Can we finally stop pretending that Cam is good?

[sean10mm]

Brady's "horrendous" was 12-4 and 24 passing TDs, Cam's was 7-9 and 8 passing TDs. Just...come on, man.

 

[gobesmug]

Because Brady went to an offense filled with weapons and threw 50 TDs en route to a Super Bowl MVP immediately after leaving the Patriots. And also the fact that he has been a much, much, much better passer than Cam Newton throughout his career (was a better passer than Newton when Cam won his MVP even). So yeah, Tom gets the benefit of the doubt on that front.

Cam will finish in the top 10 for QB stats this year, book it.

Also Brady threw for 40tds, don't lie to inflate the stats.

Brady is the goat and the fact he had one of his worst seasons ever in 19 to bounce back with a great season only further proves my point.

No QB was going to succeed with the garbage on offense the last 2 years. Not the goat, and certainly not an above average QB either

 

[yukon cornelius]

Brady's "horrendous" was 12-4 and 24 passing TDs, Cam's was 7-9 and 8 passing TDs. Just...come on, man.

the NEP in 2019 were 12-4......the NEP in 2020 were 7-9

 

[jah]

the NEP in 2019 were 12-4......the NEP in 2020 were 7-9

To make the comparison more interesting, let's consider the fact that the 2019 Patriots had two very distinct phases. They were a dominant team in the first part of the season, and an average/slightly below average team after a certain point around halfway in. That's not my subjective interpretation either, I'm just going off the W/L records.

Is it a coincidence that we went 7-9 the following year with a largely identical (if not worse) roster minus Brady? To me, that indicates we may have had the same 2020 results even with the GOAT. The late 2019 and 2020 teams were a lot more similar than people (especially the Brady people) want to admit.

The Patriots have always succeeded and failed as a team. I wish people would stop this black and white thinking about Brady/Belichick/whatever.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

Brady's "horrendous" was 12-4 and 24 passing TDs, Cam's was 7-9 and 8 passing TDs. Just...come on, man.

Found that comment interesting. That season was horrendous but cams 2020 was "context."

 

[reflexblue]

It's possible that his shoulder injury might have arose from standing in the pocket for too long and letting himself get hit once too often. That would happen if he wasn't able to go through his reads fast enough because of brain fog. Of course, it's all pure speculation on my part, but I'm thinking why not just give him one more shot at it. I do know he's had a history of shoulder injuries.

Great point about the reads. He didn't have good pocket awareness, maybe that stemmed from the slow reads. I thought about the possible shoulder injury, we never heard any hint o an injury last fall or during the off season. Even though the pats are tight lipped about injuries something usually leaks, and nothing has.

 

[sean10mm]

Found that comment interesting. That season was horrendous but cams 2020 was "context."

I think it's what the kids these days call "telling on yourself."

 

[lancerman]

To make the comparison more interesting, let's consider the fact that the 2019 Patriots had two very distinct phases. They were a dominant team in the first part of the season, and an average/slightly below average team after a certain point around halfway in. That's not my subjective interpretation either, I'm just going off the W/L records.

Is it a coincidence that we went 7-9 the following year with a largely identical (if not worse) roster minus Brady? To me, that indicates we may have had the same 2020 results even with the GOAT. The late 2019 and 2020 teams were a lot more similar than people (especially the Brady people) want to admit.

The Patriots have always succeeded and failed as a team. I wish people would stop this black and white thinking about Brady/Belichick/whatever.

Yeah we lost AB, Edelman and Gordon got banged up and we were relying on Dorsett as our number 1 and started playing defenses that weren’t mega garbage we got rocked back to Earth and we played a harder schedule in 2020 and started at a lower point receiver wise with a new QB. This team was maybe 10-6 tops with Brady.

 

[sean10mm]

I'm not a Brady Truther who thinks he was going to do what he did on the 2020 Bucs on the 2020 Pats. They had a way better roster.

But were people just not watching those 2020 Pats games at all? Because I *liked* Cam, but watching him throw down the stretch made me wince. The act of throwing looked god-awful on a basic physical level way to often to just go "whelp, I'm sure it will just magically clear itself up."

Again, if the thesis is that Cam's problems are too complex and multifaceted to be explained in terms of one or even a few simple things like "arm dead go home lol", then why is their SOLUTION assumed to be simple? The blithe belief that Cam will be good in 2021 feels a lot like the Stidham truthers going into 2020 just believing he'd be the starter like it's no big deal.

 

[Nunchucks]

Clearly this team is built for Stidhim and people will be calling for him by game 3

 

[luuked]

then why is their SOLUTION assumed to be simple? The blithe belief that Cam will be good in 2021 feels a lot like the Stidham truthers going into 2020 just believing he'd be the starter like it's no big deal.

So that is the windmill you created for yourself. Exactly who is saying the solution to it is simple ? Please show me the posts that say it will all be good because a few hours ago I wrote this:

I don't know if I am right or how feasible is to make him more consistent. He has an entire offseason to learn the offense and work with a QB coach on his footwork. I am just tired of reading how he wasn't able to throw a ball, because that you can refute easily by checking out any of last year's games.

