Calling Burgess a LB

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Nov 29th

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mgteich

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Many don't like calling Burgess a linebacker. Perhaps it is better to have a position called
OLB/DE/passrusher. It would seem that Burgess and Cunningham fit that role, and perhaps Ninkovich.

DE 3
NT 2
DT 1
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OLB/DE 2
----------------------
ILB 3
OLB 3
ST/dvlpmental 1
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THIS SEASON COMPARED TO LAST - MY TAKE
A) Spikes and McKenzie replace Alexander and Seau, taking the open ILB and ST positions
B) Cunningham takes the roster spot of Thomas
C) Burgess, Woods and Ninkovich are back.
D) Mayo is healthy.
E) The inside should be much improved, especially with the addition of a vet DT.
F) Crable could beat out Burgess or Ninkovich or be a 16th front 7 player, or not.
G) We could keep a 7th defensive lineman, or not.
H) By Game One, we likely won't have 16 front seven players that we want to keep; an injury or two will take care of that (as is normal).



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Elijah

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If Crable beats anyone, it's Burgess, I think. I have a feeling BB will give him priority because of his age. You'd have to think that he likes Crable because he's still on the team after 2 IR seasons...
 

PatsWickedPissah

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If Crable beats anyone, it's Burgess, I think. I have a feeling BB will give him priority because of his age. You'd have to think that he likes Crable because he's still on the team after 2 IR seasons...

I don't think it's likes; it's simply that he has yet to see the guy in football action so that he can have sufficient info to decide to keep or cut him. Should The Crab get seriously injured yet again this training camp, it might become cut with an injury settlement.
 

Deus Irae

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You can call Burgess whatever you want. LB, DE, Munkuahuanga the burly man, whatever floats your boat....

It really doesn't matter. Last year, he was a pass rushing specialist playing in a 3-point stance.

In the 133 defensive snaps that he played in the final four games last year, Burgess was almost always in the same place – rushing off the defensive left side in a three-point stance.

Where does Derrick Burgess fit? - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston
 

patfanken

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Alexander is SUCH a consistently productive special teams player, plus he gives BB a guy who can play inside or outside, Plus BB knows that he will at least know where he is supposed to be in every defensive alignment. For these reasons, IMHO he will be a very hard guy to knock off the roster. Much harder than those who have consistently predicted his demise for most of his time here.

However if this is REALLY the year when he finally gets cut, it will bode very well for both Crable and the rest of the young LB corps. EVERY non-starting LB will have to show that he can be able to play special teams well if he wants a roster spot.

In fact I think we can call it the "Alexander barometer." If he gets cut it means BB is happy with Crabel and the rest of the LBs. If he makes the team, Crabel is gone and questions will remain about the most questioned position on the Pats roster.
 

supafly

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Alexander is SUCH a consistently productive special teams player, plus he gives BB a guy who can play inside or outside, Plus BB knows that he will at least know where he is supposed to be in every defensive alignment. For these reasons, IMHO he will be a very hard guy to knock off the roster. Much harder than those who have consistently predicted his demise for most of his time here.

However if this is REALLY the year when he finally gets cut, it will bode very well for both Crable and the rest of the young LB corps. EVERY non-starting LB will have to show that he can be able to play special teams well if he wants a roster spot.

In fact I think we can call it the "Alexander barometer." If he gets cut it means BB is happy with Crabel and the rest of the LBs. If he makes the team, Crabel is gone and questions will remain about the most questioned position on the Pats roster.

I think your barometer theory is interesting, and could be right. Or it could be that Alexander's special team presence will be quickly replaced by a younger starter too--which is what I expect.

Count me as someone who thinks there's no way that Alexander stays another year. I wouldn't want him playing inside, outside, in between, or upside down. And I think whatever he brings on ST will be easily replaced by a starter--or at least someone who sees the field on occasion. Now that we have Spikes and McKenzie at ILB, there's not anywhere Alexander fits anymore. And I'd doubt he'd play outside even if Crable somehow gets cut.

But I respect your opinion of course, and your barometer theory just may be correct--or at least relevant.
 

RayClay

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Alexander is SUCH a consistently productive special teams player, plus he gives BB a guy who can play inside or outside, Plus BB knows that he will at least know where he is supposed to be in every defensive alignment. For these reasons, IMHO he will be a very hard guy to knock off the roster. Much harder than those who have consistently predicted his demise for most of his time here.

However if this is REALLY the year when he finally gets cut, it will bode very well for both Crable and the rest of the young LB corps. EVERY non-starting LB will have to show that he can be able to play special teams well if he wants a roster spot.

In fact I think we can call it the "Alexander barometer." If he gets cut it means BB is happy with Crabel and the rest of the LBs. If he makes the team, Crabel is gone and questions will remain about the most questioned position on the Pats roster.


Yes, if Alexander makes the team it means our linebacker acquisitions have failed, unless our special teams are also awful and he makes it there.

I hadn't realized he was considered an inept OLB as well as ILB, but he has no role in the regular defense unless we have failed.
 

mgteich

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I think it DOES matter what you call Alexander. He is a special teamer who did not play on the regular defense, any more than Slater did. or Lockett or Arrington.

We don't know how many "special team Only" positions there will be. That depends on injuries. However, Alexander is certainly a candidate with those mentioned above, and Aiken.

None of the five players mentioned above should be considered a position player, although Aiken could be a receiver with two injuries of receivers on the 53.
==========

If Alexander makes the team, it will be because he is needed as a special teamer more than we need a 9th or 10th linebacker.

Yes, if Alexander makes the team it means our linebacker acquisitions have failed, unless our special teams are also awful and he makes it there.

I hadn't realized he was considered an inept OLB as well as ILB, but he has no role in the regular defense unless we have failed.
 
