Patriots Rumor Butler & Saints working towards finalizing a deal (Thread now UFC Pats Fans Event)

[moosekill]

Of course Ken, your post that the #11 is not going to happen is also speculation.

I think people here constantly ignore players contracts, both for length as well as $$$$$, and think that if a player is really good you should get more for him. So Cook with his 2 years of team control may well be worth more than Butler with his 1 year of team control, even if all things being equal, Butler might be worth more.

 

[varjao]

I'm not so sure it is all that far-fetched. The Panthers went from 7-8-1 in 2014 to the Super Bowl in 2015. The Falcons went from 8-8 in 2015 to the Super Bowl in 2016. Not so ridiculous to think an NFC team with a fantastic offense and top-flight QB could go from 7-9 to being a serious contender with some improvement on defense, especially since 7 of those losses were by a TD or less.

They would have to nail in the draft for that to be a possibility, their defense is among the worst in the league for years now that raises questions not only about the players but coaching staff too.

Fantastic offense is a reach and the Saints have a historical problem playing on the road under Sean Payton/Brees.

The Falcons is a much more balanced team and I don't know what to expect from the Panthers honestly.

 

[ivanvamp]

So it is your believe that belichick cheated by discussing trading a player who isn't under contract.

Where is it in the rules that you cannot discuss a player who is a free agent?

Teams openly talk about free agents all the time. Is it really against the rules for BB to say, "Look, if he signs the tender with us, we'll trade him to you for XYZ..."?

 

[QuantumMechanic]

So it is your believe that belichick cheated by discussing trading a player who isn't under contract.

Can you attempt some minimal reading comprehension effort even once before you mouth off?

I'll take you through it niiiiiiiiiice and simple. Please try to keep up, would you?

First, some poster posted a screengrab of someone relaying what Pat Kirwan said on some radio or TV show.
Second, another poster quoted that screengrab and said something like "Kirwan's crazy. Belichick will never give up something to do a buddy a solid".
Third, I quoted the second poster and stated that "Belichick doing someone a solid" doesn't follow from what Kirwan said and laid out what it appeared to me Kirwan was saying and why, even assuming (note the italicized word please, Andy) what Kirwan (again, please note the italics) said was true, Belichick isn't giving Payton any favors.

 

[raduray]

Giardi who has made it known he is Butler and his agents mouth piece in the media pretty much said he's looking for Gilmore money

In one more year, if he continues playing the way he has, he'll be an unrestricted free agent and will be able to negotiate Gilmore money. But right now, it's apples and oranges.

 

[XLIX]

So it is your believe that belichick cheated by discussing trading a player who isn't under contract.

If you believe Belichick and Payton didn't say a single word to each other about Butler and what it would take for the Saints to get him from NE, I can sell you the Ted Williams Tunnel for a great price. You get to keep all the toll money. You'll make a fortune!!

 

[XLIX]

They would have to nail in the draft for that to be a possibility, their defense is among the worst in the league for years now that raises questions not only about the players but coaching staff too.

I disagree. What major changes did the Panthers gain during their improvement year? Or the Falcons? In today's NFL - especially the NFC which doesn't have the Patriots in it - it doesn't really take much to improve by 4 of 5 games and become a contender overnight.

As noted before, the Saints lost 7 games by a TD or less. It wouldn't require a major overhaul to improve the team

 

[JMC00]

 

[Marqui]

Hopefully that suggests the Butler deal is collapsing.

 

[Ring 6]

Questions for everyone who thinks the Patriots are going to dig their heels in for the #11 pick in the draft:

1. How many players have been given a first-round tender in the last 8-10 years and signed on with another team, with their new team willing to give up their first round pick?

2. Do you believe that, of all the franchise-type players who received a first-round tender, Malcolm Butler would be the one who breaks this tradition (of no one even considering giving up their first round pick) because he is that good?