Consistency is king when it comes to QBs. And that is one he failed miserably.

You are making up some BS point nobody made and are then arguing against it. Working with QB coach doesn't automatically fix your problems. It puts you on the right track but he has to put in the work continuously and grind away at it. You will never fix the way his throwing mechanics look but the aesthetics are utterly irrelevant if the bottom line is there.

He will always need a bigger margin for error in his receiving options than Brady did, but on the flipside he also unlocks a part of the offense with his mobility that Brady could have never given us.

If he can be an above average QB with the combination of more consistent (not perfect, but substantially more) footwork and a better understanding where his outlets are against the various defensive formations then this combined with a mauling run game and reinforced 2 TE offense will be enough for a big jump on offense.

If he can't then odds are he will not make it through camp.

 

[Nunchucks]

Also 2019 offensive line was a mess along with the running game. Cam had a phenomenal OL and running game.

 

[RIpats88]

Also 2019 offensive line was a mess along with the running game. Cam had a phenomenal OL and running game.

But worse receivers. Brady at points during the season had Edelman, gordon, antonio brown, dorsett.

Let's not turn this into brady vs cam argument. Fact is brady threw 25tds in 2019 and 40 in 2020. What changed that allowed him to throw 15 more tds? The talent he was throwing to.

So, it wouldn't be difficult stretch to say cam newton was affected by the receiver talent if Brady the GOAT was. And cam newtons top receiver was meyers.

Now how much he was affected, and how much was decline in talent is another argument. But the receiving talent IS a factor to consider

 

[Nunchucks]

But worse receivers. Brady at points during the season had Edelman, gordon, antonio brown, dorsett.

Let's not turn this into brady vs cam argument. Fact is brady threw 25tds in 2019 and 40 in 2020. What changed that allowed him to throw 15 more tds? The talent he was throwing to.

So, it wouldn't be difficult stretch to say cam newton was affected by the receiver talent if Brady the GOAT was. And cam newtons top receiver was meyers.

Now how much he was affected, and how much was decline in talent is another argument. But the receiving talent IS a factor to consider

Except we know that cam had wide open guys and never saw them or threw to the wrong guy...plus play action was great at getting guys open...just not so great for Cam

 

[sb1]

Clearly this team is built for Stidhim and people will be calling for him by game 3

He'll probably be cut by the start of September.

 

[RIpats88]

Except we know that cam had wide open guys and never saw them or threw to the wrong guy...plus play action was great at getting guys open...just not so great for Cam

Alot of that stuff is mental though which you would hope could be coached with a full offseason. I'm not saying Cam newton will be MVP cam. but he might be more than serviceable for a year with a better team around him and more familiarity. Now, this is all contingent IMO on drafting a guy high in the first round. if Cam is our long term solution I will change my tune.

Hurley: Yes, Cam Newton Is Capable Of Quarterbacking A Potent Patriots Offense In 2021

The notion that Cam Newton cannot complete a pass has spread like wildfire in New England. It's so wrong. Let's take a look.

boston.cbslocal.com

this article kind of states the same thing.

Either way, I dont think the Patriots see him as the answer. He's either a one year answer and they move up and trade for a guy like Lance to sit behind him and take over in 2022 or Jimmy G becomes available and they bring him in.

 

[PP2]

He'll probably be cut by the start of September.

Camp arm.

 

[XLIX]

I'm sure the Pats organization is right up there with the best at crossing their t's and dotting their i's, but because of the player union, there's only so much they can do. The rest is up to the player's ability to conduct himself once away from the facilities. Obviously Cam didn't.

The Patriots most certainly can - and should - bench/inactivate any player not operating at full cognitive abilities.

 

[RIpats88]

The Patriots most certainly can - and should - bench/inactivate any player not operating at full cognitive abilities.

Problem is their alternative was Stidham. Maybe someday we will find out what happened with him.

He was ordained the starter. Then cam signed for vet minimum and he couldn't even beat out hoyer. And then as bad as cam newton was playing Bill still had him sit on the bench.

 

[Kdo5]

To make the comparison more interesting, let's consider the fact that the 2019 Patriots had two very distinct phases. They were a dominant team in the first part of the season, and an average/slightly below average team after a certain point around halfway in. That's not my subjective interpretation either, I'm just going off the W/L records.

Is it a coincidence that we went 7-9 the following year with a largely identical (if not worse) roster minus Brady? To me, that indicates we may have had the same 2020 results even with the GOAT. The late 2019 and 2020 teams were a lot more similar than people (especially the Brady people) want to admit.

The Patriots have always succeeded and failed as a team. I wish people would stop this black and white thinking about Brady/Belichick/whatever.

When had that ever happened in the past 20 years that Brady QB'ed a team under ten wins? One time in Brady's second year. When was the last time Brady has ever led a team to a sub-.500 record? Never.

Let's not get stupid with this belief that we'd have been the same team regardless of whether Brady's here. That's totally asinine.