Cool Link Brian Hoyer on Josh McDaniels on 98.5 (link now added)

[Stu Pidassle]

I noticed that as well but I dont think the google searches on their stats are accurate as far as maybe Edelmans last year because he looked pretty jacked and a lot bigger than Douglas.

Agreed Edelman looked much bigger than he did to start his career. If the stats are right on Pop he is 5'8 and close to 200. 200 pounds is good sized for a receiver so he isn't small by that measure. He seems more stout than Amendola. Short will help him get lost in the bigger players. Short players seem to get really walloped by taller players with leverage and taller players are more vulnerable for body shots. I guess the conclusion is that Pop has adequate size to play slot corner with average risk of injury.

 

[patfanken]

The insight about the type of offensive mcdaniels creates is illuminating and interesting, as well as greatly appreciated.

However, I am going to have to stop you at number 6. Let's not make excuses here. McDaniels had the same epic failure in Denver. The accountability and culpability fall all on McDaniels. He drove two franchises into the ground with historically egregiously atrocious leadership. Not 1 person in Oakland and Denver had anything positive to say about him. Mcdaniel's is the NFL's poster boy for 'How not to be a head coach'.

And while what you say is an overstatement, even if it were right on the money, the fact is Josh was NOT hired to be the HC, so any failures on his part, both real and imagined have NOTHING to do with him being the Pats OC, and are pretty much irrelevant unless you are simply a hater, Ray

 

[Sect140]

if you have to “delicate yourself to learning” then its “super hard”

I’m guessing if any receiver on any team doesn’t dedicate themselves to the playbook then the receiver is most likely going to be a bust unless you are a 5 star stud. That tells me they are lazy and I don’t want anything to do with them.

 

[Sect140]

Vrabel just brought in Ashton Grant from the Browns to be QB coach, so no room at the inn for Hoyer. I wonder if that opens up a slot for AVP with the Browns.

Has Josh ever had a QB coach? I only ask because what I remember about Josh is when the defense is on the field he is always sitting right beside the QB going over the pictures.

 

[signbabybrady]

All the more amazing Hernandez found the time to learn this offense...with all his extracurriculars

I heard (I think on games with names) that he had the whole playbook down pat in like 2 weeks.

 

[signbabybrady]

And while what you say is an overstatement, even if it were right on the money, the fact is Josh was NOT hired to be the HC, so any failures on his part, both real and imagined have NOTHING to do with him being the Pats OC, and are pretty much irrelevant unless you are simply a hater, Ray

He is

 

[Urgent]

Another note on Josh McD
There's some concern that Josh's system is antiquated.
That his system only worked for Brady.

Note that when he had Cam Newton, Newton rushed 137 times. That was a fundamental shift in Josh's offense - he absolutely adapted to the QB's capabilities. 137 rushes was two short of Newton's career high.
Josh does seem to have the interest in adapting his system to the abilities of his roster.

 

[Ross12]

I’ve been told that nobody on the 2023 Raiders has anything good to say about McDaniels so there’s no way Hooper will resign here….

I know you're joking, but yeah, that's definitely overblown. Seems like most people point to comments by Davante Adams which themselves seem more like him just trying to be optimistic about the new coaches and how they will be an improvement, which necessitates putting the old coaches in a negative light to some degree. Adams is a bit of a diva; if he really hated the system he would have been much sharper in his verbiage. I can't think of anyone else significant who specifically crapped on the scheme.

 

[patfanken]

Remember we got basically nothing from the Bourne and Polk's of the NFL world. Other than Boutte our boundary Receivers were horrible.

For a receiver, coaching and QB's matter...allot. Don't forget that KB had an 800yd season with Josh and a rookie QB while only playing about a third of the possible snaps. After that kind of efficient production, I was super high on Bourne's future. Unfortunately, he besides all the injuries, he's looked lost even when he's out there. No wonder he was so excited to see Josh back.'

BTW- I do worry about the extremely high expectations of Maye most people will have of him next season. And while he looked every bit the future star, he STILL has a long way to go in his evolution toward being a top 5 QB in the league. I would keep in mind Hoyer's comment about Josh never giving a QB more than he can handle and what he can handle grows each year. The QB we will see in 2025 will be better, but not nearly a good as he will be 5 years from now and beyond. It takes a LONG time to master the QB position, and you can only hope that in Maye we get the same passion to improve each year, that we saw in Brady And hope that we never see him at the point where is satisfied he knows it all (at least for the first decade here.)

 

[mgcolby]

The insight about the type of offensive mcdaniels creates is illuminating and interesting, as well as greatly appreciated.

However, I am going to have to stop you at number 6. Let's not make excuses here. McDaniels had the same epic failure in Denver. The accountability and culpability falls all on McDaniels. He drove two franchises into the ground with historically egregiously atrocious leadership. Not 1 person in Oakland and Denver had anything positive to say about him. Mcdaniel's is the NFL's poster boy for 'How not to be a head coach'.

You are a treat. So basically, you are saying you have more insight into McDaniel's coaching style and the corresponding response to it in the Raiders locker room than Hoyer does.

Also, I did tell you that Vrabel will hire some guys to coach on the offense. Batting 1000!

 

[Ross12]

The insight about the type of offensive mcdaniels creates is illuminating and interesting, as well as greatly appreciated.

However, I am going to have to stop you at number 6. Let's not make excuses here. McDaniels had the same epic failure in Denver. The accountability and culpability falls all on McDaniels. He drove two franchises into the ground with historically egregiously atrocious leadership. Not 1 person in Oakland and Denver had anything positive to say about him. Mcdaniel's is the NFL's poster boy for 'How not to be a head coach'.

Good thing they didn't hire him as a head coach then.

