Breer believes Patriots would consider trading Mac to Raiders

[VJCPatriot]

That’s completely dependent upon who is left. Stroud would be the only 1st round QB I would take, Young is just too small, and Levi’s is too much of a project.

Now that you mentioned Stroud I took a look at his scouting profile. He seems like a definite upgrade over Mac Jones. If we could get Stroud at #7, that's certainly a tempting reason for a move up with the Raiders. He's got good size and athleticism at 6'3 and put together back to back productive seasons at Ohio state while taking care of the football very well: 44 TDs 6 ints and 41 TDs 6 ints respectively. I feel like the only drawback in that scenario is that the Raiders might want to take Stroud at that point instead of pick swapping for Mac Jones, don't you think?

Stroud draft profile:

CJ Stroud NFL Draft Scouting Report

CJ Stroud NFL Draft scouting report. Find out the NFL Draft ranking, background, college, height, weight, and more of CJ Stroud.

thedraftnetwork.com

 

[203Pat]

I can't imagine Bill would jettison another QB with no backup plan unless he really believes in Zappe.

 

[Rob0729]

Mac was likely playing for a 10 win team this year if not for Meyers being a moron. With Patricia. He probably gets the Lions and Browns wins but who knows.

I think everyone's been a bit inconsistent though. Mac is good for getting 10 wins with McDaniels but what was effectively a 10 win team with Mac and Patricia demonstrates Patricia's incompetence.

You are really going to die on this silly pro Patricia hill.

Against the Bucs in 2021, Folk missed a last minute field goal in a game the Pats lost 19-17.

Against Miami week one in 2021, the Pats were in a first and ten on the Miami 11 with 3 minutes left down 17-16 and Harris fumbled the ball away.

Against Dallas in 2021, Jones and the offense got the Pats a three point lead with a little more than two minutes left in the game and on the Cowboys’ next drive the Cowboys were in a 3rd and 25 on their own 45 with 31 seconds left and the Pats let Prescott complete a 24 yard pass setting up a field goal to go into over time.

Against Indy I’m 2021, Jones got the Pats within 3 with two minutes left and the defense let Jonathan Taylor rush for a 69 yard TD two plays later sinking any chance of a comeback.

If we want to play this game, I just list four games that without a single mistake by someone else other than Jones in games, the Pats would have had 13 or 14 wins in 2021. But that isn’t how football works.

 

[Rob0729]

I listened to the entire Breer segment this morning Breer himself said this is unlikely to happen because the Raiders won’t offer enough (first round value) for the Pats to be willing to part with Jones.

And I hear Gasper this morning. He admits he wants the Pats to sign Garoppolo and trade Jones so his whole scenario is him trying to force fit the fact to fit his dream scenario.

 

[Crazy World of Troy Brown]

90% of the Boston Writers (ha), have said Mac Jones is the best thing since Penicillin.
You got to go by what they say.
I'm figuring SB appearance, at the least.
You have to listen to these writers. Right?

 

[sb1]

I listened to the entire Breer segment this morning Breer himself said this is unlikely to happen because the Raiders won’t offer enough (first round value) for the Pats to be willing to part with Jones.

And I hear Gasper this morning. He admits he wants the Pats to sign Garoppolo and trade Jones so his whole scenario is him trying to force fit the fact to fit his dream scenario.

Gasper never wanted Mac here. He was a Trey Lance guy.

 

[Ivan]

Now that you mentioned Stroud I took a look at his scouting profile. He seems like a definite upgrade over Mac Jones. If we could get Stroud at #7, that's certainly a tempting reason for a move up with the Raiders. He's got good size and athleticism at 6'3 and put together back to back productive seasons at Ohio state while taking care of the football very well: 44 TDs 6 ints and 41 TDs 6 ints respectively. I feel like the only drawback in that scenario is that the Raiders might want to take Stroud at that point instead of pick swapping for Mac Jones, don't you think?

Stroud draft profile:

CJ Stroud NFL Draft Scouting Report

CJ Stroud NFL Draft scouting report. Find out the NFL Draft ranking, background, college, height, weight, and more of CJ Stroud.

thedraftnetwork.com

Yep. Stroud won’t be there, I won’t be surprised if he ends up going first. It’s hard to know what MacDaniels thinks about Jones, but I don’t think he’s got a long leash, so he really needs to win now, and it’s unlikely Levis can give him that. Ultimately I don’t think anyone will give up what it’s worth to trade Jones, but I won’t be surprised if Belichick draft another QB prospect in this draft.

 

[Jlaff]

You are really going to die on this silly pro Patricia hill.

Against the Bucs in 2021, Folk missed a last minute field goal in a game the Pats lost 19-17.

