By the numbers: Patricia's offense downright offensive

[Joker]

Question: what has 22 legs yet cannot move?

. Sad but true.

 

[venecol]

So he played poorly against Chicago because of his practice reps, but with the same reps he played fairly well against GB because he’s fearless? Can’t have that both ways, either the reps matter or they don’t

Are you implying practice reps don't matter?

He only had 15 pass attempts in the GB game, Pats rushed for 167 yds. He had 22 attempts in the CHI game, they ran for 70 yds (47 by RBs). Not sure what you're so focused on. That Zappe doesn't need any practice to be good or bad? OK. He wasn't that bad in CHI given the circumstances. CHI shut down our run game and our D couldn't stop them. Pats D gave up 243 rushing yards. Everyone played like crap in that game. That loss was not on Zappe.

 

[All3Phases]

Are you implying practice reps don't matter?

He only had 15 pass attempts in the GB game, Pats rushed for 167 yds. He had 22 attempts in the CHI game, they ran for 70 yds (47 by RBs). Not sure what you're so focused on. That Zappe doesn't need any practice to be good or bad? OK. He wasn't that bad in CHI given the circumstances. CHI shut down our run game and our D couldn't stop them. Pats D gave up 243 rushing yards. Everyone played like crap in that game. That loss was not on Zappe.

No, my point was…he was garbage regardless of circumstance against CHI, so was Mac…I just don’t give Zappe a pass, because we’ve seen him play well under the same circumstances like 3 weeks earlier…I understand everybody was bad against the bears, but if he can’t function unless everything is perfect, how good is he really? Same goes for Mac

 

[venecol]

No, my point was…he was garbage regardless of circumstance against CHI, so was Mac…I just don’t give Zappe a pass, because we’ve seen him play well under the same circumstances like 3 weeks earlier…I understand everybody was bad against the bears, but if he can’t function unless everything is perfect, how good is he really? Same goes for Mac

Maybe, but it's hard to compare a back-up rookie with a 2nd year vet.

 

[All3Phases]

Maybe, but it's hard to compare a back-up rookie with a 2nd year vet.

That’s fair, imo poor is poor, just that I don’t really care to name excuses as to why. Mac certainly has excuses this year for example, but he’s still been poor no matter which way you slice it

 

[thecore762]

Why did we put patricia a D coordinator incharge and that too of a new offense and expect him to deliver. is it really his fault? No team tries this stuff except we did.

BB thinks he is a genius and thinks that he can turn every one of his coaching staff into gold and thinks they can do their jobs well for any positions.

 

[Uptown]

 

[Thelonious]

I do not see ANY reason worth a d---n NOT to fire Matt and Joe immediately. They are not even minimally competent. I would anticiapate no "drop off" if Nick Kaley (sp?) were to take over, or any other modestly competent offensive coach for that matter. I'd look for an improvement, in short order. Matt and Joe don't know what they are doing, and they have obviously lost the respect and confidence of the team. Bill's judgment on this matter has been inexplicably bad. He and the Krafts will and should have a serious talk about it. Bill has done a flamingly lousy job this year, arguably in other respects as well. He seems kinda...weird. It's baffling. And it's unacceptable, this being a bottom line busness, so we are told.

The REASON we need a new interim regime on the offensive side of the ball is that without that change we are struggling to discover whether Mac Jones is or is not good enough to go with as a "franchise quarterback." Things have been SO mismanaged this year that a secure take on Mac's worth is simply impossible. Get somebody in there who can put together even a solid generic scheme so we can see what Mac can do in an offense that doesn't make success impossible play after play, game after game.

We have been mislead by Bill's rep this year. The Matt/Joe thing, we all knew from the start I think, was an inexplicably stupid choice, obviously so. We chose our hopes, based on Bill's past successes, over the evidence of our eyes and our common sense.

Patricia and Judge are no good at their jobs, and they have to go now. Let's finally stop pretending otherwise.

 

[jdlboot14]

Patricia is the OL coach and OC/playcaller. Both areas have been THE WORST we've seen in decades.
Yes, it's BB's fault because he put him there. But, he also has the responsibility and authority to fix it.
If he doesn't fix it by removing him, we know he's not trying to improve the team.
If this was a starting player failing continually for 12 weeks, he'd be benched for the next guy up to test potential these last 5 games.
It's hard to tell how much Judge is screwing up Mac vs. Patricia. But Patricia has the primary role.
Sadly though BB is very stubborn, and won't do anything during the season.

 

[crawhammer]

No, I didn’t say “Patricia is a QB whisperer,” I said he looked like one. It was a comment on how poorly Mac was playing that Zappe stepped in and put up efficiency stats not seen by a first time starter since the 1950’s… oh yeah and the Patriots offense put up a season high scoring total.

I would contend Zappe is the better quarterback for this 2022 team. One advantage Zappe has over Mac is he's learning this new offense in a vacuum. Mac's contending with a transition between two very different systems... which goes back to the decision to even make a change that imo was not warranted. It's apparent Mac prefers the prior system, you know the one where he actually looked good at times, and now the frustration is boiling over for him (and some of his teammates).

