Brady vs Rodgers vs Manning

[Quientus]

Polian vs Belichick as GM? I can't stand Polian but the guy was a great GM until recently. Well he's retired I believe but you know what I mean.

Yes, because that is actually something I must admit, I haven't really looked into as much, as I find it more difficult to actually compare "GM stats" (if those exist?) ...

From what I gather Polian ended up leaving the Colts in quite a mess ? (Or am I wrong ?)

 

[robbomango]

Yes, because that is actually something I must admit, I haven't really looked into as much, as I find it more difficult to actually compare "GM stats" (if those exist?) ...

From what I gather Polian ended up leaving the Colts in quite a mess ? (Or am I wrong ?)

That's what I meant when I said until recently...

Leaving Curtis FREAKIN Painter in for 11 games didn't help things much either...

 

[Demosthenes]

You say it's subjective because you ignore facts.
It isn't subjective. It's very much objective.

You get them confused because of your reliance on "hypothetically if Brady didn't play for the Patriots in this dimension and instead played with the Titans in another universe maybe this, this and that would change."

I said it was highly subjective because it absolutely is. There's no real quantifiable way to make the determination.What do you want to go by ? Number of rings ? I've covered that one already. Number of victories ? That has a lot to do with the team and coaching staff. Total passing yards ? Yards per attempt/completion ? Number of completions ? Passing TDs ? Number of passing titles?

It's like asking "Who is the best running back ever? What are you going to go by there ? Total yards ? Yards per carry ? Total TDs ? Number of 100 yard games in career ? Number of 1000 yard seasons ? Most yards in a season ?


Take last year's playoffs for example. If Belichick had been coaching the Broncos instead of John Fox, then the Broncos probably would have been in the SB instead of the Ravens. Why ? Because Belichick wouldn't have told Peyton Manning to take a knee late in the 4th Q when there was plenty of time to go down for a game winning score. Then again, there's a chance that Manning might have choked yet again, but who's to say ?

Any way you slice it, it's a subjective topic.

 

[Demosthenes]

That's what I meant when I said until recently...

Leaving Curtis FREAKIN Painter in for 11 games didn't help things much either...

Well, it did earn them the choice of Luck or RG3.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I said it was highly subjective because it absolutely is. There's no real quantifiable way to make the determination.What do you want to go by ? Number of rings ? I've covered that one already. Number of victories ? That has a lot to do with the team and coaching staff. Total passing yards ? Yards per attempt/completion ? Number of completions ? Passing TDs ? Number of passing titles?

It's like asking "Who is the best running back ever? What are you going to go by there ? Total yards ? Yards per carry ? Total TDs ? Number of 100 yard games in career ? Number of 1000 yard seasons ? Most yards in a season ?


Take last year's playoffs for example. If Belichick had been coaching the Broncos instead of John Fox, then the Broncos probably would have been in the SB instead of the Ravens. Why ? Because Belichick wouldn't have told Peyton Manning to take a knee late in the 4th Q when there was plenty of time to go down for a game winning score. Then again, there's a chance that Manning might have choked yet again, but who's to say ?

Any way you slice it, it's a subjective topic.

Quick summary of the above.
Ignore the facts.
My opinion is my opinion regardless of facts.
I'll throw in a bunch of subjective stuff to further defocus rational thinking.

 

[patsfan13]

My main reason for putting Manning above Brady, is because I believe that Brady, in far more seasons have had a far better team surrounding him than Manning has had, add Belichick (whom you guys "seem" to give Way too little credit) to that, is why my opinion is as it is ...

But that doesn't make mé a troll, nor a "Tebowite"

Look Manning is a very good QB probably top 20 in the history of the league, and a first ballot HOF QB, The thing is he isn't close to Brady who is already arguably the greatest Modern QB ( I differentiate between the post 60's game and the pre 70's game).

His winning % in the regular season is the best in the history of the league and that by a wide margin, he already has more playoff wins that any other QB and more Conference championships that any other QB in the modern era (Otto Graham has more championships but half weren't in the NFL).

When he wins his 4th SB title he is a lock as the GOAT.

As to your boy Manning he couldn't win @ UT, as I recall the immortal T Martin led the Vols to a national championship they years after Manning left having failed to win the SEC much less a national championship.

 

[Deus Irae]

If you say so ..., but take a look at the thread title ;-)

I'm sorry I missed the part stating that you are not allowed to disagree ???

