Brady Sr. Says what I’ve been saying all along.

[PatsWickedPissah]

moosekill, MAC10 (troll), Wozzy, Ring 6 (troll), Patsgofor4, DaBruinz, patfanken, rochrist, LFGMac10, Sam Bam Cunningham, NewEraWithMac (troll), JMC00, Rob0729, upstater1, Kasmir, Robert Weathers (captain, but actually not a cultist)

I sorta consider myself on team Bill whatever that means despite myriad mistakes like pissing away the Eagles SB by not playing Butler, piss poor WR drafting and disrespecting TFB by not offering him rational contract extensions. Folks have flaws.

But I've always been a Brady's Lady and think he made the right decision for him to go to Tampa.

 

[venecol]

Agree.

If this team does what I think they are capable of they will be in the playoffs as a lower seed.

If BB does what I think he and the team is capable of, next year they will be a legit contender.

If they fail in both years it's time for BB to move on.

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you that the Chairman & CEO of Team Bill would call for his head unless he puts out a legit contender by next season.

I'm no fan of Bill. In fact, I think he's an azzhole but he's a good coach. I always thought he would retire in his early 70s like so many other legendary coaches have but being canned for not winning a division at this stage of his career? Wow

 

[1960Pats]

His dad and best friend/business partner are "outsiders," just giving their opinions. Right.

Do people really believe that? I don't. That was out the window when Curran asked Tom Sr if Tom Jr felt the same way and he replied with damn right.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This is what I like most about this discussion. You're 100% correct. It's hard to build a winning team without the better PLAYERS. That's why I support Tom over Bill every time and twice on Sunday.

I have no issue with fans who support Tom Brady more than Bill. It's a free country and it's a fact players win games. Even Bill has said that.

However, GMs and coaches build organizations and winning teams and Bill is the very best to have ever done it.

It's fans that refuse to acknowledge that simple fact is what drives me absolutely crazy.

Having said that, how the hell did Lovie Smith get to a SB with Rex Grossman. They had to have one heck of a defense.

Weak conference. Home field advantage. The SB showed how inferior they were.

I firmly believe without Tom, Bill would have field contenting teams.

 

[venecol]

As of today, September 24, 2021 AD, Bill Belichick is the most important part of the Patriots organization. This means that I would take Bill as of today over any other part of the team. You, on the other hand, say it's Mac Jones, which means you would take Mac over any part of the organization as of today.

So Bill is playing in the OL this week? You're the biggest honk on this forum.


LMFAO

 

[amfootball]

Agree.

If this team does what I think they are capable of they will be in the playoffs as a lower seed.

If BB does what I think he and the team is capable of, next year they will be a legit contender.

If they fail in both years it's time for BB to move on.

Those are high stakes especially for next year IMO. Let me ask you - do you think this roster is good this year? I think it is decent but already some of our FAs do not look worth their contracts - Godcheaux, both TEs, Mills. Judon looks excellent. The Trent Brown trade looks like it could be a disaster depending on how his calf holds up, he missed multiple games last year with it which is why Oakland was fine moving on from him. We traded Sony and Harris has a dislocated finger leaving us with a rookie who fumbled in week one and was benched as our starting RB potentially this week.

I say all this, because this belief that Bill can turn us into legit contenders that quickly is unfair IMO. We don't even know if Jones really has the goods or if he will be check down Charlie. My point is, we just spend $150 million in FA to try and rebuild on the fly. That rarely works especially when you throw in a rookie QB.

My belief is Bill is not capable anymore of building a championship contender team which is why Kraft brought in several personnel guys to get this team on the right track sooner rather than later. I also think Kraft may be regretting keeping Bill over Brady.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you that the Chairman & CEO of Team Bill would call for his head unless he puts out a legit contender by next season.

I'm no fan of Bill. In fact, I think he's an azzhole but he's a good coach. I always thought he would retire in his early 70s like so many other legendary coaches have but being canned for not winning a division at this stage of his career? Wow

I want to win- period and I don't care who does it.

Bill has proven he knows how to build winners and has my loyalty.

I've lived through the early and late 80s, early 90s and the Pete Carroll era.....I have no interest in going through that again.

 

[Kontradiction]

As of today, September 24, 2021 AD, Bill Belichick is the most important part of the Patriots organization. This means that I would take Bill as of today over any other part of the team. You, on the other hand, say it's Mac Jones, which means you would take Mac over any part of the organization as of today.

