Broncos fumble: Forced to release Dumervil

[shmessy]

At the moment, sportrac is currently reporting BAL to be approx.11-12 under, and PIT to be approximately 13 million under.

.....and the Patriots ~$17 million under. I just checked their site.

 

[Big-T]

The websites I've looked at have the Steelers between 1-3m under the cap.

 

[supafly]

The websites I've looked at have the Steelers between 1-3m under the cap.

They are wrong.

They obviously are not accounting for the restructures that PIT did most recently.

There is a sportrac "up to the minute" tracker, which gives an approximation of current deals. They had the Lloyd move as of yesterday for us, so they are obviously the most current.

They have BAL at 11.5--12 under and PIT at 13 under. Like Shmessy said, we are approx. 17 under at the moment.

 

[Brady6]

I just heard on the radio, the Broncos didn't file the Dumervil restructured contract in time and were forced to cut him because they would have to pay him his bonus. Ooops.

IMO Dumervil is the best fit for the current scheme. He is undersized but would still be an upgrade over Ninkovich as the JACK LB/LDE position. He is versatile having played 3-4 OLB in Denver's previous scheme.

Plus he just turned 29 that is much younger than Abraham or Freeney.

This is a no brainer IMO we need to sign this guy and weaken Denver along the way.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

PFT is reporting the same thing, that the Steelers are interested in both Dumervil and Ahmad Bradshaw too.

As far as the cap implications go, I think both the Steelers and the Ravens have been somewhat overblown pertaining to their current 2013 problems.

If BAL can go after Dumervil, then PIT certainly could too. The Steelers have more available cap space than the Ravens currently do.

At the moment, sportrac is currently reporting BAL to be approx.11-12 under, and PIT to be approximately 13 million under.

They're gonna have to carry over a decent amount of that to next year to cover their asses on all the restructures they've been doing.

That organization is rapidly moving towards irresponsible cap management.

 

[supafly]

.....and the Patriots ~$17 million under. I just checked their site.

I think we're in a fine position, cap-wise. There should be plenty of room to add a couple/few WRs (not on the same talent level obviously), a pass rusher, and probably even another 1-2 lower level moves without having to worry about any clearing possibilities. We still have cuts to make, the Waters money to remove off of that 17 million figure you just saw, and the Fanane money to go after. On top of that they is potential for a restructuring of Mankins and/or an extension of Wilfork.

I do not personally think that Vollmer will return, nor have I ever really expected him to. The market is bad for most positions this season, but I still feel that Vollmer will be able to bring in 5.5--6 million dollars from a team wanting to move him to LT. At the moment it's being held up by Jake Long, who wishes to get about 9-10 million dollars. Cherilus received a little over 7 million per year, proving that the market for solid OT isn't nearly as affected as other positions this year.

My reason for not seeing Dumervil added to this team has nothing to do with a lack of cap room, but moreso a reasoning of poor value. I feel that we can do much better signing one of Freeny/Abraham instead, who may actually be more viable as players who could see more time vs the run. Dumervil is awful vs the run and the money he will be commanding (I assume it to be in the 6 million dollar range, possibly 6.5 aav) is not worth signing a part-time player in my personal opinion. Bill Belichick may feel quite differently, and I will still be happy with whomever they choose to sign for a pass rushing specialtist.

 

[supafly]

They're gonna have to carry over a decent amount of that to next year to cover their asses on all the restructures they've been doing.

That organization is rapidly moving towards irresponsible cap management.

As an organization always known for being conservative, I definitely agree with you. This recent article from the Tribune-Review looks at 2 opposing viewpoints from 2 different financial analysts/professors.

One claims that they have done what most other currently do, due to the nature of the salary cap, and can make those decisions based on a year to year basis without as much downfall as the average person may think.

The other of course, calls it a viscous cycle, which is the thinking that you and I have--along with the majority of fans here.

Only time will tell why they changed their philosophy to this, and how much they are expecting their draft picks to continue their success and/or how much they expect the cap to go up in the next few years.

Over past 3 years, no one has restructured more contracts than Steelers | TribLIVE

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

As an organization always known for being conservative, I definitely agree with you. This recent article from the Tribune-Review looks at 2 opposing viewpoints from 2 different financial analysts/professors.