 

[Ross12]

For a receiver, coaching and QB's matter...allot. Don't forget that KB had an 800yd season with Josh and a rookie QB while only playing about a third of the possible snaps. After that kind of efficient production, I was super high on Bourne's future. Unfortunately, he besides all the injuries, he's looked lost even when he's out there. No wonder he was so excited to see Josh back.'

BTW- I do worry about the extremely high expectations of Maye most people will have of him next season. And while he looked every bit the future star, he STILL has a long way to go in his evolution toward being a top 5 QB in the league. I would keep in mind Hoyer's comment about Josh never giving a QB more than he can handle and what he can handle grows each year. The QB we will see in 2025 will be better, but not nearly a good as he will be 5 years from now and beyond. It takes a LONG time to master the QB position, and you can only hope that in Maye we get the same passion to improve each year, that we saw in Brady And hope that we never see him at the point where is satisfied he knows it all (at least for the first decade here.)

Yes, I do think folks should temper expectations on Maye - it won't be an overnight change. There will be growing pains and he may not look a lot better in 2025 than he did in 2024. However, the rest of the team SHOULD improve around him, which should translate to several more wins. I'd be more optimistic about a bigger jump from him in 2026.

 

[jdlboot14]

Because of this, I actually think it'd be smart for the Pats to keep Brissett.
He isn't a great QB, but he's a dedicated pro - and has experience with JMD, and the offense.

As for WR's - get a lot, and let the best ones survive. We'll see if Polk can rebound, or Boutte can break out.
As for Pop - not sure if he has the instinct and smarts to excel in a JMD offense, but he'll sure have the best shot this year to try and prove it.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

Boutte reminds me a bit of Lafell who had a nice little run.

If he can pick up sight adjustments he might be a decent possession guy. Bourne can play in the system.

Pop will likely be better as Josh has generally used slots well.

Polk and Baker…I have serious concerns that either is bright enough, or wants to be coached which is rough learning an already tricky offense for receivers.

Hope I’m wrong. If ONE of them works out it would be awesome.

 

[mgcolby]

I mean its like he drove all his best players out of town. Nope that was after the "Player" coach took over. Jacobs left, Hooper left and Adams forced his way out and they went 4-13 racking up one more win in 17 games than they did in 8 with Josh in 2023. and two less wins than they did under Josh in 2022. The despised McDaniels went 9-16 and the beloved Pierce went...wait for it....9-16.

I'm not defending Josh just stating facts. Doesn't change the perception of him but puts proper perspective on the final results of the situation. Call me silly but I believe Hoyer when he says the Raiders had no desire to work as hard as was needed to win.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Because of this, I actually think it'd be smart for the Pats to keep Brissett.
He isn't a great QB, but he's a dedicated pro - and has experience with JMD, and the offense.

As for WR's - get a lot, and let the best ones survive. We'll see if Polk can rebound, or Boutte can break out.
As for Pop - not sure if he has the instinct and smarts to excel in a JMD offense, but he'll sure have the best shot this year to try and prove it.

Even after this whole season, I like Brissett for what he is... a backup who can come in and win a game or two for you in a pinch. Asking him to be the starter was a mistake.

 

[mgcolby]

As for Pop - not sure if he has the instinct and smarts to excel in a JMD offense, but he'll sure have the best shot this year to try and prove it.

I think he becomes to this offense what Welker and Edelman were. Obviously not saying he will be them but he will be the 80+ catch guy out of the slot. He has all the tools for it.

 

[The Gr8est]

Yes, I do think folks should temper expectations on Maye - it won't be an overnight change. There will be growing pains and he may not look a lot better in 2025 than he did in 2024. However, the rest of the team SHOULD improve around him, which should translate to several more wins. I'd be more optimistic about a bigger jump from him in 2026.

Tempering our expectations will be fine as long as we have reason for hope.

Now that we have proven professionals running the team I think we can be patient. We are Pats fans, we have seen lots of bad teams.

So many fans were talking about bailing at the end of the last season because the coaching staff was an abomination and the ownership seemed clueless and self-absorbed.

I think the burgeoning fan revolt got their attention, and to their credit they righted the ship and made the needed changes.

Now the Pats look like one of the more promising young teams in the league, and there should be enough optimism to help us weather the storms.

 

[The Gr8est]

I think he becomes to this offense what Welker and Edelman were. Obviously not saying he will be them but he will be the 80+ catch guy out of the slot. He has all the tools for it.

We’ll see.

It remains to be seen if he can consistently be where Maye expects him to be.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

I know you're joking, but yeah, that's definitely overblown. Seems like most people point to comments by Davante Adams which themselves seem more like him just trying to be optimistic about the new coaches and how they will be an improvement, which necessitates putting the old coaches in a negative light to some degree. Adams is a bit of a diva; if he really hated the system he would have been much sharper in his verbiage. I can't think of anyone else significant who specifically crapped on the scheme.

Right, I can’t speak for McDaniels’ time in Denver and Vegas other than what I read from afar. And the SB 42 story is very petty if true, and makes me not want to have him in charge. But as you said, good thing he’s not in charge here then. I find it hard to imagine all of the players on offense in Vegas hated him. In fact, interesting thing about his Denver time is that all 4 of his “big name” guys on offense eventually came to play for the Patriots - Lloyd, Thomas, Decker, and Tebow. And I specially remember Lloyd saying that he *only* wanted to play for McDaniels because he was the only guy who understood how to use him right.

Obviously he rubbed many people the wrong way as HC, but I suspect more of their players on offense liked his approach than were willing to let on. I’m very interested to see how many Vegas guys wind up on the Pats over the next 3 years. Maybe I’m wrong and it’s 0, but I’d bet against that.