Disagree all you want. Just don't troll while you're doing it and then pretend you aren't, because both of your 'arguments' are garbage/troll arguments.

Matt Cassel took a 2 win team and turned it around enough to win 10 games (and earn his lone Pro Bowl to date) and the division, before melting down. Even with his meltdown, he's still got a career QB rating over 80 and an 82/57 TD/INT ratio.

Curtis Painter has thrown 6 TDs and 11 INTs in his career.

And Denver? Denver was led to the playoffs by Tebow last year, and they won a game in the playoffs. Meanwhile, Peyton managed only 10-6 in his final season in Indy and, after that abomination season with Collins/Painter/Orlovsky, the Colts won 11 games this year, in Luck's rookie season.

Peyton's the biggest playoff choker of his generation and, arguably, of all time. He's not a top 5 QB. He's probably not a top 10 QB.

Meanwhile, it's Brady/Montana/Starr for the G.O.A.T. discussion.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

I said it was highly subjective because it absolutely is. There's no real quantifiable way to make the determination.What do you want to go by ? Number of rings ? I've covered that one already. Number of victories ? That has a lot to do with the team and coaching staff. Total passing yards ? Yards per attempt/completion ? Number of completions ? Passing TDs ? Number of passing titles?

It's like asking "Who is the best running back ever? What are you going to go by there ? Total yards ? Yards per carry ? Total TDs ? Number of 100 yard games in career ? Number of 1000 yard seasons ? Most yards in a season ?


Take last year's playoffs for example. If Belichick had been coaching the Broncos instead of John Fox, then the Broncos probably would have been in the SB instead of the Ravens. Why ? Because Belichick wouldn't have told Peyton Manning to take a knee late in the 4th Q when there was plenty of time to go down for a game winning score. Then again, there's a chance that Manning might have choked yet again, but who's to say ?

Any way you slice it, it's a subjective topic.

2 different teams, 2 different coaches and manning did exactly what he is best at. Making a fast exit. Tebow has more playoff wins as a bronco!

 

[Demosthenes]

Quick summary of the above.
Ignore the facts.
My opinion is my opinion regardless of facts.
I'll throw in a bunch of subjective stuff to further defocus rational thinking.

Heck, let's make this really simple. IF the "GOAT QB" isn't subjective, then please go ahead and list the objective criteria used to determine who it is.

If we were talking about the "all time leader in passing yards in the NFL", that would be objective. You would look at the stats and see Brett Favre leads with 71838 yards. He's the one. Nothing to argue about.

Similarly, if you were looking at the NFL leader in rushing yards in for the 2012 season, you'd again look at the stats, AP at the top of the list with 2097yards, and there's your answer.

These are objective questions because there is no inclusion of any kind of bias. It's measurable. It's clear cut.

With "Who is the GOAT" questions, it's subjective as there isn't a clearly defined criteria to measure by. WHAT you choose to measure (stats or otherwise) influences the outcome as much as what measures you choose to ignore.

Again, let's look at the question of Greatest running back of all time.

IF you go by most career rushing yards, it's Emmitt Smith.
IF you go by single season rushing yards, it's Eric ****erson.
IF you go by career rushing TDs, again, it's Emmitt Smith.
IF you go by single season rushing TDs, it's LaDanian Tomlinson.
IF you go by career yards per carry, it's Bo Jackson.
IF you go by single season yards per carry (200 carries minimum), it's Jamaal Charles.

This is without getting into number of Championships, playoff victories, number of winning seasons, yada, yada, yada. Or looking at other things such as coaching staffs, strength of schedules, overall roster talent,

BTW, I don't see Barry Sander's name included, or Gayle Sayers', or Walter Payton's, or Jim Browne's, etc, etc, etc. Those names being left out of the discussion demonstrates that none of those "objective" methods of determining greatest RB of all times is satisfactory as their names should be in the discussion.

Switching back to QBs, again, please go ahead and list the objective criteria by which the determination is to be made.

I'll be nice and save you the trouble. You can't because there isn't an agreed upon objective criteria. It's subjective.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Moved goalposts.
GOAT is debatable
I'm talking Brady vs Rogers vs Manning. You know, the thread topic before moving the goalposts because you lost that debate.
It isn't close.
I listed the criteria previously.
You don't need to wade thru tones of blathering verbiage to find it either.

