Brady's last year as a Patriot?

[Ivan]

While I don't disagree with your overall sentiment about Brady and the amazing upside it would take to consider replacing him, I hardly think JG is an unknown theory to the Patriots organization. This has been a very common misnomer by a lot of posters who are trying to oversimplify the situation and ignoring some legitimate signs that the Patriots are uncommitted on their future at the position. People are operating under the wrong assumption that BB knows as little about Garopollo as we do.

Garopollo may be the worthy successor the team had hoped for in 2014, and Brady may not demonstrate any signs of regression and continue playing at an otherworldly level. Both things can be true at once, and they most likely are. That's why there is such a divide on this forum and a hesitation from the team to rush to resolve the issue.

I never said Garrapolo was an " unknown" to the Patriots organization, I said he's unproven, there's a big difference. I'm sure Garrapolo has shown that he understands the offense and the reads and check downs etc etc, what he hasn't done is proven he can run it consistently, game after game, week after week, in fact he hasn't even shown he can be out on the field week after week. He's never brought them back to win a game, he's never shown he can adapt when defensive coordinators game plan for his strengths and weaknesses, he's never shown he can rebound from adversity, and he's never shown he can make the big plays with the game or season on the line. I'm not saying that's his fault because he's stuck behind the GOAT , but it's still a fact that he's never proven he can do any of these things, and getting rid of the greatest player to do all of them, especially while he's at the top of his game, is nothing short of batsh.t crazy, and it presumes that Belichick is a total moron, because only a total moron would get rid of Brady to test out whether Garrapolo can do these things or not.

 

[DW Toys]

Do you have high expectations in Brissett to lead this team to 10-14 wins this season if Brady goes down? I think Jimmy could do that. BB showed this offseason that he values proven players over picks. So this shouldn't be a surprise.

Slow the roll Cousin. Jimmy G has started in exactly 1.5 games last year. Why are we putting his bust in Canton? What am I missing?
It has all been "I think" and "I know" etc. I have high hopes for him as well, but I thought Mallett was a keeper.

I for one think agree and think BB is much better obtaining proven players and trades. He is mediocre on Drafting. About average. Better on the bottom end.

You can't tell what a kid will do under a spot light. That is why only 17% on average of every NFL Team Draft is successful in a fair three year term period of evaluation. If you have a Draft and get two or three starters or quality back-ups per year you are about average. Most bad Teams are the ones that have the most Draft choices sticking, because the rest of their personnel needs to be replaced. Does not mean they had a great Draft.

You could still have it both ways. If we pick up two or three "right now contributors" from the Draft to supplement a vary good looking FA period and trades, this is a good thing.

I will be bold here and say as a back up, taking a Brock Osweiler as part of the Jimmy G trade is not a bad thing if the reports of someone who knows someone, who knows someone very close to the Pats says that or current back up to our back up is tainted groceries and the Tuna sold BB a bill of goods on Brissett.

Lets hope the Clip Board stays in the holster this year on any of them, but if Osweiler can be coached up by Josh just a little, why could not Osweiler lead us to ten wins as an emergency QB then? The Texans won 10 Games last year and Osweiler started most.He was about a 60% passer about the same as Broncos starter Simien and without a doubt better than any Browns QB.

I am NOT an Osweiler fanboy. I just don't know how much more confidence I would have in Jimmy G as replacement in an emergency for some time versus the more experienced Osweiler. Again pending he buys in and his mechanics are tuned up.
He out played Brady for most of the playoff game.

So my thought is, lets bring in some blue chippers in the Draft and would not be upset if the Browns ate some salary and Osweiler was a throw in.
DW Toys

 

[deroc5050]

If the Browns were offering the #12 pick and multiple 2nd rounders it would make me wonder what the future is. But we simply don't know what Cleveland has offered and Adam Schefter has been adamantly reporting that the Patriots are in no way trading JG. I think the OP has sound thinking. In the history of the NFL no QB has ever really had a good season at the age of 41. So BB is probably thinking keep JG in case of injury or sharp decline in Brady and worst case scenario BB franchises JG in 2018 and keeps both QB's if the salary cap allows it. By 2019 I could then see BB moving on from TB and going with the younger JG.

