Brandon Tate -Thoughts?

[BradyFTW!]

Ask yourself how many rookie wide receivers in the history of the NFL gained 1,000 yards receiving?

As for free agent wide receivers:

Santonio Holmes
Sidney Rice
Vincent Jackson
James Jones

2011 NFL Free Agents: WR

I don't expect anyone that we draft to get 1,000 yards immediately. They don't have to. They can outproduce Brandon Tate with half that.

Or, if they decide to go get VJax, then hell yeah, that would be great. I don't particularly care how they address WR, as long as they do in a significant way.

 

[BradyToAmendola]

No, it's not. Unless the team lets Light walk without any replacement, offensive tackle is not a high priority at all.

What about Nick Kaczur? He could play right tackle and slide Vollmer over to left tackle. I know he was injured last year and hopefully he's recovered from that, but Kaczur not that bad. Vollmer looked good last year when he was playing left tackle too, I think he could handle it.

 

[ATippett56]

I don't expect anyone that we draft to get 1,000 yards immediately. They don't have to. They can outproduce Brandon Tate with half that.

Or, if they decide to go get VJax, then hell yeah, that would be great. I don't particularly care how they address WR, as long as they do in a significant way.

No more dumpster diving, let's head straight for the top shelf!

 

[patsfan-1982]

my Thoughts are the same on Tate, he's a good KR who will have 2 or 3 deep balls a year and not much more

 

[Deus Irae]

Now you are talking my language!

2011 NFL Free Agents: WR

I've mentioned Jackson and Rice as theoretical possibilities before. Both are likely looking at either re-signing or getting franchised, though, unless their current teams consider them too damaged to hold onto.

 

[BradyFTW!]

What about Nick Kaczur? He could play right tackle and slide Vollmer over to left tackle. I know he was injured last year and hopefully he's recovered from that, but Kaczur not that bad. Vollmer looked good last year when he was playing left tackle too, I think he could handle it.

Kaczur's coming off a serious back injury and he's entering his mid-30s... if we're okay with having a guy like that starting, why not just re-sign Matt Light instead?

Or, if all else fails, we can go and get that Todd Light guy that I've heard so much about.

 

[Deus Irae]

What about Nick Kaczur? He could play right tackle and slide Vollmer over to left tackle. I know he was injured last year and hopefully he's recovered from that, but Kaczur not that bad. Vollmer looked good last year when he was playing left tackle too, I think he could handle it.

If you let Light go and promote Kazcur, you set off a chain reaction:

Likely worse at LT
Certainly worse at RT
Either a completely revamped right side or a Connolly/Kaczur combo over there
Loss of quality depth
Need to either pay free agent money for a top shelf backup/starter guy instead of trolling the bargain bins for the Connolly's of the world, or to draft a tackle high enough to be confident that he can fill that role from day one.

 

[ATippett56]

I've mentioned Jackson and Rice as theoretical possibilities before. Both are likely looking at either re-signing or getting franchised, though, unless their current teams consider them too damaged to hold onto.

Malcolm Floyd - height 6'-5" weight 225 lbs could be a matchup nightmare for most cornerbacks.

 

[chicowalker]

my Thoughts are the same on Tate, he's a good KR who will have 2 or 3 deep balls a year and not much more

Is he, though?

I decided to check the stats, since it's a break from work. As it appeared from watching the games, his performance returning kicks suffered after a strong start. In the first half of the year, he averaged nearly 29 yds / return, which would put him almost at the top of all kick returners in the NFL. In the 2nd half, he averaged barely more than 20 yards / return, which would put him among the worst.

 

[Deus Irae]

Malcolm Floyd - height 6'-5" weight 225 lbs could be a matchup nightmare for most cornerbacks.

Granted the guy missed 6 games this season, but he also played during Jackson's suspension, and he only managed 37 receptions. He's 29 years old (30 in September) and has career highs of 45 catches and 776 yards. He's a definite upgrade over the 2010 Tate model, but he may end up overpricing himself on the talent/production ratio.

I mean, would you even think of giving this guy more than 2 years at high money? If not, I don't think he's a likely candidate.

 

[ATippett56]

Kaczur's coming off a serious back injury and he's entering his mid-30s... if we're okay with having a guy like that starting, why not just re-sign Matt Light instead?

Nick Kaczur turns 32 years of age prior to the start of the 2011 NFL Season, Matt Light turns 33 years of age prior to the start of the 2011 NFL Season. Neither offensive lineman are considered "spring chickens", per se.