 

[PATS16N0]

Moved goalposts.
GOAT is debatable
I'm talking Brady vs Rogers vs Manning. You know, the thread topic before moving the goalposts because you lost that debate.
It isn't close.
I listed the criteria previously.
You don't need to wade thru tones of blathering verbiage to find it either.

Right on, right on, right on.

 

[ivanvamp]

As an aside, the next time you watch the Packers, just concentrate solely on Rodgers. The kid is a phenom. I love Tom and wouldn't swap him for anyone, whilst I respect the heck out of Goober and Brees - but Rodgers is the best in the league by quite a wide margin. He's absolutely poetry in motion. You can't help but like him and respect the way he goes about his business. No histrionics and whining, no throwing team-mates under the bus - just God-given talent on display to the extreme. It's a pleasure to watch him.

I think most folks around here would take Brady over Rodgers. But if you asked the question of which QB would you want starting a team right now, I think a lot of people would take Rodgers, simply because of the age factor.

But seriously, either one is all-world.

 

[PATS16N0]

I think Rodgers is in a lot of ways a phenom, like an above poster said. He's really nimble and agile and cat like on the field, and has a rifle of an arm.

That said, I do think he's slightly overrated because of his 2011 season, which was the result of many factors beyond just his skill, including defenses not benefiting from a training camp, as well as a very soft schedule.

I don't really care about "QBR", which is what everyone likes to bring up when bragging about Rodgers.

I'll take Tom's ability to breath fire on opposing defenses any day of the week.
His near comeback against the 49'ers last season was a good reminder of who our quarterback is, as well as his annihilation of the Texans.

Tom is Mr. Big Time. The bigger the stage, the greater he usually plays.

To me, Tom is just the GOAT and that's all there is too it.
When Rodgers orchestrates some 4th quarter comebacks in the Superbowl or post season I'll think about moving him up near Tom's level.

Until then, a lot of what Rodgers does is just flash IMO. It lacks the substance that Tom's play has.

I also hate that he seems to prefer eating a 10 yard sack than have an incomplete pass on his game stats.

 

[PATS16N0]

Also, from what I've seen Rodgers doesn't handle adversity really well, which is where our quarterback seems to thrive.

 

[patsinthesnow]

It's Brady vs. Rodgers. Manning is a slightly inferior Brady with the same playing style. (Old, pocket, smart QB)

Rodgers has a stronger arm than Brady.
Rodgers is more accurate than Brady.
Rodgers is faster/mobile than Brady.

Brady has better decision making than Rodgers.
Brady has better leadership/attitude than Rodgers. (this is more subjective)
Brady has vastly better pocket presence than Rodgers, Rodgers achilles heel.

With that, I give the slight edge to Brady. Don't be fooled by packers fans that claim its all the Pack's OL for Rodger's troubles. Rodgers holds onto the ball way too long and gets sacked way too often. His pocket presence leaves alot to be desired, but he has the best arm/accuracy/speed of any QB in NFL history.

Having said that, Rodgers is probably one of only maybe 2 players in the NFL (the other being Russell Wilson, the only other QB in the league that rival's Brady's QB presence/attitude) that I would trade Brady straight up for, due to age.

 

[Sivy]

There are two reasons why people think Peyton is the best qb ever.

1. He flops his arms around like a bird, squacks out nonsense and barks out "orders"

2. And most important, they like his commercials

 

[Joker]

I was married to a "squacks out nonsense" once....I wrote a Victorian novella about her after being surgically removed from the relationship...The Squacking Squabbler of Squantum Square....a sordid tale of the squirrel faced harpie who finds true happiness married to a deaf mute...I think Random House has it on the rack for .35 cents...

 

[PATS16N0]

Kurt Warner's top 10 quarterbacks - NFL Videos

 

[patsinthesnow]

why isnt Brees in this discussion? lol Beats Manning and Rogers on most stats. Just saying, and same SB count. This a guys we like club?

eer did Brees loss points for being intellegent, having his own opinion, anoying, to small, or the mole ,hehe

Brees has been shafted for his 2012 season, with everyone putting him at the de-facto 4 spot in QB rankings.

It's probably unfair, considering his defense was 7 points and 29 yards worse than the worst BB defense ever.

2012 Saints defense:
28.4 ppg
440ypg

2011 Pats defense:
21.4ppg
411ypg

Brees got screwed last season. Who knows what Brady would of done with McDaniels at HC and a defense substantially worse than 2011.

 

[Sivy]

Brady beat peyton at everything. He even has the best line in a commercial

"I am the guy on the F%cking standee"