Against Miami week one in 2021, the Pats were in a first and ten on the Miami 11 with 3 minutes left down 17-16 and Harris fumbled the ball away.

Against Dallas in 2021, Jones and the offense got the Pats a three point lead with a little more than two minutes left in the game and on the Cowboys’ next drive the Cowboys were in a 3rd and 25 on their own 45 with 31 seconds left and the Pats let Prescott complete a 24 yard pass setting up a field goal to go into over time.

Against Indy I’m 2021, Jones got the Pats within 3 with two minutes left and the defense let Jonathan Taylor rush for a 69 yard TD two plays later sinking any chance of a comeback.

If we want to play this game, I just list four games that without a single mistake by someone else other than Jones in games, the Pats would have had 13 or 14 wins in 2021. But that isn’t how football works.

Throwing a TD pass to the other team on the last play before OT following "a series of exciting laterals" (thanks again to whoever coined that) isn't how football is played either.

And it's not like there weren't other close winnable games this year.

I bashed on Patricia plenty last season. I know he's not good. I also never liked him as a DC. I just think it's important to point out the double standard, which, at its core, is designed to absolve Mac completely by attributing all blame for his shortcomings on Patricia and coaching.

I also do think Patricia started to bring it together at the end. An impossible situation at the beginning of the season. No one should have reasonably expected more from him than they got. And if a trash offence going in is what should have been expected, then learning and improving throughout the year MUST have been the expectation. And he did that.

 

[catent]

I will admit to being entirely perplexed every time I see someone claim that Zappe has a weaker arm than Mac. Based on what evidence? With all due respect, when I see someone claim that, I can only think to myself, “what the **** are you watching?”

Mac can very likely throw the ball further, with air under it, with no pass rush, under perfect conditions. However, I don’t see any evidence that Mac has superior arm velocity/mechanics on short to intermediate throws. And it’s nothing to do with his physical traits, but rather poor mechanics and weight transfer. If I had a nickel for every time Mac threw a 10-15 yard sideline pass that felt like it hung in the air for dangerously too long … I’d be marginally richer. Zappe’s sideline throws - and his stuff over the middle - has (to my eye) considerably more zip on it, and this seems related to his mechanics. Zappe snaps the ball. Mac floats it.

There were a handful of games where Mac demonstrated improvement with his arm zip and mechanics. The game against Minnesota (primarily the initial 2-3 quarters) is the best example. Unfortunately he couldn’t consistently sustain and build on that … old habits die hard. We’ll see how he does in his third season.

I’m not saying Zappe is perfect or necessarily the long-term answer moving forward. I tend to agree that Mac has real potential if he ever manages to put it all together and consistently correct/improve his weaknesses. But ceilings/potential matter a lot less than realized production/performance … just ask Drew Henson and Tom Brady.

 

[p8ryts]

Now that you mentioned Stroud I took a look at his scouting profile. He seems like a definite upgrade over Mac Jones. If we could get Stroud at #7, that's certainly a tempting reason for a move up with the Raiders. He's got good size and athleticism at 6'3 and put together back to back productive seasons at Ohio state while taking care of the football very well: 44 TDs 6 ints and 41 TDs 6 ints respectively. I feel like the only drawback in that scenario is that the Raiders might want to take Stroud at that point instead of pick swapping for Mac Jones, don't you think?

Stroud draft profile:

CJ Stroud NFL Draft Scouting Report

CJ Stroud NFL Draft scouting report. Find out the NFL Draft ranking, background, college, height, weight, and more of CJ Stroud.

thedraftnetwork.com

Impressive in the Michigan game. I had thought he was another Fields but he threw the ball very well. I think he might be preferable to Young.

 

[RIpats88]

I listened to the entire Breer segment this morning Breer himself said this is unlikely to happen because the Raiders won’t offer enough (first round value) for the Pats to be willing to part with Jones.

And I hear Gasper this morning. He admits he wants the Pats to sign Garoppolo and trade Jones so his whole scenario is him trying to force fit the fact to fit his dream scenario.

What's this obsession with Jimmy G that gasper has? Pay him 20million to get injured and we have to play the backup anyway?

Or have Mac Jones for $4.5million and see what he has with a real OC in O'Brien who actually ran the Alabama offense that Mac came from. Maybe he looks the same as he did last year.

But after all we know about judge/Patricia jettisoning your QB because they couldn't excel in that dysfunction would be one of the dumbest moves a team can make. Maybe and I might be crazy here but running an actual NFL offense might fix a lot of our problems.

 

[RIpats88]

I will admit to being entirely perplexed every time I see someone claim that Zappe has a weaker arm than Mac. Based on what evidence? With all due respect, when I see someone claim that, I can only think to myself, “what the **** are you watching?”

