convertedpatsfan]

I am talking about Manning's neck injury and surgeries. Many thought he would never come back from those surgeries. Completely different.

Also, Favre is different too. His last few years in the league, he would retreat to Mississippi and sit on a tractor and drink beer while teasing ESPN whether he would come back or retire. He never had the offseason regiment that Brady has. I think that played a big part in his quick fall off because his commitment to conditioning towards the end wasn't there.

There are plenty of elite QBs who had a far more gradual declines in play at the end of their career. There are a few QBs who played at a high level into their 40s (Warren Moon most notably).

But I don't think it matters. If Garoppolo is on this team in 2018, I fully expect that Brady won't be.

Favre is definitely different, but again, he had one of the longest careers in the league at the position. The drop may be because he stayed so long.

Marino played until age 38, and clearly had lost something. But it wasn't a floor dropping fall like we saw with Favre's last season. If he had played the next season though, it might have been.

If you look at Favre's age 36/37 years, they're pretty ugly, similar to Marino's last year. But then he came back and had a mini-resurgence before lighting it up his second-last year. If he had retired at age 39 after his season with the Jets, we would have thought he had a gradual decline similar to others.

But he got two more years, and he lit it up at age 40, which raised expectations, then he dropped significantly at age 41. If he retires at 39, we talk about the gradual decline. Instead, he kept going on so we got to see the floor drop.

We don't get to say the same of Marino, Montana, Kelly and others who saw the writing on the wall early enough. If any of those guys came back for another 2 seasons, you'd see that dramatic drop-off too.

And that's the thing with Brady, we don't know where that point is. We may have eclipsed it already. We just don't know. If we didn't come back in the Super Bowl, this would look a lot different in the off-season. Brady would be seen as old and perhaps washed-up after getting blown-out in the Super Bowl. The talk would be if it's time to replace him with Jimmy. It would be like 2014 after the KC game all over again, except it would last for months because there wouldn't be Cincinnati to move onto next week.

You bring up Favre not counting, but that's the point. He was the anti-Brady, but he outlasted many contemporaries who took the job way more seriously. Nothing Brady does will guarantee anything.

I hope Tom plays until he's 50 for the Patriots, but I don't think that will happen. So the team is balancing maximizing Brady's time while ensuring they maximize how long they could potentially have insurance in case something bad happens. If BB or Brady or Jimmy or you or I knew exactly when that would be, we'd be having a different discussion, but none of us do.

 

[patfanken]

Bottom line and on topic: if they WANT to keep JG+TB in 2018 they CAN.

(they control both . cap and roster healthy to take it w/o major consequences.)


PS and OT:
Lombardi and Schefter are saying for a long time they want to..

You make a small but CRITICAL error in your post, LD. Yes they CAN probably keep both guys next year. It IS logisitically possible. BUT it wouldn't be without consequences. In fact carrying $45MM in cap space for your QB position would have SIGNIFICANT consequenses, both in the short term and long run.

No folks there are only 2 alternatives here.

One is that this is Brady's last season with the Pats. Ideally he'll announce his retirement right after accepting anouther Superbowl MVP trophy and go out in a blaze of glory. More realistically he'll want to continue to play and the Pats will either trade him for something less than a first round pick or grant him his outright reliease, so he can continue his career elsewhere. It would be the least the Krafts should do. Because as great as he is, he's going to be 41 in 2018 and no team is going to pay a high price to bring him in. Brady can't go it just any team. It will have to be the right one.

Two is that Brady plays well enough to make BB feel he can do it again in 2018. He then franchises JG and hopes he can trade him for a 2nd rounder before the draft.

Now here's the thing that makes me think that it will be #1. We've see seen a version of this movie before back in 2001. By the end of TC in 2001, I believe that BB knew that Brady was his QB of the future. He knew what he had in Brady (at least to some degree), and that he was better suited to run his offense than Bledsoe. All that remained was to figure out the end game. It might not have come until 2002 or 2003, but it was coming.,

BB got lucky when Bledsoe got hurt and the rest is history. But the point is he knew what he had then, just as he knows what he has NOW in JG, only this end game is a lot more complicated because it isn't a simple matter where the student has surpassed the teacher like in 2001.