This is the only set of events that makes sense to me IF the Pats are passing up on a large amount of draft stock this off season.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I wish Tom Brady would just die.

You're not alone here!

 

[pazrul72]

I said this in one of the 100 other Grop/Brady threads but I feel it needs repeating. Assume pick #12 is on the table plus change, something like 12, 33, and a 2nd next year, who are you taking at 12? It's at the point in the year you can't just say oh boy with that pick we can get a pro bowl caliber player for the next 5 years for really cheap. That's worth way more then a good, possibly great, back up. Knowing Bill he probably only has that kind of grade on 4-6 of the top players in the draft. It's not enough to hope one of those guys falls I would bet good money that the essence of a deal is in place and if one of those players he actually wants and feels would be a good piece of the puzzle falls then the deal goes down. Otherwise having a quality back up for a 40 year old QB is hardly the worst problem to have.

That's the other thing at #12 you aren't talking about a player who will instantly transform the franchise. You are talking about a player who in year 2-3 will be a quality part of the team. Think Mayo or Soldier, good? Certainly. Franchise altering? Hardly. I don't follow college ball enough to tell you who the 4-6 players on bill's list are I can only tell you from following the team for years that not everyone is cut out to be a patriot. It's hard work and not fun all the time. You get coached hard and excellence isn't just strived for it's expected. I am at the point now where I will wait until draft time when Cleveland is on the clock with pick #12 because any further discussion has been talked out without new facts so it's become beyond redundant.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

If the Browns were offering the #12 pick and multiple 2nd rounders it would make me wonder what the future is. But we simply don't know what Cleveland has offered and Adam Schefter has been adamantly reporting that the Patriots are in no way trading JG. I think the OP has sound thinking....BB franchises JG in 2018 and keeps both QB's if the salary cap allows it. .

Doesn't anyone here read QMs post about Brady's contract and Cap space impact in 2018? I guess not!

 

[luuked]

No, but if Garoppolo is on this team in 2018 I expect Brady to be playing elsewhere.

Brady won't play anywhere else. This is not some kind of romanticized view but purely pragmatic

New England (and maybe the Texans) are the only place where he has a shot at playing successfully for another 2-4 years. We have heard how difficult it is for players to gain Brady's trust. Also, he is still elite because the coaching staff here knows exactly how to empasize his strengths and how to use him.

How about an entire new team, new system and new set of coaches ? At that age ?

He knows this as well. Nobody who is rebuilding or sucks will trade for a 40y+ QB and Brady won't acccept playing anywhere where he can't actually compete on a high level.

While it made sense for players like Favre (the gunslinger prototype) or Manning (Mr. 3-4 plays in the playbook) to continueon somewhere else there is just no way Brady has the time at his age to go to a team that then needs to install an entirely new offense that suits him and acquire someadditional players that can play in it

 

[Deus Irae]

Brady won't play anywhere else. This is not some kind of romanticized view but purely pragmatic

New England (and maybe the Texans) are the only place where he has a shot at playing successfully for another 2-4 years. We have heard how difficult it is for players to gain Brady's trust. Also, he is still elite because the coaching staff here knows exactly how to empasize his strengths and how to use him.

How about an entire new team, new system and new set of coaches ? At that age ?

He knows this as well. Nobody who is rebuilding or sucks will trade for a 40y+ QB and Brady won't acccept playing anywhere where he can't actually compete on a high level.

While it made sense for players like Favre (the gunslinger prototype) or Manning (Mr. 3-4 plays in the playbook) to continueon somewhere else there is just no way Brady has the time at his age to go to a team that then needs to install an entirely new offense that suits him and acquire someadditional players that can play in it

Tom could excel in a number of other locations. Just a quick look at the AFC brings up 3 easy locations.

Cin - Dalton could be cut with minimal hit
JAX - that's an offense just begging for a legit QB
KC - Easy upgrade to Smith, with a minimal hit

 

[Big Bucks]

how did this get to 5 pages

oh

Are we there yet!?