Mac can very likely throw the ball further, with air under it, with no pass rush, under perfect conditions. However, I don’t see any evidence that Mac has superior arm velocity/mechanics on short to intermediate throws. And it’s nothing to do with his physical traits, but rather poor mechanics and weight transfer. If I had a nickel for every time Mac threw a 10-15 yard sideline pass that felt like it hung in the air for dangerously too long … I’d be marginally richer. Zappe’s sideline throws - and his stuff over the middle - has (to my eye) considerably more zip on it, and this seems related to his mechanics. Zappe snaps the ball. Mac floats it.

There were a handful of games where Mac demonstrated improvement with his arm zip and mechanics. The game against Minnesota (primarily the initial 2-3 quarters) is the best example. Unfortunately he couldn’t consistently sustain and build-on that … old habits die hard. We’ll see how he does in his third season.

I’m not saying Zappe is perfect or necessarily the long-term answer moving forward. I tend to agree that Mac has real potential if he ever manages to put it all together and consistently correct/improve his weaknesses. But ceilings/potential matter a lot less than realized production/performance … just ask Drew Henson and Tom Brady.

Arm strength is kind of overrated. People make too much of Macs arm strength. He has good touch on the ball and gets it where it needs to go. He never will have josh Allens arm. But it's not like he's Chad pennington out there.

 

[Rob0729]

Throwing a TD pass to the other team on the last play before OT following "a series of exciting laterals" (thanks again to whoever coined that) isn't how football is played either.

And it's not like there weren't other close winnable games this year.

I bashed on Patricia plenty last season. I know he's not good. I also never liked him as a DC. I just think it's important to point out the double standard, which, at its core, is designed to absolve Mac completely by attributing all blame for his shortcomings on Patricia and coaching.

I also do think Patricia started to bring it together at the end. An impossible situation at the beginning of the season. No one should have reasonably expected more from him than they got. And if a trash offence going in is what should have been expected, then learning and improving throughout the year MUST have been the expectation. And he did that.

You mean Belichick was pulling together since reports are he took over the offense. And guess what? The special teams fell apart and the defense couldn’t stop good offenses. Why? Because Belichick spent way too much time with the offense.

And pulling it together is an overstatement. Against the Bills in the last game, the first half they went against everything they tried to do during the season in the first half of the game and in the second half they went back to what they were running during the season and the offense fell apart.

We don’t need our head coach be a co-OC. And the fact that the expectations should have been a trash offense with Patricia as OC exactly the reason why he should have never been the OC in the first place and both he and Belichick would have been fired if Belichick wasn’t Belichick. Almost any other coach in the league would have been fired after what happened last year.

 

[Rob0729]

What's this obsession with Jimmy G that gasper has? Pay him 20million to get injured and we have to play the backup anyway?

Or have Mac Jones for $4.5million and see what he has with a real OC in O'Brien who actually ran the Alabama offense that Mac came from. Maybe he looks the same as he did last year.

But after all we know about judge/Patricia jettisoning your QB because they couldn't excel in that dysfunction would be one of the dumbest moves a team can make. Maybe and I might be crazy here but running an actual NFL offense might fix a lot of our problems.

He said that Jimmy Garoppolo would energize the team and the fan base. I don’t get that. I think some of the fans will be excited others will feel it is a literal move or a downgrade especially since you cannot count on him to play a complete season.

 

[Wozzy]

I will admit to being entirely perplexed every time I see someone claim that Zappe has a weaker arm than Mac. Based on what evidence? With all due respect, when I see someone claim that, I can only think to myself, “what the **** are you watching?”

Mac can very likely throw the ball further, with air under it, with no pass rush, under perfect conditions. However, I don’t see any evidence that Mac has superior arm velocity/mechanics on short to intermediate throws. And it’s nothing to do with his physical traits, but rather poor mechanics and weight transfer. If I had a nickel for every time Mac threw a 10-15 yard sideline pass that felt like it hung in the air for dangerously too long … I’d be marginally richer. Zappe’s sideline throws - and his stuff over the middle - has (to my eye) considerably more zip on it, and this seems related to his mechanics. Zappe snaps the ball. Mac floats it.

There were a handful of games where Mac demonstrated improvement with his arm zip and mechanics. The game against Minnesota (primarily the initial 2-3 quarters) is the best example. Unfortunately he couldn’t consistently sustain and build-on that … old habits die hard. We’ll see how he does in his third season.

I’m not saying Zappe is perfect or necessarily the long-term answer moving forward. I tend to agree that Mac has real potential if he ever manages to put it all together and consistently correct/improve his weaknesses. But ceilings/potential matter a lot less than realized production/performance … just ask Drew Henson and Tom Brady.