But still, 41 in the NFL is still 41. Bill has always believed, better a year too early than a year too late. I have no doubt that Brady can be an effective QB in this league for a few more years, but...... It will hurt...a lot...to see Brady wearing another uniform (if he choses to play on) but it will be understandable, and probably the right thing to do long term for the team.

 

[XLIX]

No folks there are only 2 alternatives here.

One is that this is Brady's last season with the Pats. Ideally he'll announce his retirement right after accepting anouther Superbowl MVP trophy and go out in a blaze of glory. More realistically he'll want to continue to play and the Pats will either trade him for something less than a first round pick or grant him his outright reliease, so he can continue his career elsewhere. It would be the least the Krafts should do. Because as great as he is, he's going to be 41 in 2018 and no team is going to pay a high price to bring him in. Brady can't go it just any team. It will have to be the right one.

Two is that Brady plays well enough to make BB feel he can do it again in 2018. He then franchises JG and hopes he can trade him for a 2nd rounder before the draft.

With all due respect, it completely blows my mind how many people in here consider Brady retiring the ideal scenario.

If the Patriots win SB52, the last thing I will be saying is "boy I sure hope Brady retires now!!"

 

[patfanken]

With all due respect, it completely blows my mind how many people in here consider Brady retiring the ideal scenario.

If the Patriots win SB52, the last thing I will be saying is "boy I sure hope Brady retires now!!"

Well here's the thing. He WILL eventually be retiring. Would you like him to retire when we have a suitable replacement or when we don't?

Don't get me wrong, I hope Tom Brady will be the QB of the Pats for the next 5 years, or at least the next 2, but if BB is so sure that JG is the best shot at reasonably replacing him with a competetent QB, then I'm ready to move on....mentally. Emotionally I'll be a wreck and hate every photo or clip that shows Brady in another uniform. So yes, 49, having Brady retire with #6 would be my ideal result. Plan B would be keeping Brady and getting a decent round 2 pick for JG and cursing that we didn't trade him in this April

 

[XLIX]

Well here's the thing. He WILL eventually be retiring. Would you like him to retire when we have a suitable replacement or when we don't?

I would like him to retire when he decides he is ready to retire based on his own personal desire (and ability) to continue competing.

Would you like him to retire on his terms or on someone else's? My ideal scenario is Brady continues playing in New England for however long he wants to, and all indications from Brady himself is that number is about 5 more years.

Don't get me wrong, I hope Tom Brady will be the QB of the Pats for the next 5 years, or at least the next 2, but if BB is so sure that JG is the best shot at reasonably replacing him with a competetent QB, then I'm ready to move on....mentally.

So you seem comfortable pushing the greatest of all time out in favor of someone whom you describe as "competent".

Yeah, can't say I'm on board with that.

 

[Joker]

I'm on board with Ken, XLIX and here's my reason why I think this is Brady's last season.
His wife came out in the media and strongly stated she does NOT want to live with a man suffering post concussive syndrome. When she stated as fact he had concussions last season and he stayed silent after her comments, my antennae went up. Then when I look at the Patriots refusing anything for JimmyG, loading up with offensive weapons and the practically gushing effusiveness of BB this offseason, I begin to smell a rat.

I'm thinking this IS Brady's swan song and win or lose, Garrop takes over next season. Occam's razor...it just looks too obvious at this point.

 

[long distance]

They can, but it would be costly and a big risk to the short term future of the team if they do because they would have to sacrifice in other areas of the team to keep them both on the roster.

Sorry, Rob, I studied cap and roster situations for 2017 and 2018 carefully and I don't see what sacrifices and big risks you are talking about. If anything those real numbers are saying Pats are actually prepared for this possibility (not surprising, really).

You make a small but CRITICAL error in your post, LD. Yes they CAN probably keep both guys next year. It IS logisitically possible. BUT it wouldn't be without consequences. In fact carrying $45MM in cap space for your QB position would have SIGNIFICANT consequenses, both in the short term and long run.

Ok, PFK, fair enough, but can you please name SIGNIFICANT consequences you are talking about. That would actually be very much ON TOPIC here.
___

Ok, let's go back to OP and speculate about 2018.
(2019 is just too far ahead, so many things can happen - remember Collins etc.
also if TB stays beyond 2018 there will be restructure & another decision re JG).

As laid down in my previous posts here . with some 55-60M projected cap space in 2018 . they can keep JG and UFAs they want . and that's without thinking about further restructures that can create some more cap space.