Nick Kaczur underwent back surgery in August 2010 and that is a source of concern.

 

[ATippett56]

Granted the guy missed 6 games this season, but he also played during Jackson's suspension, and he only managed 37 receptions. He's 29 years old (30 in September) and has career highs of 45 catches and 776 yards. He's a definite upgrade over the 2010 Tate model, but he may end up overpricing himself on the talent/production ratio.

I mean, would you even think of giving this guy more than 2 years at high money? If not, I don't think he's a likely candidate.

Do you want to win the Super Bowl next year or quibble over every free agent wide receiver?

 

[Deus Irae]

Do you want to win the Super Bowl next year or quibble over every free agent wide receiver?

I'm not quibbling. I'm pointing out issues and asking you a question. Are you willing to drop 4-5 years at big money on Floyd? That might be what it takes to get him away from San Diego.

Just look at yourself regarding him. As I noted, he'll be 30 in September, and his career highs are 45 catches and 776 yards, yet you went with "Malcolm Floyd - height 6'-5" weight 225 lbs could be a matchup nightmare for most cornerbacks." It's going to come down to what the market dictates, naturally, but it only takes one out of 32 to make an insane offer.

 

[ATippett56]

I'm not quibbling. I'm pointing out issues and asking you a question. Are you willing to drop 4-5 years at big money on Floyd? That might be what it takes to get him away from San Diego.

The San Diego Chargers will have to chose between Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. I seriously doubt that the San Diego Chargers can afford both.

Just look at yourself regarding him. As I noted, he'll be 30 in September, and his career highs are 45 catches and 776 yards, yet you went with "Malcolm Floyd - height 6'-5" weight 225 lbs could be a matchup nightmare for most cornerbacks." It's going to come down to what the market dictates, naturally, but it only takes one out of 32 to make an insane offer.

Terrell Owens at the age of 37 nearly turned in a 1,000 yard season in only fourteen games. If Tom Brady can make Reche Caldwell look good as was the case in 2006, Malcolm Floyd should be a piece of cake.

 

[mgteich]

I want to re-sign Light, and would even consider franchising him. That being said, if Light goes, I would expect Kaczur to play LT as he did in his rookie year, perhaps being pushed by a rookie. IF NICK IS HEALTHY, he would be a step down from Light, but we would somewhat make up for this with continued improvement from Vollmer at RT.

If Mankins were re-signed, we would have Neal and Connolly sharing a roster spot going into the draft.

Kaczur, Mankins, Koppen, Neal/Connolly, Vollmer
Barring starting a rookie, there would only be one change from 2010.
I think this line would work out fine.

Any of the rest can be upgraded
OG/C Wendell, Ohrnberger/Bussey
OT Ojinnaka, LeVoir/Maneri

If you let Light go and promote Kazcur, you set off a chain reaction:

Likely worse at LT
Certainly worse at RT
Either a completely revamped right side or a Connolly/Kaczur combo over there
Loss of quality depth
Need to either pay free agent money for a top shelf backup/starter guy instead of trolling the bargain bins for the Connolly's of the world, or to draft a tackle high enough to be confident that he can fill that role from day one.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I want to re-sign Light, and would even consider franchising him. That being said, if Light goes, I would expect Kaczur to play LT as he did in his rookie year, perhaps being pushed by a rookie. IF NICK IS HEALTHY, he would be a step down from Light, but we would somewhat make up for this with continued improvement from Vollmer at RT.

If Mankins were re-signed, we would have Neal and Connolly sharing a roster spot going into the draft.

Kaczur, Mankins, Koppen, Neal/Connolly, Vollmer
Barring starting a rookie, there would only be one change from 2010.
I think this line would work out fine.

Any of the rest can be upgraded
OG/C Wendell, Ohrnberger/Bussey
OT Ojinnaka, LeVoir/Maneri

Kaczur was too slow to play RT ... and he's going to be quicker at LT ...

seriously ... you're kidding right?

 

[Coach42]

Coach, no offense meant but, other than Welker, that's precisely what this wide receiver corps is right now. Tate and Price might become the next two great receivers compared to Jerry Rice, but neither of them belongs starting for a Super Bowl contender right now. Edelman may be the next Welker, but he's nowhere near that right now. And that's a problem, since the Patriots aren't in a 5 year developmental mode.

I'm a bit confused because before the season started and after the first Jets game and after the Browns game this was a team rebuilding and developing players. So because the played well, with the players that a lot of people didn't think were good before the season started, now when are shifted right back into win now mode? I would disagree with that.