Some fans equate taller to stronger arm... never mind that Mac is the same height as Aaron Rogers or Patrick Mahomes... he's a Patriot and not Tom... so automatically he is weak. Ignoring of course scouting reports that said Tom had a weak arm exiting college.

Zappe threw a 55 yard pass at the combine without a lot of wind up... here it is (0:26 second mark) in case someone doesn't believe it.



He has plenty of arm... arm strength is so overrated in relation to decision making and processing speed it's not even funny.

 

[Wozzy]

The Pats have no clue what they have in Mac Jones, Zappe is their break glass in case of emergency option.

Why would they limit their options by one... they wouldn't. Not unless they were certain Zappe was the answer.

 

[sb1]

I will admit to being entirely perplexed every time I see someone claim that Zappe has a weaker arm than Mac. Based on what evidence? With all due respect, when I see someone claim that, I can only think to myself, “what the **** are you watching?”

Mac can very likely throw the ball further, with air under it, with no pass rush, under perfect conditions. However, I don’t see any evidence that Mac has superior arm velocity/mechanics on short to intermediate throws. And it’s nothing to do with his physical traits, but rather poor mechanics and weight transfer. If I had a nickel for every time Mac threw a 10-15 yard sideline pass that felt like it hung in the air for dangerously too long … I’d be marginally richer. Zappe’s sideline throws - and his stuff over the middle - has (to my eye) considerably more zip on it, and this seems related to his mechanics. Zappe snaps the ball. Mac floats it.

There were a handful of games where Mac demonstrated improvement with his arm zip and mechanics. The game against Minnesota (primarily the initial 2-3 quarters) is the best example. Unfortunately he couldn’t consistently sustain and build-on that … old habits die hard. We’ll see how he does in his third season.

I’m not saying Zappe is perfect or necessarily the long-term answer moving forward. I tend to agree that Mac has real potential if he ever manages to put it all together and consistently correct/improve his weaknesses. But ceilings/potential matter a lot less than realized production/performance … just ask Drew Henson and Tom Brady.

Zappe has a very weak arm. It was the biggest knock on him coming out of college. He does some things well but he absolutely has a problem with his arm strength. See for yourself especially his last two throws.

 

[Ross12]

I think one way to look at things is that you already sort of lived the downside of the “Garoppolo experience” last year - your starting QB got hurt and missed several games. What happened? You had to rely on your rookie backup. How’d he do? He played Green Bay pretty well despite not expecting to see action in a game that went to OT, handled a middling Cleveland and a Detroit team that was probably better than we thought at the time but was still finding its footing. They rode their defense for wins (and a close loss) and didn’t ask their backup to do too much.

That’s what you’d do if you had Garoppolo as your QB and he happened to get hurt again, but your backup isn’t a rookie anymore and will be receiving better coaching. You could ask a bit more of him. And in the games that Garoppolo does play, does he get more wins than Mac would? That’s the question. Additionally, you could use the draft capital gained from the trade of Mac to acquire pieces to better protect Garoppolo. It’s all an equation to consider.

Obviously the crappy outcome is “what if they trade Mac and he ends up being good elsewhere?” Well yeah, that would suck. But I wouldn’t chastise Bill for going with a QB he likes and trusts he can win now with. That’s really what it would be about. It’s possible for that to happen and the Pats to also be successful with Garoppolo, which would be just fine.

 

[Jlaff]

You mean Belichick was pulling together since reports are he took over the offense. And guess what? The special teams fell apart and the defense couldn’t stop good offenses. Why? Because Belichick spent way too much time with the offense.

And pulling it together is an overstatement. Against the Bills in the last game, the first half they went against everything they tried to do during the season in the first half of the game and in the second half they went back to what they were running during the season and the offense fell apart.

We don’t need our head coach be a co-OC. And the fact that the expectations should have been a trash offense with Patricia as OC exactly the reason why he should have never been the OC in the first place and both he and Belichick would have been fired if Belichick wasn’t Belichick. Almost any other coach in the league would have been fired after what happened last year.

I haven't read the reports about Belichick taking more time with the offense. Logic and confirmation bias suggests that's likely, but what did we think Belichick was doing as a head coach, spending all his time in special teams?

 

[Rob0729]

I haven't read the reports about Belichick taking more time with the offense. Logic and confirmation bias suggests that's likely, but what did we think Belichick was doing as a head coach, spending all his time in special teams?

The Herald story about the offense disfunction said that Belichick was overseeing and calling play calls which is why plays were so late to get into Jones. And it said Belichick spent extra time during the week and most of his time on game days on the offense.

And if Belichick is consuming his time with the offense, he cannot spend enough time with defense and special teams.