FT for JG 22-23M --- 33-37M cap remaining

So which Pats UFAs would qualify as creating big risk if they lose them?

1. Solder? They drafted 2 OTs and brought another 3 this offseason + signed Cannon long-term - which could indicate they could be moving on from Solder regardless.

2. Butler? Even if they want to bring him back they will let him test the market. I think its reasonable enough to believe they would not go into bidding war - and would not be paying two #1 CB contracts regardless of JG.

3. Ealy? He hasn't played a snap yet but lets suppose he'll be very good. Would they really go into bidding war for top DE they had for one season regardless of JG? On the other hand they used 2 of the top 3 picks on DE.

Isn't moving on from 10M+ UFAs what Pats regularly do - regardless of TB+JG situation?

And what would be bigger risk?
a) going from Solder to Fleming/Garcia (Lombardi mentioned option of Cannon moving to LT) . from Butler to Rowe (or Joneses not to mention strong udfa additions or solid vet) . from Ealy to Rivers/Wise (or a vet like Long, Sheard..)
or
b) going from Brady to Brissett (or some vet for sale)?
__

All the other UFAs they can comfortably bring back if they want.

(for reference: top 3 2017 UFAs Pats kept have the following 2017 cap hits:
Hightower - 5M -- contract 9M APY; projected contract 11-13M APY by Miguel
Branch - 3.7M -- contract 4.25M APY; projected contract 5-6M APY
Harmon - 3.5M -- contract 4.25M APY; projected contract 6-7M APY)

So, after the possible JG FT - projected remaining cap = 33-37M

Edelman: 3-4M 2018 cap hit (or even less )
Amendola: - 1-2M
Slater: c.1M
Burkhead: 2-3M (if he wants to stay)
Lewis: 2-3M
Fleming: 2-3M
Ninkovich: 1-2M (fro old times sake)
Van Noy: 3-4M (if he firmly grabs #2 LB)
Ebner: 1-2M

no significant cap hits:
Bolden
Waddle
Coleman
King

Probably they'll want to bring back half of them but even if they'd want all they could have them for less than 20M 2018 cap hit. Counting just probables - some 15M.

Still some 20M left for vets and some possible top restructures for 2019 UFAs (Cooks?, Flowers, Ghost, Allen, Mason, Hogan?, Chung?)
__

Lot's of speculation here of course - just wanted to illustrate Pats have so much flexibility to handle even the worst case scenario (45M cap hit for 2 QBs in 2018) . due to very healthy cap situation and extremely deep roster.

 

[deroc5050]

I'm on board with Ken, XLIX and here's my reason why I think this is Brady's last season.
His wife came out in the media and strongly stated she does NOT want to live with a man suffering post concussive syndrome. When she stated as fact he had concussions last season and he stayed silent after her comments, my antennae went up. Then when I look at the Patriots refusing anything for JimmyG, loading up with offensive weapons and the practically gushing effusiveness of BB this offseason, I begin to smell a rat.

I'm thinking this IS Brady's swan song and win or lose, Garrop takes over next season. Occam's razor...it just looks too obvious at this point.

This is the most likely case. For at least 5 different reasons.

But if Brady does win another Super Bowl this up coming season and plays at an MVP level.. and they let him walk to another team and he plays great for 2-3 more years.. BB better hope they made the right choice with JG, because if Brady plays another 3 years at a high level and JG crashes and burns.... ouch

 

[goheels22002]

I am talking about Manning's neck injury and surgeries. Many thought he would never come back from those surgeries. Completely different.

Also, Favre is different too. His last few years in the league, he would retreat to Mississippi and sit on a tractor and drink beer while teasing ESPN whether he would come back or retire. He never had the offseason regiment that Brady has. I think that played a big part in his quick fall off because his commitment to conditioning towards the end wasn't there.

There are plenty of elite QBs who had a far more gradual declines in play at the end of their career. There are a few QBs who played at a high level into their 40s (Warren Moon most notably).

But I don't think it matters. If Garoppolo is on this team in 2018, I fully expect that Brady won't be.

Great post. We're all coming to grips with the end of the era.

 

[Ring 6]

Favre is definitely different, but again, he had one of the longest careers in the league at the position. The drop may be because he stayed so long.

Marino played until age 38, and clearly had lost something. But it wasn't a floor dropping fall like we saw with Favre's last season. If he had played the next season though, it might have been.