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RayClay

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yeah, but reiss only gave him the last 4, and he's too lazy to go look at the rest.

I think we all agree that Burgess, who has spent a career at it, is more comfortable and better as a pass rushing DE.

This is just another way of saying what no one argues with.

Our OLB situation is far from settled, though.
 

RayClay

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I think it DOES matter what you call Alexander. He is a special teamer who did not play on the regular defense, any more than Slater did. or Lockett or Arrington.

We don't know how many "special team Only" positions there will be. That depends on injuries. However, Alexander is certainly a candidate with those mentioned above, and Aiken.



None of the five players mentioned above should be considered a position player, although Aiken could be a receiver with two injuries of receivers on the 53.
==========

If Alexander makes the team, it will be because he is needed as a special teamer more than we need a 9th or 10th linebacker.

Yes, that is my take. we might have very limited spots for outstanding special teamers. We drafted 24 players in the last two years. We drafted 5 LBs in rounds 1-3 just in the last 3 years, after zero for Belichick era before.

It's simple mathematics. Some of the players have been filler while we beefed up the offense and defensive line. There will be no more free passes, unless we dropped some pretty big bombs in the last two drafts.

I imagine some talented position players will need to excel on teams to win a job, which is fine with me and not so good for the JAGS.
 
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Deus Irae

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Yes, that was his best role. However, he played in 16 games last year, not four.

yeah, but reiss only gave him the last 4, and he's too lazy to go look at the rest.

Unless you think his role was drastically altered from that of all around player to one-trick pony from game 1 to game 12, there was no need to point to the earlier games and break down every single snap.

However, eom, since you claim that it was laziness, as opposed to having readily available information and not needing to break down every game to make a post about a general point, perhaps you should go back and break down every snap the man took over the course of the season and share the results with us, just to verify that the trend was not a 4 game blip.

After all, I'm sure you're not lazy.
 
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RayClay

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Unless you think his role was drastically altered from that of all around player to one-trick pony from game 1 to game 12, there was no need to point to the earlier games and break down every single snap.

However, eom, since you claim that it was laziness, as opposed to having readily available information and not needing to break down every game to make a post about a general point, perhaps you should go back and break down every snap the man took over the course of the season and share the results with us, just to verify that the trend was not a 4 game blip.

After all, I'm sure you're not lazy.

Reiss said that in his best stretch he was used almost exclusively in that role, implying that he was not used exclusively in that role at other times.
 

Deus Irae

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Reiss said that in his best stretch he was used almost exclusively in that role, implying that he was not used exclusively in that role at other times.

I read the piece. I found no such implicaton. I wouldn't be shocked to find that the team had tried Burgess in coverage on a few occasions and just decided that he wasn't up to the task at the time, but that's certainly not what Reiss wrote.
 
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RayClay

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I read the piece. I found no such implicaton. I wouldn't be shocked to find that the team had tried Burgess in coverage on a few occasions and just decided that he wasn't up to the task at the time, but that's certainly not what Reiss wrote.

So you're saying he played DE with his hand on the ground all season, so Reiss noted that he played DE with his hand on the ground the last four games, but those last four were somehow different than the other twelve.

Saying a nine year veteran is better at what he's done his whole career, than something else (though you say there was nothing else) is not exactly a revelation.

Yes, a former pro bowl 4-3 DE is good at that. Doesn't seem worth writing a story about, does it?
 
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Deus Irae

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So you're saying he played DE with his hand on the ground all season, so Reiss noted that he played DE with his hand on the ground the last four games, but those last four were somehow different than the other twelve.

Saying a nine year veteran is better at what he's done his whole career, than something else (though you say there was nothing else) is not exactly a revelation.

Yes, a former pro bowl 4-3 DE is good at that. Doesn't seem worth writing a story about, does it?

Actually, given that he's just rejoined the team and that his "shining moment" last season, such as it was, was the final quarter of the season, it's as worthy of being written about as pretty much anything else being written during this portion of the offseason.

And, I'm not saying anything in the piece. That's Reiss doing it. Perhaps you think that Burgess started the season as a coverage linebacker and watched his role completely change over the course of the season?

Lastly, that former pro bowl DE wasn't very good at it last season. That's why Reiss, and others, point to those last 4 games rather than the entire year.
 
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RayClay

Hall of Fame Poster
Actually, given that he's just rejoined the team and that his "shining moment" last season, such as it was, was the final quarter of the season, it's as worthy of being written about as pretty much anything else being written during this portion of the offseason.

And, I'm not saying anything in the piece. That's Reiss doing it. Perhaps you think that Burgess started the season as a coverage linebacker and watched his role completely change over the course of the season?

Lastly, that former pro bowl DE wasn't very good at it last season. That's why Reiss, and others, point to those last 4 games rather than the entire year.

In the 133 defensive snaps that he played in the final four games last year, Burgess was almost always in the same place – rushing off the defensive left side in a three-point stance.
.................
 

eom

In the Starting Line-Up
Unless you think his role was drastically altered from that of all around player to one-trick pony from game 1 to game 12, there was no need to point to the earlier games and break down every single snap.

However, eom, since you claim that it was laziness, as opposed to having readily available information and not needing to break down every game to make a post about a general point, perhaps you should go back and break down every snap the man took over the course of the season and share the results with us, just to verify that the trend was not a 4 game blip.

After all, I'm sure you're not lazy.

first of all, you're about as close to the target here as in every other post --- I'm very lazy.

secondly, I have tabulated and broken down snaps already in a burgess thread, as well as some thread about wilhite, or whatever it was, so I think I've taken my turn, and as I couldn't give a crap about this particular subject or the endless bickering you seem to live for, I'll have to leave it to you.

spend the time on bringing info to the thread that you'd normally spend spamming it with irrelevant bickering, would be my suggestion.
 
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