One claims that they have done what most other currently do, due to the nature of the salary cap, and can make those decisions based on a year to year basis without as much downfall as the average person may think.

The other of course, calls it a viscous cycle, which is the thinking that you and I have--along with the majority of fans here.

Only time will tell why they changed their philosophy to this, and how much they are expecting their draft picks to continue their success and/or how much they expect the cap to go up in the next few years.

Over past 3 years, no one has restructured more contracts than Steelers | TribLIVE

Nice read, Supafly, thanks.

I firmly believe it's just a matter of time until this catches up to them in a big way.

It's one thing to restructure a couple of contracts a year, but to say most teams do what they have been doing, is way off base.

 

[supafly]

IMO Dumervil is the best fit for the current scheme. He is undersized but would still be an upgrade over Ninkovich as the JACK LB/LDE position. He is versatile having played 3-4 OLB in Denver's previous scheme.

Plus he just turned 29 that is much younger than Abraham or Freeney.

This is a no brainer IMO we need to sign this guy and weaken Denver along the way.

You aren't worried about his extreme lack of skills vs the run in terms of replacing Ninkovich with him for the "end of line" position(s)?

I am thinking that one of Abraham/Freeny could be a much better choice for a rotational role with Ninkovich + as a situational pass rusher. I think we've proven that you don't have to be an all-star to be able to get to the QB in that role (TBC, Mark Anderson).

I would be seeing Abraham/Freeny more in line of a Carter role (obviously not the same position as Carter), as I think they can play more stoutly vs the run and provide better value cap-wise.

How many bigger money signings have we had in the Belichick era for a player who couldn't tackle/ stop the run effectively? Possibly an even better question would be what percentage would you see Dumervil playing in terms of defensive participation on average?

 

[upstater1]

I bet they extend Solder in august.

 

[Big-T]

I bet they extend Solder in august.

They can't under the new CBA?

 

[supafly]

Nice read, Supafly, thanks.

I firmly believe it's just a matter of time until this catches up to them in a big way.

It's one thing to restructure a couple of contracts a year, but to say most teams do what they have been doing, is way off base.

I just thought the 2 financial guys views were interesting to see, considering that they are supposedly experts in those matters.

I agree with you that they could be in for some serious trouble ahead in the next couple/few years if their draft picks don't pan out and their higher priced players don't perform as well as they hope.

I will be ready to celebrate with you if/when that comes. I can't stand that team, their fanbase, or anything about them. I have to admit that the removal of J.Harrison and H.Ward (Wines Hard) have made them slightly more acceptable for me.

 

[Sciz]

IMO Dumervil is the best fit for the current scheme. He is undersized but would still be an upgrade over Ninkovich as the JACK LB/LDE position. He is versatile having played 3-4 OLB in Denver's previous scheme.

Plus he just turned 29 that is much younger than Abraham or Freeney.

This is a no brainer IMO we need to sign this guy and weaken Denver along the way.

I addressed some of this in the other thread, but you don't want Dumervil doing what Ninkovich did this past season. You want him doing what Carter did two years ago.

Dumervil's best position would be the Leo in the 4-3 Under, which is what the Pats ran a variation of in 2011 until Carter got hurt. This would let Dumervil be out wide and rush the passer without having to worry about defending the run a whole lot. That'd probably put Armstead (or one of the many gap-shooting draft prospects) at the 3-tech, Wilfork at the 1, and Jones a somewhat questionable fit at the other DE spot. Jones is big and can play the run just fine against a tackle, but he's not a guy I'd want taking on double teams and it'd definitely affect his pass rush opportunities. The 4-3 Under LE prototype is Red Bryant, who is 330 pounds. That's not Jones. I could see it working maybe if they move Jones out a little bit to give him a better angle on the RT, with the goal of having two run-defending studs in Wilfork and Spikes to pick up the slack up the middle. Other than that, I'm not really seeing how Dumervil fits.

 

[shmessy]

I would be seeing Abraham/Freeny more in line of a Carter role (obviously not the same position as Carter), as I think they can play more stoutly vs the run and provide better value cap-wise.

Great point about Andre Carter. The fantasy fanboys keep pointing to him as such a great pass rusher (and he was) however, very few note what a great job he did against the run and how fantastic he was at setting the edge. I haven't seen any Patriot set an edge that well since Vrabel or McGinest.