If you look at Favre's age 36/37 years, they're pretty ugly, similar to Marino's last year. But then he came back and had a mini-resurgence before lighting it up his second-last year. If he had retired at age 39 after his season with the Jets, we would have thought he had a gradual decline similar to others.

But he got two more years, and he lit it up at age 40, which raised expectations, then he dropped significantly at age 41. If he retires at 39, we talk about the gradual decline. Instead, he kept going on so we got to see the floor drop.

We don't get to say the same of Marino, Montana, Kelly and others who saw the writing on the wall early enough. If any of those guys came back for another 2 seasons, you'd see that dramatic drop-off too.

And that's the thing with Brady, we don't know where that point is. We may have eclipsed it already. We just don't know. If we didn't come back in the Super Bowl, this would look a lot different in the off-season. Brady would be seen as old and perhaps washed-up after getting blown-out in the Super Bowl. The talk would be if it's time to replace him with Jimmy. It would be like 2014 after the KC game all over again, except it would last for months because there wouldn't be Cincinnati to move onto next week.

You bring up Favre not counting, but that's the point. He was the anti-Brady, but he outlasted many contemporaries who took the job way more seriously. Nothing Brady does will guarantee anything.

I hope Tom plays until he's 50 for the Patriots, but I don't think that will happen. So the team is balancing maximizing Brady's time while ensuring they maximize how long they could potentially have insurance in case something bad happens. If BB or Brady or Jimmy or you or I knew exactly when that would be, we'd be having a different discussion, but none of us do.

So if Brady played differently than he played in the SB people would be thinking he is done so even though he played as well as a QB ever had in a SB you use that as an example that he may almost be done? That makes no sense.
If Brady blew his Achilles and was a statue like Dan Marino he couldn't play at this age so he is close to not being able to play at this age?
Brady is Brady. What happened to other players has no impact on what will happen to him.

 

[Ring 6]

Great post. We're all coming to grips with the end of the era.

I can't believe how "fans" on this board are selling out Tom Brady. It's disgusting.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

So if Brady played differently than he played in the SB people would be thinking he is done so even though he played as well as a QB ever had in a SB you use that as an example that he may almost be done? That makes no sense.
If Brady blew his Achilles and was a statue like Dan Marino he couldn't play at this age so he is close to not being able to play at this age?
Brady is Brady. What happened to other players has no impact on what will happen to him.

What? I have no idea where you're going with the Marino bit. And if it doesn't make sense, it's mostly because you're not making sense.

I'm talking about an alternate scenario where we don't come back, we end up losing the Super Bowl 28-3 or so. You seem to understand what I'm saying since you mention the different scenario, but then point out what actually happened. Yes, I know. I'm talking about an alternate scenario. You're mixing the hypothetical with the actual and wondering why I'm confused...

And to be clear, I'm not saying it would be an example that he's done. I'm saying that if we had lost that Super Bowl 28-3 with Brady throwing a pick-6, the stories that would fill the entire off-season would be about him being close to done. It would have been similar to the hysteria after that Chiefs game. That's what I think would happen. Do you agree or disagree?

Brady is unique in some ways, yes. But my original point from pages and pages ago was that nobody, not even you, knows how it will end. And I think we both agree on that. Avocado ice cream doesn't guarantee that the decline will be slow or fast, gradual or dramatic. The examples were for others who seem to think that they can predict how a great player's career will end. The truth is nobody, not even Brady, knows for sure.

 

[Ring 6]

What? I have no idea where you're going with the Marino bit. And if it doesn't make sense, it's mostly because you're not making sense.

Marino deteriorated because of a severe injury that Brady has not had. It makes no sense to compare the two.

I'm talking about an alternate scenario

Exactly. One that doesn't exist.

where we don't come back, we end up losing the Super Bowl 28-3 or so. You seem to understand what I'm saying since you mention the different scenario, but then point out what actually happened. Yes, I know. I'm talking about an alternate scenario. You're mixing the hypothetical with the actual and wondering why I'm confused...

How is something that didn't happen relevant. IT DIDNT HAPPEN.

And to be clear, I'm not saying it would be an example that he's done. I'm saying that if we had lost that Super Bowl 28-3 with Brady throwing a pick-6, the stories that would fill the entire off-season would be about him being close to done. It would have been similar to the hysteria after that Chiefs game. That's what I think would happen. Do you agree or disagree?