 

[deroc5050]

Brady won't play anywhere else. This is not some kind of romanticized view but purely pragmatic

New England (and maybe the Texans) are the only place where he has a shot at playing successfully for another 2-4 years. We have heard how difficult it is for players to gain Brady's trust. Also, he is still elite because the coaching staff here knows exactly how to empasize his strengths and how to use him.

How about an entire new team, new system and new set of coaches ? At that age ?

He knows this as well. Nobody who is rebuilding or sucks will trade for a 40y+ QB and Brady won't acccept playing anywhere where he can't actually compete on a high level.

While it made sense for players like Favre (the gunslinger prototype) or Manning (Mr. 3-4 plays in the playbook) to continueon somewhere else there is just no way Brady has the time at his age to go to a team that then needs to install an entirely new offense that suits him and acquire someadditional players that can play in it

It depends if you give Brady 3.5 seconds or more to throw the ball then he could succeed in any offense. Don't sell Brady short he can adapt to just about any offense. Barring option running plays.

 

[deroc5050]

Doesn't anyone here read QMs post about Brady's contract and Cap space impact in 2018? I guess not!

No I didn't read anything recently about Brady's contract. I thought the cap hit went down after 2018 that's all I recall. Regardless it seems to me its a long shot for the Patriots to pay 2 QB's starting QB money. Is a 1st and 2 2nd rounders worth it for 1 year of JG as a back up? Either the Browns are not offering enough or the Patriots are adamant about keeping JG. To me this only makes sense if they plan on moving ahead with JG.

The only thing to consider is that no QB age 41 or older has ever really had a good season in the NFL.

Also what if the Patriots roll over 20-25 million from next season into 2018?

 

[kennyb]

I think the op's premise that "if bb has jg on the roster this year, then he must be part of the long term solution" is utterly wrong. It's an baseless supposition.

BB may simply see him as insurance. And a cheap option. If brady regresses or retires or gets badly injured, jg is waiting in the wings not just during the year but for future years. If brady has a great mvp type sb winning year, you think bb cuts him for jg? Really? That to me is delusional.

In short, bb has no plan other than to be prepared for a possible contingency. If the contingency doesnt arise, he'll play it by ear next year.

That's my take.

 

[luuked]

Tom could excel in a number of other locations. Just a quick look at the AFC brings up 3 easy locations.

Cin - Dalton could be cut with minimal hit
JAX - that's an offense just begging for a legit QB
KC - Easy upgrade to Smith, with a minimal hit

The Bengals I don't see as a viable option because they have more pieces to rebuild. Time is Tom's most valuable resource right now so spending a year there while they are retooling seems like a waste.

Also, personally, I don't see him being traded to KC as they are close enough to be a real contender similarly to the Texans. Of course if BB evaluates him to be as shot as Bledsoe was then maybe.

 

[Ivan]

No I didn't read anything recently about Brady's contract. I thought the cap hit went down after 2018 that's all I recall. Regardless it seems to me its a long shot for the Patriots to pay 2 QB's starting QB money. Is a 1st and 2 2nd rounders worth it for 1 year of JG as a back up? Either the Browns are not offering enough or the Patriots are adamant about keeping JG. To me this only makes sense if they plan on moving ahead with JG.

The only thing to consider is that no QB age 41 or older has ever really had a good season in the NFL.

Also what if the Patriots roll over 20-25 million from next season into 2018?

The player who couldn't make it though two games was Garrapolo, not Brady. I can't wait too see Brady have another MVP season and shove it down the throats of everyone talking complete sh.t about him. If you guys had your way in 2014 this team would be missing two Lombardi's.

 

[Ivan]

No I didn't read anything recently about Brady's contract. I thought the cap hit went down after 2018 that's all I recall. Regardless it seems to me its a long shot for the Patriots to pay 2 QB's starting QB money. Is a 1st and 2 2nd rounders worth it for 1 year of JG as a back up? Either the Browns are not offering enough or the Patriots are adamant about keeping JG. To me this only makes sense if they plan on moving ahead with JG.

