Brady Sr. Says what I’ve been saying all along.

[1960Pats]

Always works that way. Weird huh. The more success Brady has away from this team, the more mad they are going to get.

Seeing a good poster banned could be the final straw. I find myself being a little more aggressive about my support for Brady, especially now that the whiners are coming to disrupt the Brady forum.

 

[Kontradiction]

So you would be comfortable right now in keeping Mac Jones over Belichick? Because essentially that's what you are saying...

Not even remotely close to what I’m saying. You need both. But there is a rank order of who is more important than who. Coaches come in behind players because the players need to execute on the field in order to win games. This includes Bill, who has said as much himself. Multiple times. The players are the most important part of any franchise. The most important player on the roster is the quarterback. So that arrow points at Jones right now. But you know that, which is why you were trying to bring up examples of other coaches who had losing records until their all-time great QBs came along.

 

[venecol]

You made me laugh with this. I'm LITERALLY coming from an objective perspective here. LITERALLY. Apparently, you haven't perused Boston-area media's pretty much unanimous conclusion that Brady is using surrogates (dad, Guerrero, etc.) to run interference for him ahead of next week's game and uncomplimentary passages from the forthcoming Wickersham book. Which makes sense, as Tom's personal aversion to media-centric confrontation/controversy is well documented. So if you can't see this as an at least plausible explanation for what's happening you LITERALLY need to recalibrate your incoming info sources. I mean this literally.

It's amazing how the media and seeing things in print differs so much from hearing and seeing the same words. I had not seen video of the interview. His Dad didn't say anything controversial, and looked like a proud father while saying "damn right." This is a nothing burger being inflamed by media and Brady haters.

Please watch and honestly tell me you find this controversial:

 

[Kontradiction]

You made me laugh with this. I'm LITERALLY coming from an objective perspective here. LITERALLY.

Literallaaaaayyyyyyy. You’re not coming anywhere close to an objective perspective. If you had, you wouldn’t have made the case that BB is gracious in victory and humble in defeat when he hasn’t been. You wouldn’t have needed to try to drop one red herring after another to try to distract from the fact that the argument doesn’t hold water. Why are you doing that? It’s pretty obvious - one is here and the other isn’t. Why you don’t want to admit that is beyond me. It’s not like doing so would be a death sentence or anything. It’s obvious to anyone else reading this back and forth and I’m sure it’s obvious to you

Apparently, you haven't perused Boston-area media's pretty much unanimous conclusion that Brady is using surrogates (dad, Guerrero, etc.) to run interference for him ahead of next week's game

Ah yes. The Boston sports media. The beacon of journalistic integrity. Great reference there.

and uncomplimentary passages from the forthcoming Wickersham book. Which makes sense, as Tom's personal aversion to media-centric confrontation/controversy is well documented.

Which makes your contention that he hasn’t always been gracious in victory and humble in defeat even more mind boggling. You’re trying to fit pieces together here which can buttress your argument, but you’re ultimately just grasping at straws.

So if you can't see this as an at least plausible explanation for what's happening you LITERALLY need to recalibrate your incoming info sources. I mean this literally.

I see two separate grown adults giving their opinions as outsiders (and even saying as much) who also gave their opinions as outsiders when Brady was here. That you’re trying to twist that into some flimsy narrative that Brady is an evil genius who is unleashing both upon the Patriots to get his word out is something I can’t help you with here.

 

[1960Pats]

Of course BB benefited enormously from having Brady, but that really is not all you're saying. What I'm saying is one could not have done it without the other.

Brady, in one season, has actually shown that he can win without Bill. In 7 years Bill has not shown that he can win without Brady.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady, in one season, has actually shown that he can win without Bill. In 7 years Bill has not shown that he can win without Brady.

Nonsense. Brady had a choice of going to whatever team he wanted and he convinced Gronk, AB, and Fournette to go along with him. So he ended up on an already talented team and won the SB. If Belichick left the team last year (instead of Brady) and became HC of a talented team, like say KC, you don't think he'd win the SB there?

 

[sb1]

The commentary on this forum goes beyond "being critical" of Belichick. Perhaps I go the other way and bash Brady a bit too much.

I have to disagree about your assessment of Belichick's importance in this organization. I think he's the most important part as of now. Perhaps one day Mac will become a stud and will take over that role but until he does it's Belichick as far as I'm concerned.

I don't think it goes beyond that. Nobody here is cheering for Bill to fail with Mac or for him to get fired. We're all Pats fans.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Not even remotely close to what I’m saying. You need both. But there is a rank order of who is more important than who. Coaches come in behind players because the players need to execute on the field in order to win games. This includes Bill, who has said as much himself. Multiple times. The players are the most important part of any franchise. The most important player on the roster is the quarterback. So that arrow points at Jones right now. But you know that, which is why you were trying to bring up examples of other coaches who had losing records until their all-time great QBs came along.

Yes, but RIGHT NOW (as of week 2), who would you rather have? The arrow may point to Mac Jones, but there's no guarantee where he'll end up.

 

[sb1]

If Belichick left the team last year (instead of Brady) and became HC of a talented team, like say KC, you don't think he'd win the SB there?

Last year proved beyond a doubt that BB cannot turn chicken crap into chicken salad. That should not have been a surprise. It is the same as any other coach in any sport at any time.

QB's can though.