It didn't happen. Why would you discuss the ramifications of what would happen to Brady if he wasn't Brady?
I agree if Vinny testeverde took over Tom Brady's body he would suck and not be here long. Why is that a discussion? It's the same thing.

Brady is unique in some ways, yes. But my original point from pages and pages ago was that nobody, not even you, knows how it will end. And I think we both agree on that. Avocado ice cream doesn't guarantee that the decline will be slow or fast, gradual or dramatic. The examples were for others who seem to think that they can predict how a great player's career will end. The truth is nobody, not even Brady, knows for sure.

Then why are you using examples of other players?
You are right you have no clue how long he can play. So why bring up incongruent comparisons in order to imply you do?

 

[Ring 6]

Well here's the thing. He WILL eventually be retiring. Would you like him to retire when we have a suitable replacement or when we don't?

There is no suitable replacement.
Any additional years of Tom Brady is worth the difference between whatever garoppolo will be and whatever the next man up will be, which could be positive or negative.

Don't get me wrong, I hope Tom Brady will be the QB of the Pats for the next 5 years, or at least the next 2, but if BB is so sure that JG is the best shot at reasonably replacing him with a competetent QB, then I'm ready to move on....mentally.

So if Brady wins his 6th and 3rd in 4 years and plays like he did last year as the best QB in the league you are comfortable with trading him so you don't lose a guy who may be competent? Really?

Emotionally I'll be a wreck and hate every photo or clip that shows Brady in another uniform. So yes, 49, having Brady retire with #6 would be my ideal result.

No ideal would be for him to come back in 2018 to win #7

Plan B would be keeping Brady and getting a decent round 2 pick for JG and cursing that we didn't trade him in this April

We didn't trade him this April because he is insurance. There is some percentage chance that Brady could sustain a serious injury affecting this season and maybe his career.

People have lost their minds turning keep a guy for insurance at the expense of MAYBE getting less in a trade with dumping the GOAT because you are afraid an unproven kid could go somewhere else and turn out to be "competent"

 

[DarrylS]

I want Brady to leave on his own terms and not on the back of a golf cart..

The Pats are playing this whole thing close to the vest and things might be clearer when we see the progress of Brissett.. imo as much as we want to believe it, JG is still unproven to the average fan....

Have always felt that in these type of threads and trade value threads the JG is rated higher than he actually is.. the reality is that we really do not know what we have in #10...

In the bowels of Gillette there is a plan in the works and the inner circle knows the timetable..

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Marino deteriorated because of a severe injury that Brady has not had. It makes no sense to compare the two.


Exactly. One that doesn't exist.




How is something that didn't happen relevant. IT DIDNT HAPPEN.



It didn't happen. Why would you discuss the ramifications of what would happen to Brady if he wasn't Brady?
I agree if Vinny testeverde took over Tom Brady's body he would suck and not be here long. Why is that a discussion? It's the same thing.


Then why are you using examples of other players?
You are right you have no clue how long he can play. So why bring up incongruent comparisons in order to imply you do?

Again...

Did something bad happen to you yesterday? You seem in a pretty ornery mood and want to pick fights over nothing.

I hate quoting myself, but you need to go back and read my first post on the matter.

The thing is we don't know if he will be a clipboard holder or not. And we don't need to make that decision right now.

Jimmy, Tom, BB, nobody knows when Brady's time will be up yet. We all have predictions and ideas. But it could be this year. Or next. Or maybe 5 years. It could happen one off-season. It could be an injury. It could happen after an incredible hot streak in the middle of the season.

Look at Peyton Manning. Over the first 12 games of the 2014 season, he's on fire, completing 67% of his passes, throwing 36 TDs vs. 9 INTs for a 107.8 RAT. And then he starts to struggle a bit, ending the regular season throwing 3 TDs vs. 6 INTs and a 76.8 RAT. This is the start of his decline, but nobody sees it because he's had such an incredible stretch, they shrug it off as a few bad games.

But he'd throw 12 TDs vs. 23 INTs in the 14 regular season games after the hot start, including a brutal playoff loss to the Colts. Of course he rode the D to a Super Bowl ring (ugh), but he was cooked as a player even in the previous season.

So you hold onto Jimmy this year, and you play the season out. You don't know what it will be. If Brady is 19-0 and looks amazing, then maybe you don't sign Jimmy. But if he starts to fade late, then it's a different story altogether.