It was all the more tragic for him to be lost late in that season. He would have been a huge difference maker in that Super Bowl. So many point to Gronk not being 100%, but I feel Andre Carter was just as much missed.

I'm not sold on your Freeney argument there against the run on the edge, but I would have high hopes for Abraham.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

I just thought the 2 financial guys views were interesting to see, considering that they are supposedly experts in those matters.

I agree with you that they could be in for some serious trouble ahead in the next couple/few years if their draft picks don't pan out and their higher priced players don't perform as well as they hope.

I will be ready to celebrate with you if/when that comes. I can't stand that team, their fanbase, or anything about them. I have to admit that the removal of J.Harrison and H.Ward (Wines Hard) have made them slightly more acceptable for me.

Acceptable will never be a word i'll use when discussing that team.

Nothing, but hypocrites from the Rooney's on down.

So classy employing a rapist as the face of a franchise.

You go Pittsburgh! Stay classy.

 

[supafly]

I bet they extend Solder in august.

One thing I have to admit has made me happier lately is seeing their more aggressive approach in extending players early.

I guess our options would be Spikes, McCourty, and Solder. Anyone else come to mind?

I'm thinking McCourty is done sometime next year, possibly during the offseason or summertime of 2014 before the season starts. I think he may be looking at the high end of the safety market, something in range with what Goldson just got (5/42 IIRC). That would allow him to still make 8--8.5 million aav and not lock him into the safety status, but rather put him in-between the 2 positions which he should fine pretty fair and reasonable.

I think that Solder and Spikes would be the 2 to keep an eye on, although they may want to see another year of Spikes before assessing him 100%. He has still been somewhat of an inconsistent player at times, especially prior to this last season.

 

[Brady6]

You aren't worried about his extreme lack of skills vs the run in terms of replacing Ninkovich with him for the "end of line" position(s)?

I am thinking that one of Abraham/Freeny could be a much better choice for a rotational role with Ninkovich + as a situational pass rusher. I think we've proven that you don't have to be an all-star to be able to get to the QB in that role (TBC, Mark Anderson).

I would be seeing Abraham/Freeny more in line of a Carter role (obviously not the same position as Carter), as I think they can play more stoutly vs the run and provide better value cap-wise.

How many bigger money signings have we had in the Belichick era for a player who couldn't tackle/ stop the run effectively? Possibly an even better question would be what percentage would you see Dumervil playing in terms of defensive participation on average?

Abraham is a much better DE but his age scares me. I have a hard time with those 1 and done type players I like to see at least a 2-3 year solution to a position.

Freeney I would not consider to be much better against the run he had something like 12 tackles total last year and also is under sized as well.

The best solution for the problem would be to draft a DT in the 2nd (otherwise Deaderick or Love) to pair with Vince and use Armstead at LDE in a base 4-3 over front like we did in 2011 and then just use Dumervil in sub packages.

 

[Rob0729]

They can't under the new CBA?

Yeah, Gronk's and Hernandez's draft class was the last class where they could get a new deal after two years of service. Solder cannot get a new deal until next year.

 

[supafly]

The best solution for the problem would be to draft a DT in the 2nd (otherwise Deaderick or Love) to pair with Vince and use Armstead at LDE in a base 4-3 over front like we did in 2011 and then just use Dumervil in sub packages.

That's what I'm thinking too, and that would be my main concern as far as how expensive he would likely come, particularly for a part-time player.

Of course you could also take this specific 2013 free agent market into account and claim that a guy like Dumervil may be ripe for the picking, due to the NFL free agent economy. If that ends up being the case then I much rather would have seen a guy like Michael Bennett at 1/5, and/or even an additional CB/S signing too.

 

[supafly]

Yeah, Gronk's and Hernandez's draft class was the last class where they could get a new deal after two years of service. Solder cannot get a new deal until next year.

Good catch Rob and Big-T.

So besides Spikes, are there any other potential players that you could see for an early extension between now and the start of the season?

Maybe Ninkovich, depending upon certain variables (that may get complicated)? Although I suppose he'd be included with all of the other DL players who are up at the end of the season.

I don't think there's any doubt that we should draft a DL player again in the top few rds of the draft this year. All of Love, Deaderick, Pryor, Ninkovich, and Cunningham are FA's next year--I believe. And even Wilfork is up the year after that.