 

[venecol]

Literallaaaaayyyyyyy. You’re not coming anywhere close to an objective perspective. If you had, you wouldn’t have made the case that BB is gracious in victory and humble in defeat when he hasn’t been. You wouldn’t have needed to try to drop one red herring after another to try to distract from the fact that the argument doesn’t hold water. Why are you doing that? It’s pretty obvious - one is here and the other isn’t. Why you don’t want to admit that is beyond me. It’s not like doing so would be a death sentence or anything. It’s obvious to anyone else reading this back and forth and I’m sure it’s obvious to you



Ah yes. The Boston sports media. The beacon of journalistic integrity. Great reference there.



Which makes your contention that he hasn’t always been gracious in victory and humble in defeat even more mind boggling. You’re trying to fit pieces together here which can buttress your argument, but you’re ultimately just grasping at straws.



I see two separate grown adults giving their opinions as outsiders (and even saying as much) who also gave their opinions as outsiders when Brady was here. That you’re trying to twist that into some flimsy narrative that Brady is an evil genius who is unleashing both upon the Patriots to get his word out is something I can’t help you with here.

They didn't even say anything controversial unless you're a soft, uber sensitive honk like @MAC10

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Last year proved beyond a doubt that BB cannot turn chicken crap into chicken salad. That should not have been a surprise. It is the same as any other coach in any sport at any time.

QB's can though.

When has Brady turned chicken crap into chicken salad without the GOAT coach? BB has done so without Brady (in 2008). And he didn't do it in Tampa since Brady had an enormous amount of talent there.

 

[venecol]

Nonsense. Brady had a choice of going to whatever team he wanted and he convinced Gronk, AB, and Fournette to go along with him. So he ended up on an already talented team and won the SB. If Belichick left the team last year (instead of Brady) and became HC of a talented team, like say KC, you don't think he'd win the SB there?

You were all over this board last year challenging Brady had to at least make it to NFCCG for his season to be a success. You had them losing to WFT, NO, GB, and KC. Now it was easy? GTF outta here you honk.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Brady, in one season, has actually shown that he can win without Bill. In 7 years Bill has not shown that he can win without Brady.

It's much, much, much harder to build a winning team with a great QB as opposed to being a HoF QB and joining an already- talented team as a free agent.

 

[venecol]

It's much, much, much harder to build a winning team with a great QB as opposed to being a HoF QB and joining an already- talented team as a free agent.

I agree it's much much harder if you put out a crap team like he did last season. That's why Bill needs until next season to see what he can do w/o the GOAT.

Three seasons should be enough for him to build a contending team. I have no expectations for this season. Hopefully he surprises us.

 

[Tunescribe]

Literallaaaaayyyyyyy. You’re not coming anywhere close to an objective perspective. If you had, you wouldn’t have made the case that BB is gracious in victory and humble in defeat when he hasn’t been. You wouldn’t have needed to try to drop one red herring after another to try to distract from the fact that the argument doesn’t hold water. Why are you doing that? It’s pretty obvious - one is here and the other isn’t. Why you don’t want to admit that is beyond me. It’s not like doing so would be a death sentence or anything. It’s obvious to anyone else reading this back and forth and I’m sure it’s obvious to you



Ah yes. The Boston sports media. The beacon of journalistic integrity. Great reference there.



Which makes your contention that he hasn’t always been gracious in victory and humble in defeat even more mind boggling. You’re trying to fit pieces together here which can buttress your argument, but you’re ultimately just grasping at straws.



I see two separate grown adults giving their opinions as outsiders (and even saying as much) who also gave their opinions as outsiders when Brady was here. That you’re trying to twist that into some flimsy narrative that Brady is an evil genius who is unleashing both upon the Patriots to get his word out is something I can’t help you with here.

His dad and best friend/business partner are "outsiders," just giving their opinions. Right.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yes, but RIGHT NOW (as of week 2), who would you rather have? The arrow may point to Mac Jones, but there's no guarantee where he'll end up.

Can you explain how this is relevant at all to the contention that BB is the most important part of the team… as a coach?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree it's much much harder if you put out a crap team like he did last season. That's why Bill needs until next season to see what he can do w/o the GOAT.

Three seasons should be enough for him to build a contending team. I have no expectations for this season. Hopefully he surprises us.

Agree.

If this team does what I think they are capable of they will be in the playoffs as a lower seed.

If BB does what I think he and the team is capable of, next year they will be a legit contender.

If they fail in both years it's time for BB to move on.

 

[1960Pats]

It's much, much, much harder to build a winning team with a great QB as opposed to being a HoF QB and joining an already- talented team as a free agent.

This is what I like most about this discussion. You're 100% correct. It's hard to build a winning team without the better PLAYERS. That's why I support Tom over Bill every time and twice on Sunday.

Having said that, how the hell did Lovie Smith get to a SB with Rex Grossman. They had to have one heck of a defense.

 

[Kontradiction]

His dad and best friend/business partner are "outsiders," just giving their opinions. Right.

Getting a bit frustrated, are we? Tends to happen when you stick with an argument that’s DOA. And yeah, they are. Is your dad still alive? How often do you talk to him about you work? Neither of them are Tom Brady. Neither of them are in the building, the film room, etc every day. They are, effectively, outsiders. Outsiders, by definition, are people who do not belong to a particular group. The group in question is a football team - players and coaches. Tom Sr and Guerrero are neither. Therefore, they are outsiders.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Can you explain how this is relevant at all to the contention that BB is the most important part of the team… as a coach?

As of today, September 24, 2021 AD, Bill Belichick is the most important part of the Patriots organization. This means that I would take Bill as of today over any other part of the team. You, on the other hand, say it's Mac Jones, which means you would take Mac over any part of the organization as of today.