The only thing to consider is that no QB age 41 or older has ever really had a good season in the NFL.

Also what if the Patriots roll over 20-25 million from next season into 2018?

Feel free to name the QBs who got progressively better at 37,38,39 and won two Super Bowl MVP's in that time span?

At what point do people finally understand that Brady isn't Favre or Manning or any of the other players who never trained to keep playing at a high level at this age?

 

[PatriotsReign]

Before everyone throws stones at me, consider....

* Apparently, BB has decided to keep his backup QB and NOT trade him for what would be a huge amounts of picks, meaning he truly, truly values JG.

* After this season, no matter what happens, JG will be a free agent and if BB let's him walk, it means he got a season of having a quality backup QB who rarely played (likely scenario) and that would be it. Unless...

* He either gives JG the franchise tag or signs him to a new long term deal which of course would only happen if JG thought he was going to be the NE QB the following season; otherwise, JG would never sign a long term deal.

* So, let's consider the possibility that JG is given the franchise tag for a season. That means paying him more than Tom Brady and committing HUGE bucks to the QB position. Does anyone in his right mind think that's going to happen? Of course not.

* So keeping JG comes down to this: choosing between Tom Brady and JG. After this season, you can't have both. And you've (BB) already turned your back on multiple draft picks to keep JG so logically doesn't it make sense to keep the guy who's younger?

* As crazy as it seems, keeping JG this season reveals what's likely to happen the following season: Belichick keeping JG long term, making him the starter, and moving on from Tom Brady. I'm just not sure how it plays out any other way. What would a franchise give up for a 40 year old QB -- even one as good as Tom Brady? You might get a late 1st on a contending team.

* Tom Brady clearly wants to play 5 more seasons. Sticking with JG this year is a HUGE clue that that isn't likely to happen. Some will surely be very angry with BB. But does anyone doubt Belichick's fearlessness when it comes to doing what he thinks is best for the franchise? Bottom line here: enjoy this season. Hopefully it ends in another Super Bowl victory because Brady's last season as a Patriot could be this one.

Felger....is that you?

Personally, I hope Brady doesn't try to play 5 more years. I'd prefer he go out on top

 

[aluminum seats]

The player who couldn't make it though two games was Garrapolo, not Brady. I can't wait too see Brady have another MVP season and shove it down the throats of everyone talking complete sh.t about him. If you guys had your way in 2014 this team would be missing two Lombardi's.

Ivan, I'm pretty sure everyone here likes Tom Brady a lot.

Also, we don't know what's been offered for JG. But let's say, just for fun, that the Pats were offered a package that includes this year's #12. Would you take it?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Well, that's exactly what they'll be doing if they cut or trade Brady after the 2017 season. He has a very large cap hit (around $15 mil, IIRC) even if cut or traded.

To me, that above all is the indicator JG will be gone. By extending Brady's contract (which originally ended at the end of 2017) they intentionally or not made it really, really hard to switch away from Brady before 2019.

No I didn't read anything recently about Brady's contract. I thought the cap hit went down after 2018 that's all I recall. Regardless it seems to me its a long shot for the Patriots to pay 2 QB's starting QB money. Is a 1st and 2 2nd rounders worth it for 1 year of JG as a back up? Either the Browns are not offering enough or the Patriots are adamant about keeping JG. To me this only makes sense if they plan on moving ahead with JG.

The only thing to consider is that no QB age 41 or older has ever really had a good season in the NFL.

Also what if the Patriots roll over 20-25 million from next season into 2018?

there it is

 

[Clonamery]

Doesn't anyone here read QMs post about Brady's contract and Cap space impact in 2018? I guess not!

No time! Fake news! Don't spoil my thought process/fantasy! Must now cross street while texting, ignore traffic sounds!

 

[Simpelton]

No, but if Garoppolo is on this team in 2018 I expect Brady to be playing elsewhere.

And if that happens, it's because BB has decided, and probably both accurately and for the right reasons, that it would be the best thing for the franchise.