Ah, so you were just intending to ask a loaded question by making it an either/or scenario when it didn’t need to be. Got it. I’d like both. You need players and coaches. The players are more important. Bill himself has said this. Don’t agree? Take it up with him. The most important player on the roster is the QB. Therefore, Mac Jones is the most important member of the organization. We sink or swim depending on his growth as a QB. Bill and the coaching staff would rank behind the players in terms of order of importance.

 

[Tunescribe]

Getting a bit frustrated, are we? Tends to happen when you stick with an argument that’s DOA. And yeah, they are. Is your dad still alive? How often do you talk to him about you work? Neither of them are Tom Brady. Neither of them are in the building, the film room, etc every day. They are, effectively, outsiders. Outsiders, by definition, are people who do not belong to a particular group. The group in question is a football team - players and coaches. Tom Sr and Guerrero are neither. Therefore, they are outsiders.

I'm not frustrated at all. I just find your white-knuckle grip on failed arguments beginning with a false equivalency and segueing to a demonstrable dearth of common sense richly deserving of a laughing crowd gif.

 

[Tunescribe]

Do people really believe that? I don't. That was out the window when Curran asked Tom Sr if Tom Jr felt the same way and he replied with damn right.

@KontradictioN believes it.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm not frustrated at all. I just find your white-knuckle grip on failed arguments beginning with a false equivalency and segueing to a demonstrable dearth of common sense richly deserving of a laughing crowd gif.

Heh. That’s ironic. You were the guy who originally said BB was “always gracious in victory and humble in defeat.” When given numerous examples of times that he wasn’t, you chose not to look into it and, instead, try to straw man and red herring your way out of it. I even gave you an out several times. You got absolutely hammered in this debate because your argument isn’t anything approaching logical. In other words, you’re arguing with your heart. I’m arguing with my head. Take the out that’s given to you next time.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Those are high stakes especially for next year IMO. Let me ask you - do you think this roster is good this year? I think it is decent but already some of our FAs do not look worth their contracts - Godcheaux, both TEs, Mills. Judon looks excellent. The Trent Brown trade looks like it could be a disaster depending on how his calf holds up, he missed multiple games last year with it which is why Oakland was fine moving on from him. We traded Sony and Harris has a dislocated finger leaving us with a rookie who fumbled in week one and was benched as our starting RB potentially this week.

Yes. This is a low seed playoff team right now.

I say all this, because this belief that Bill can turn us into legit contenders that quickly is unfair IMO. We don't even know if Jones really has the goods or if he will be check down Charlie. My point is, we just spend $150 million in FA to try and rebuild on the fly. That rarely works especially when you throw in a rookie QB.

Bill is being paid $20m a year. He chewed through $160m in FA contracts. Mac will be inn Year 2. I have high expectations because Bill set them and has complete organizational control to make it happen.

My belief is Bill is not capable anymore of building a championship contender team which is why Kraft brought in several personnel guys to get this team on the right track sooner rather than later. I also think Kraft may be regretting keeping Bill over Brady.

I think Bob made some suggestions and Bill agreed.

 

[sb1]

Agree.

If this team does what I think they are capable of they will be in the playoffs as a lower seed.

If BB does what I think he and the team is capable of, next year they will be a legit contender.

If they fail in both years it's time for BB to move on.

I predicted 9-8 - I think there are a lot of questions that have to be answered in our favor to think playoffs. Could happen though.

I like thinking that Mac was a home run QB pick. I hope he is. I love the idea we didn't pay anything for him. And nobody is talking about Fields anymore. I also love the idea that Bill saved this team from QB purgatory with this pick. QB purgatory sucks and teams are forced to try again and again and again and again and they're stuck spinning their wheels until they get it right. Bills for example. After Bledsoe - Losman, Edwards, Fitz, Manuel, Orton, Taylor and then finally they got it right with Allen. Took them only 15 years.

Next year with hopefully another nice draft haul they're back in the conversation as a team that can win it all. I doubt Bill will get forever to rebuild the team but barring another spygate or something like it I think his job is more or less safe.

 

[amfootball]

Yes. This is a low seed playoff team right now.


Bill is being paid $20m a year. He chewed through $160m in FA contracts. Mac will be inn Year 2. I have high expectations because Bill set them and has complete organizational control to make it happen.

I think Bob made some suggestions and Bill agreed.