This was basically Tate's rookie year. He did not play great but I don't think he played that poorly either. I think another factor that is being overlooked is that they didn't run as many 3 wr sets as they have in previous years and Woodhead, Gronk, and Hernandez also took some balls away that in previous seasons probably would have gone to the 3rd WR. I think they could certainly use some more talent at the position but other than QB and maybe MLB what spot couldn't? Even those spots could use more quality depth even though it would only be a luxury. Think about Brace and Chung, neither contributed all that much last year and both were big contributors this season. Why couldn't Tate do that when next year will essentially be his equivalent of a second year?

 

[ATippett56]

If Mankins were re-signed, we would have Neal and Connolly sharing a roster spot going into the draft.

Kaczur, Mankins, Koppen, Neal/Connolly, Vollmer
Barring starting a rookie, there would only be one change from 2010.
I think this line would work out fine.

Any of the rest can be upgraded
OG/C Wendell, Ohrnberger/Bussey
OT Ojinnaka, LeVoir/Maneri

With that line-up, I'll take the over/under of eight games that Brady ends up on IR!

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm a bit confused because before the season started and after the first Jets game and after the Browns game this was a team rebuilding and developing players. So because the played well, with the players that a lot of people didn't think were good before the season started, now when are shifted right back into win now mode? I would disagree with that.

I had them winning the division this year, so the rebuilding argument doesn't really hold water with me.

This was basically Tate's rookie year. He did not play great but I don't think he played that poorly either. I think another factor that is being overlooked is that they didn't run as many 3 wr sets as they have in previous years and Woodhead, Gronk, and Hernandez also took some balls away that in previous seasons probably would have gone to the 3rd WR. I think they could certainly use some more talent at the position but other than QB and maybe MLB what spot couldn't? Even those spots could use more quality depth even though it would only be a luxury. Think about Brace and Chung, neither contributed all that much last year and both were big contributors this season. Why couldn't Tate do that when next year will essentially be his equivalent of a second year?

Tate was a huge disappointment. I don't see how you can look at it any other way. He went without a catch in 4 games this past year, and had just one catch in another 5 games. That means that he failed to get multiple receptions in a majority of the games he played in this year. When you go up to 2 receptions (4 games), you get 13 out of 16 games where he tallied 2 receptions or fewer. Whether you want to call him the #2 or #3 wideout, that's an unacceptable situation on a team that throws the ball as often as the Patriots do.

Tate played in 502 offensive snaps out of 1012. Branch played in 521, Hernandez 486, Woodhead 394, Crumpler 540, Welker 715 and Gronkowski 756. It's not as if his snap count was radically lower than most of the other receivers on the team, but only Crumpler, the pure blocking tight end, had fewer receptions. Outside of Crumpler, Woodhead was the closest in numbers and, in more than 100 fewer snaps, he still had 10 more receptions.

 

[Coach42]

I had them winning the division this year, so the rebuilding argument doesn't really hold water with me.



Tate was a huge disappointment. I don't see how you can look at it any other way. He went without a catch in 4 games this past year, and had just one catch in another 5 games. That means that he failed to get multiple receptions in a majority of the games he played in this year. When you go up to 2 receptions (4 games), you get 13 out of 16 games where he tallied 2 receptions or fewer. Whether you want to call him the #2 or #3 wideout, that's an unacceptable situation on a team that throws the ball as often as the Patriots do.

Tate played in 502 offensive snaps out of 1012. Branch played in 521, Hernandez 486, Woodhead 394, Crumpler 540, Welker 715 and Gronkowski 756. It's not as if his snap count was radically lower than most of the other receivers on the team, but only Crumpler, the pure blocking tight end, had fewer receptions. Outside of Crumpler, Woodhead was the closest in numbers and, in more than 100 fewer snaps, he still had 10 more receptions.

Just because you picked the team to win the division does not change the age of the players on the roster. I don't know how you can look at the defense and not say it was rebuilding this year when it often featured 4 rookies and 8 new starters. They played great and expectations were raised exponentially but that doesn't change the roster turnover from 09.

Woodhead was not a rookie and Tate essentially was. Woodhead is catching screen passes and high percentage short passes while tate was asked to go deep. Tate averaged 18 yards a pop in doing so. Again I'm not saying I don't expect more from Tate or Tate somehow had a good year. I'm just preaching patience with his development. Next year will be crucial for him.