Just looking at optimizing their opportunity for success this season, I'm going back to Zappe to close out the season. If he plays well and the team wins then hopefully you can get a look at him in the postseason too. It'll give you a broader view of what you may have in that player. I think with Mac it'll be more of the same and an 8-9 finish.

 

[Thelonious]

I would contend Zappe is the better quarterback for this 2022 team. One advantage Zappe has over Mac is he's learning this new offense in a vacuum. Mac's contending with a transition between two very different systems... which goes back to the decision to even make a change that imo was not warranted. It's apparent Mac prefers the prior system, you know the one where he actually looked good at times, and now the frustration is boiling over for him (and some of his teammates).

Just looking at optimizing their opportunity for success this season, I'm going back to Zappe to close out the season. If he plays well and the team wins then hopefully you can get a look at him in the postseason too. It'll give you a broader view of what you may have in that player. I think with Mac it'll be more of the same and an 8-9 finish.

I thought this way for a while. It's clear to me, if you look at the data, that Zappe has outplayed Mac this year. I understand that there are mitigating factors re Mac's subpar performance this year, but even if you make some pretty generous allowances for him, I think it remains clear that Zappe has been the better quarterback. That said, because of the abysmally bad coaching on the offensive side of the ball, Mac, one could argue, has not had a fair shake, has not been afforded an opportunity to show what he can do. Add to this that he did perform well at least for the first half of his rookie season, and that given where he was drafted the team has a considerable investment in him, and you begin to see the case for giving Mac the rest of the year to show what he can do. This option, however, is in my mind pointless if Matt/Joe are not tossed out on their (r)ears, so that Mac can work in an offense that bears at least SOME resemblance to an actual NFL offense.

If the Pats were to choose to give Zappe another look, something he has pretty much earned in all honesty, I wouldn't mind, but I understand as well the need for a longer look at Mac. On balance, by a pretty slim margin, I would favor the latter, but it is clear to me that next year, Zappe should CERTAINLY have a fair, probably an equal shot at the job along with Mac. Zappe has earned the right to participate in a genuine competition for the job. Even if the offensive coaching is somewhat squared away, I don't think there is time this year for Mac to demonstrate that Zappe ought to be deprived of that opportunity, given his own lousy play, whatever the circumstances, this year.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

I really think its time for BB to retire. He's lost it! Keeping Patricia as OC is stupid.

Bill Belichick Ends Speculation Of Patriots Demoting Matt Patricia

For better or for worse, it sounds like Matt Patricia will remain the New England Patriots' offensive play-caller for the rest of the season.

nesn.com

 

[archstanton543]

He's not the OC. Not by title. The Pats have no OC...technically.

 

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]

 

[Tom Tupa]

I have a bad feeling we'll still be talking about this come December 5, 2023. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[borg]

Bill Belichick Ends Speculation Of Patriots Demoting Matt Patricia

For better or for worse, it sounds like Matt Patricia will remain the New England Patriots' offensive play-caller for the rest of the season.

nesn.com

Why was today's new thread that featured this NESN article merged into this thread.
Talk about burying the lead
Ridiculous
The single most relevant news regarding this organization and one has to go searching for it 39 pages and 775 posts into a tired thread

In the meantime, mods apparently have no issue with very important threads like....

-Very Funny Bengals Girl
-Drew Brees Possibly Struck By Lightning
-Pregame meal: What's everyone doing ?
-Jeff Howe's clickbait Brady Fantasy

 

[PowerRunRevival]

I don't like Bill's answer. The best time to start to improve the offense is now, not in the offseason and it's clearly not working now. If I was Bill I would take away play calling from Patricia and just not tell anyone. That way Patricia saves face and Bill doesn't feel like he's throwing someone he likes under the bus. Let Patricia call plays into his headset, just turn his headset off so no one else has to hear what he's saying.

With how poorly the offense has played, I don't care if there are growing pains I want them to start moving towards the offense that they will run next season. I want to see something that gives me hope the offense will be fixed next year. If they aren't going to replace Patricia as the play caller, at least replace him as the offensive line coach. The oline has really hurt the ability to run the plays called, so it's sometimes hard to tell if it's Patricia the OC or Patricia that O line coach who is failing (I think it's both).

I was willing to give Patricia some time to acclimate to the offensive side as he's never coached there before. The offense hasn't shown much improvement and in fact probably have made more mental errors as the season has progressed. It was hubris from Bill thinking that not only could Matt learn to be a play caller but he also could coach the line. They need to hire a dedicated line coach, a dedicated OC, move Judge back to special teams and have Matt as a special assistant that discusses concepts and ideas with Bill.

 

[captain stone]

I'm actually encouraged by Bill's answer... Better than saying "I don't see any reasons to make any changes etc..."

 

[ashley]

I'm actually encouraged by Bill's answer... Better than saying "I don't see any reasons to make any changes etc..."

The bottom line is we're going to need a "true full time offensive coordinator" next year. I think BOB will make a great choice. Any thoughts on him? Bring him back to reunite with Mac?