You didn't really answer my main points. You just threw out the money we spent and for some reason cited Bill's salary and his control over the org. Those are the very things I am challenging when looking at our roster this year. It looks decent. It might be a lower seed if things fall our away and Mac progresses but there is a HUGE gap from being a fringe playoff team to being a legit contender. I don't see anywhere near that level of talent on this team. I know we have decent cap space next year for further improvements but IMO a lot needs to improve for us to be in the same class the Chiefs, Bills, Browns. We are nowhere near those teams.

 

[venecol]

Do people really believe that? I don't. That was out the window when Curran asked Tom Sr if Tom Jr felt the same way and he replied with damn right.

He said "Damn right, damn right. Belichick wanted him out the door and last year he threw 56 TDs, I think that's a pretty good year."

Sr. is clearly talking about his boy still having "it" despite Bill kicking him out because of his age. Obviously Tommy still thinks he has it since he's talking about playing until 50.

What's so controversial about any of this?

1. Did Bill want Brady gone? Yes. It was obvious and nobody is disputing that.
2. Was it because of his age and the unknowns of a 43+ QB abilities? Yes
3. Did Tommy kill it last year. Yes

Thus, vindication! Belichick was wrong. We all agree.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I sorta consider myself on team Bill whatever that means despite myriad mistakes like pissing away the Eagles SB by not playing Butler, piss poor WR drafting and disrespecting TFB by not offering him rational contract extensions. Folks have flaws.

But I've always been a Brady's Lady and think he made the right decision for him to go to Tampa.

You can be on Team Bill and believe Bill f-ed up on drafts, etc.

re: TB12 contracts- Tom agreed to the deals. If he played hardball and wanted AR, Brees or Peyton money they sure as **** wouldn't have won 6 Super Bowls and been in 9.

Tom absolutely made the right decision to leave. He had evolved as a person and was sick of BB. BB knew Tom was done and never made him a contract offer.

 

[1960Pats]

I have no issue with fans who support Tom Brady more than Bill. It's a free country and it's a fact players win games. Even Bill has said that.

However, GMs and coaches build organizations and winning teams and Bill is the very best to have ever done it.

It's fans that refuse to acknowledge that simple fact is what drives me absolutely crazy.

Weak conference. Home field advantage. The SB showed how inferior they were.

I firmly believe without Tom, Bill would have field contenting teams.

I think Bill is the greatest HC ever and I truly believe that he'll get the team back into contention now that he has a decent QB. I think the problems come with some fans because of the poor drafts but I can't think of another HC I'd rather see with the Pats.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You didn't really answer my main points.

I'm not sure what more you want me to say. I really don't feel like going all AndyJohnson here...

You just threw out the money we spent and for some reason cited Bill's salary and his control over the org. Those are the very things I am challenging when looking at our roster this year. It looks decent. It might be a lower seed if things fall our away and Mac progresses but there is a HUGE gap from being a fringe playoff team to being a legit contender. I don't see anywhere near that level of talent on this team. I know we have decent cap space next year for further improvements but IMO a lot needs to improve for us to be in the same class the Chiefs, Bills, Browns. We are nowhere near those teams.

I don't agree with your assessment of the talent on the current roster.

I think Bill is the best coach of all time and if given enough talent can out coach and out beat every coach out there.

He is the greatest team -builder of all time and next year (assuming he makes the right moves and Mac makes the Year 2 jump) will have this team contending for a Super Bowl in 2022.

 

[Kontradiction]

I have no issue with fans who support Tom Brady more than Bill. It's a free country and it's a fact players win games. Even Bill has said that.

However, GMs and coaches build organizations and winning teams and Bill is the very best to have ever done it.

It's fans that refuse to acknowledge that simple fact is what drives me absolutely crazy.

Weak conference. Home field advantage. The SB showed how inferior they were.

I firmly believe without Tom, Bill would have field contenting teams.

I root for the team. Tom Brady quarterbacked the team to 6 titles. So I’ll follow the rest of his career with interest unless it negatively impacts the Patriots. I couldn’t care less about what he does off the field or about his brand and how he goes down water slides looking really gay. I only appreciate what he did for the team I root for.

 

[amfootball]

I'm not sure what more you want me to say. I really don't feel like going all AndyJohnson here...

I don't agree with your assessment of the talent on the current roster.

I think Bill is the best coach of all time and if given enough talent can out coach and out beat every coach out there.

He is the greatest team -builder of all time and next year (assuming he makes the right moves and Mac makes the Year 2 jump) will have this team contending for a Super Bowl in 2022.

OK. That's fine. No reason to go Andy Johnson. LOL The bolded is where we disagree and why I don't see 2022 as being the season we are a championship contender. I certainly hope I am wrong though.