I think it's crazy to believe the Patriots are going to get the Saints #11 overall pick. In addition to the fact that teams never give up their first round picks to sign an RFA, (a) this is a very strong draft, and (b) the Saints pick is #11; it's not like they are picking late in the first round. Any reports that the Patriots are expecting the #11 overall pick can be explained by their justified paranoia that they will be accused and punished for talking about an unsigned player. To cover for this, they are going by the book, which is that since they haven't talked to the Saints, they would follow NFL protocol which is that the Saints would give up their own first round pick. That hardly means they actually mean that or expect to get it. If they said anything otherwise, it looks fishy, like a deal was already worked out.

Teams treat their first round picks like a pot of gold. That being said, it is possible the Saints are willing to trade #31 back to the Patriots, as that move would make more sense.

Chandler Jones got us a second round pick last year...he is considered an elite pass rusher and would have at least as high a market value as Butler, probably even higher. Although Arizona did not have a long-term deal in place with him which may have increased the trade risk, they seemed quite sure they would sign him to a long-term deal and break the bank.

Remember since the new cba mostly only udfas make it to restricted FA because of the required rookie contract length.

 

[Ring 6]

Where is it in the rules that you cannot discuss a player who is a free agent?

Teams openly talk about free agents all the time. Is it really against the rules for BB to say, "Look, if he signs the tender with us, we'll trade him to you for XYZ..."?

No. BB himself has said this abd Lombardi also has.
You cannot discuss trading a player you do not have under contract. I mean it's also common sense, you have no rights to the player.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Clearly hes not Malcolm but Sterling has carved out a nice career for himself.

Not sure if this move means they've moved on from Malcolm.

 

[Ring 6]

If you believe Belichick and Payton didn't say a single word to each other about Butler and what it would take for the Saints to get him from NE, I can sell you the Ted Williams Tunnel for a great price. You get to keep all the toll money. You'll make a fortune!!

Ok so I will mark you down as believing belichick is a cheater and a liar.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

What exactly is beneficial to Butler in not signing the tender at this point? Couldn't he still be free to negotiate with other teams, provided that the Patriots allow it? He is going to have to sign it eventually...right?

 

[XLIX]

Ok so I will mark you down as believing belichick is a cheater and a liar.

And I will mark you down as a moron for thinking no such unofficial talks ever took place in any way, shape or form whatsoever and that you believe Butler's name didn't come up even in the slightest over the past couple weeks between NE and NO.

 

[XLIX]

What exactly is beneficial to Butler in not signing the tender at this point? Couldn't he still be free to negotiate with other teams, provided that the Patriots allow it?

By not signing the tender he is free to talk to any team he wants and even accept an offer sheet if some team decides he is worth the price. Otherwise, as you admit, he could only talk to teams the Patriots allowed him to talk to.

He is going to have to sign it eventually...right?

In all likelihood, yes he will have to sign it eventually. But he gains nothing by signing it right now.

 

[mosslost]

Completely WRONG.

Pats are entitled to 11 only if the saints sign butler to an offer sheet.

Sants haven't done that and most likely won't. Saints are trying to negotiate a trade and are not offering the 11th pick.

The pats aren't entitled to anything other than the what is offerred in the trade. PERIOD. That's it. Take the trade or keep butler, or negotiate further.

Number 11 is available ONLY IF NO signs him to an offer sheet. They AREN'T DOING THAT. It is thus IRRELEVANT.

 

[supafly]

Hopefully that suggests the Butler deal is collapsing.

I'm not sure how much we can read into a one year deal for Sterling Moore, but the fact that Moore was their "top CB" last year tells me all I need to know.

 

[ivanvamp]

No. BB himself has said this abd Lombardi also has.
You cannot discuss trading a player you do not have under contract. I mean it's also common sense, you have no rights to the player.

I want to see the rule. Because no, it doesn't make any sense.

Teams discuss trading players before they're drafted all the time, yet those teams have no rights to those players yet.

 

[Ring 6]

And I will mark you down as a moron for thinking no such unofficial talks ever took place in any way, shape or form whatsoever and that you believe Butler's name didn't come up even in the slightest over the past couple weeks between NE and NO.

They can't.
Rules are rules. If you honestly think bill belichick would risk the consequences of violating a rule at this stage of the fund moron doesn't even begin to describe you.