Brady has a $22M cap hit in 2018, but if he's cut, would cost $14M in dead money. That's a lot of money to eat, but it's also technically saving $8M in cap space if they made that move. But it's contingent on what happens on the field. And none of us know exactly how that will play out. But there's also no rush to decide on whether to franchise him or not yet. The key factors to make that decision haven't even begun.

My initial point is that we don't know when it will end or what will happen. So I have no clue where you get that I'm implying I know. That's ********, but you knew that.

I added one example of a guy who lost it mid-season to point out that the drop could happen at anytime, even during a season, which started a whole discussion on how that example wasn't relevant due to Manning's injury history/surgeries/lack of HGH/whatever. The point of the example wasn't that Manning was a direct comparison to Brady. The point was that the drop could happen at any time. And it will drop at some time. Brady is not invincible. And it won't be a predictable decline.

That was seen as not a valid example of unpredictable drop-off, so I went into other players who had unexpected drop-offs. They're not meant to be direct comparisons to Brady. They're examples of how great QBs have no control over when that will happen, or how it will happen.

You even bring up Marino and how his decline was by injury, and how that doesn't apply to Brady. But it might. You don't know that. And in typical Andy Johnson fashion, you're guilty of the same accusation you're lobbing at others, except I'm innocent.

As for the hypothetical of the Super Bowl, the point is that there is no more benefit of the doubt for Brady because of his age, the media wanting blood, and the NFL hating him. If he has a bad game, he will be treated as guilty of old age until proven innocent. And if we had been blown out, all of Brady's amazing games in the regular season would have meant nothing because the narrative would have been overwhelmingly negative, even around here. It wouldn't have been, "Tom had a bad day." It would have been, "He's too old, we need to move on." Over one game.

That's not how I feel about Tom, who I have followed since his Michigan days. But that's how I feel the world will react to Tom if he has a bad game in a big spot. It isn't fair, but it is the way it's going to be until he retires.

 

[Ring 6]

Favre is definitely different, but again, he had one of the longest careers in the league at the position. The drop may be because he stayed so long.

Marino played until age 38, and clearly had lost something. But it wasn't a floor dropping fall like we saw with Favre's last season. If he had played the next season though, it might have been.

If you look at Favre's age 36/37 years, they're pretty ugly, similar to Marino's last year. But then he came back and had a mini-resurgence before lighting it up his second-last year. If he had retired at age 39 after his season with the Jets, we would have thought he had a gradual decline similar to others.

But he got two more years, and he lit it up at age 40, which raised expectations, then he dropped significantly at age 41. If he retires at 39, we talk about the gradual decline. Instead, he kept going on so we got to see the floor drop.

We don't get to say the same of Marino, Montana, Kelly and others who saw the writing on the wall early enough. If any of those guys came back for another 2 seasons, you'd see that dramatic drop-off too.

And that's the thing with Brady, we don't know where that point is. We may have eclipsed it already. We just don't know. If we didn't come back in the Super Bowl, this would look a lot different in the off-season. Brady would be seen as old and perhaps washed-up after getting blown-out in the Super Bowl. The talk would be if it's time to replace him with Jimmy. It would be like 2014 after the KC game all over again, except it would last for months because there wouldn't be Cincinnati to move onto next week.

You bring up Favre not counting, but that's the point. He was the anti-Brady, but he outlasted many contemporaries who took the job way more seriously. Nothing Brady does will guarantee anything.

I hope Tom plays until he's 50 for the Patriots, but I don't think that will happen. So the team is balancing maximizing Brady's time while ensuring they maximize how long they could potentially have insurance in case something bad happens. If BB or Brady or Jimmy or you or I knew exactly when that would be, we'd be having a different discussion, but none of us do.

What you post isntbmy fault.
You are posting about what would happen if the guy who played the greatest game in SB history choked. Who cares? It didn't happen so it is irrelevant to this player. Then you go on to say the relevance is because the league hates him and fans would say he is old. Who cares? Thise people aren't deciding his future any more than the bozos running around this board saying he will be traded will.
I do t understand the point of discussing how people who do not matter would react to the player doing something he didn't do which would only happen if he wasn't the player he is.

As far as the comparisons why are you going to such great length to compare and defend while at the same time saying hey sent related?

Once again
Marino played a few years after the injury and was clearly not the same player.
Favre did not take care of himself and aside from one miracle year showed clear signs of decline.
Manning was dealing with a serious injury for years and had no zip on the ball. His decline was more about having a bevy of wide open receivers early in his bronco career so his diminished skills weren't an issue then going to not having those wide open receivers. It was smoke and mirrors.

Tom Brady is playing as well right now as at any point in his career. None of those players were at that point.

Tom Brady is Tom Brady. He isn't someone else. So trying to analyze what will happen to him based upon what happened to others is pointless. He has taken better care of himself than any of those players. He had no lingering injuries, which all those players had. He is a better QB today than any of those QBs were at their peak.

I just do not understand the motivation behind "patriot fans" trying to support arguments to push Tom Brady out the door. Frankly it's disgusting bad ungrteful of fan base that is clearly showing (at least on this board) that they never deserved the GOAT.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

What you post isntbmy fault.
You are posting about what would happen if the guy who played the greatest game in SB history choked. Who cares? It didn't happen so it is irrelevant to this player. Then you go on to say the relevance is because the league hates him and fans would say he is old. Who cares? Thise people aren't deciding his future any more than the bozos running around this board saying he will be traded will.
I do t understand the point of discussing how people who do not matter would react to the player doing something he didn't do which would only happen if he wasn't the player he is.

As far as the comparisons why are you going to such great length to compare and defend while at the same time saying hey sent related?

Once again
Marino played a few years after the injury and was clearly not the same player.
Favre did not take care of himself and aside from one miracle year showed clear signs of decline.
Manning was dealing with a serious injury for years and had no zip on the ball. His decline was more about having a bevy of wide open receivers early in his bronco career so his diminished skills weren't an issue then going to not having those wide open receivers. It was smoke and mirrors.

Tom Brady is playing as well right now as at any point in his career. None of those players were at that point.

Tom Brady is Tom Brady. He isn't someone else. So trying to analyze what will happen to him based upon what happened to others is pointless. He has taken better care of himself than any of those players. He had no lingering injuries, which all those players had. He is a better QB today than any of those QBs were at their peak.

I just do not understand the motivation behind "patriot fans" trying to support arguments to push Tom Brady out the door. Frankly it's disgusting bad ungrteful of fan base that is clearly showing (at least on this board) that they never deserved the GOAT.

Andy, I really don't know why this is a thing for you. But I know that there's only so many ways I can explain something before I have to accept someone just isn't going to get it. So we're there.

We're making similar points. I want Brady to stay, and I don't think anyone can know with any certainty how it ends. We agree on those two things I think. Do we agree on those two things at least?

If so, the rest of what I wrote is in support of those two points. Maybe you don't like it, maybe you don't understand it, but it all feeds back to those two main points. The rest may be stupid and unnecessary in your mind, but so long as we agree on the two key points above, there's really no point in continuing on this discussion. You can go annoy someone else.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, I really don't know why this is a thing for you. But I know that there's only so many ways I can explain something before I have to accept someone just isn't going to get it. So we're there.

We're making similar points. I want Brady to stay, and I don't think anyone can know with any certainty how it ends. We agree on those two things I think. Do we agree on those two things at least?

If so, the rest of what I wrote is in support of those two points. Maybe you don't like it, maybe you don't understand it, but it all feeds back to those two main points. The rest may be stupid and unnecessary in your mind, but so long as we agree on the two key points above, there's really no point in continuing on this discussion. You can go annoy someone else.

I struggle to understand how pondering Brady's future if he choked in the SB or citing QBs who declined with no commonalities to Brady is saying the same thing as me saying there is nothing indicating Brady is anywhere near the end.

Giving evidence of the likelihood or decline or inventing an alternative universe where he is a failure would seem unequivicoably to be an attempt to imply the end may be near.

We differ in that I see no evidence the end is near and you are making up incongruent examples to imply the end is near.

If you can't understand that please respond to someone who won't challenge the folly of your approach.
No one is forcing you to defend your position, if you do not want to, do not reply to my posts. But if you want to reply to my posts my responses will be to expect you to defend your position.
Simple as that.

 

[fgssand]

I can't believe how "fans" on this board are selling out Tom Brady. It's disgusting.

Agreed......

Furthermore, should he win SB this year --- I do not see how he could possibly be denied going for the THREEPEAT!