Brady Sr. Says what I’ve been saying all along.

[Tunescribe]

Not a hater. I just simply don't hold Bill up in efigy like so many others around here. Bill is a good coach with an excellent defensive mind. At the beginning they made each other, but then Brady carried them both through both his play on the field and his locker room leadership.

Your use of "effigy" is wrong yet also ironic in the way you've been skewering BB. Again, Brady was indispensable to the Pats' success throughout his 20 years but he couldn't have done it without BB.

ESPN? OK

It's a documentary with valuable insight into BB's coaching philosophy -- doesn't matter if it was done by ESPN, Al-Jazeera or Nickelodeon.

Then refute it.

Pick any of the playoff years and see how evenly contracts were parsed throughout rosters from top to bottom, with particular attention to reserve players and special-teamers. Also consider the consistent strength of OL personnel and defensive front seven throughout Brady's tenure, along with rare continuity in key positional/coordinator coaching positions. That's BB's doing.

All I'm saying is Bill benefitted enormously by having a stud QB like Brady for 20 years. He avoided all the pain and energy of having to deal with the drama, training, trades, & drafts, of the most important position on the TEAM, the QB. He basically had a 20-yr competitive advantage over the other 31.

Of course BB benefited enormously from having Brady, but that really is not all you're saying. What I'm saying is one could not have done it without the other.

Tampa? Brady won a SB his very 1st yr with Bruce Arians as HC. If that doesn't say it's 75% QB / 25% HC, I don't know what does.

Mickey Mouse could have coached that team to a Super Bowl. Again, Brady was key but a veritable all-star roster on both sides of the ball was served to him on a silver platter.

Bill doesn't last till 2002 with Bledsoe, so in a way Brady saved his HC career.

That's a pretty outlandish statement. Brady was a tightly managed cog in the wheel in 2001. Even then, BB knew in training camp he eventually would supplant Bledsoe, whose injury opened the door sooner than anticipated.

And Brady would've succeeded anywhere outside NE as we already saw w/ the Suckaneers.

"Succeeded" is relative. He probably would've done OK anywhere but not win a title short of a supporting cast like Tampa's.

Post #147 is just conjecture from your part.

Plausible conjecture nonetheless.

I'm not talking about just 2019. This began years prior, when Brady wanted a long term contract extension and was continually stalled.

I need to refresh my memory on details behind this because IIRC, there were complicating factors including the Garoppolo situation. Could be the Pats made a mistake here, but their handling of Brady's contract situation also could be considered defensible from an overall team perspective.

 

[venecol]

so many?

Team Bill

 

[Tunescribe]

Like I said in my first reply to you, let’s just admit that you’re backing BB for the same thing you panned Brady over because he’s still here and Brady isn’t. I could at least respect that. Otherwise, you’re doing a Stretch Armstrong routine that’s completely illogical which is why you’re choosing to ignore the examples in which BB disparaged players to the press after the game. Your original argument does not hold water. You know it. I know it. Admit the obvious and move on.

False equivalency. Your "examples" were BB re. Mason, Wrecks Ryan and Freddie. The first two were not to the press in an interview or Q&A setting and I'm not sure about his Freddie comments.

How is he going to muzzle two men from giving their opinion to the media?

By asking them not to.

They’re free to say what they want. They’ve also spoken to the media when he was here, with Tom Sr famously saying that it “won’t end well” years ago between Brady and BB. Further, WHY should he muzzle them from speaking to the media? To protect your feelings?

My feelings about this are irrelevant. He would "muzzle" them to prevent their comments from being construed as speaking on his behalf, which already has occurred, and to protect the TB12 brand from unwanted controversy.

 

[IllegalContact]

Team Bill

who's on Team Bill? I know one person

 

[Kontradiction]

It's not a forum for Tom Brady butt kissing. It's to discuss anything about Brady, good or bad.

Very ironic.

He's not THE team. But he's currently the most important part of the organization. He's the HC and GM and all football decisions (for better or worse) run through him. I mean if he disgusts people so much, why bother following the Pats?

No, he isn’t. The team on the field makes the plays. He’s even said this himself. Currently, the most important part of the organization is Mac Jones and his growth as a QB. And who said they’re “disgusted” by BB? Being critical of him = / = “being disgusted.” I mean, were you disgusted by him when you posted this?

Belichick criticism mega-thread

Eh, are you rooting for us? Later I don't want to say "I told you so" It's okay to be mad at Bill but we should take the good too. I do. I root for the Patriots. It's a family thing. If we're allowed I'll be back at my seat next season and rooting for the team in every game but one. If I...

www.patsfans.com

3. Not giving Brady any say in coaching the offense

Brady's decision to leave came down to the team (Belichick) not having faith in him in his ability to play at a high level for a few more years and not letting coach the offense (playcalling). I think Brady saw the confidence that was given to other QBs in the league, especially Manning in Denver who basically ran their offense, and wanted the same treatment.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Very ironic.



No, he isn’t. The team on the field makes the plays. He’s even said this himself. Currently, the most important part of the organization is Mac Jones and his growth as a QB. And who said they’re “disgusted” by BB? Being critical of him = / = “being disgusted.” I mean, were you disgusted by him when you posted this?

Belichick criticism mega-thread

Eh, are you rooting for us? Later I don't want to say "I told you so" It's okay to be mad at Bill but we should take the good too. I do. I root for the Patriots. It's a family thing. If we're allowed I'll be back at my seat next season and rooting for the team in every game but one. If I...

www.patsfans.com

The commentary on this forum goes beyond "being critical" of Belichick. Perhaps I go the other way and bash Brady a bit too much.

I have to disagree about your assessment of Belichick's importance in this organization. I think he's the most important part as of now. Perhaps one day Mac will become a stud and will take over that role but until he does it's Belichick as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

who's on Team Bill? I know one person

moosekill, MAC10 (troll), Wozzy, Ring 6 (troll), Patsgofor4, DaBruinz, patfanken, rochrist, LFGMac10, Sam Bam Cunningham, NewEraWithMac (troll), JMC00, Rob0729, upstater1, Kasmir, Robert Weathers (captain, but actually not a cultist)

 

[sb1]

worthy of judging someone today?

I said he probably wouldn't belittle another coach today like that but we shouldn't pretend the guy is a paragon of humility either when clearly he isn't.

 

[Kontradiction]

False equivalency. Your "examples" were BB re. Mason, Wrecks Ryan and Freddie. The first two were not to the press in an interview or Q&A setting and I'm not sure about his Freddie comments.

You haven’t looked into the Mitchell comments yet? I’m shocked. How about Anthony Smith? Or the example that @sb1 gave yesterday? All of which ultimately sink your original point - that he’s gracious in victory and humble in defeat. As a matter of fact, he’s gone out of his way to **** on opposing players to the press more times than Brady ever has.

By asking them not to.

They’re grown men giving their own opinions on the matter. Why would Brady ask them not to?

My feelings about this are irrelevant. He would "muzzle" them to prevent their comments from being construed as speaking on his behalf, which already has occurred, and to protect the TB12 brand from unwanted controversy.

AKA, you FEEL that they are speaking on his behalf. The actual fact is that both have been up front that they’re speaking from the POV of outsiders when asked. So yes, this is very much about how you feel which is ultimately why you’re ignoring BB doing the same thing that you originally panned Brady for. If your feelings didn’t come into play, you’d be a bit more objective. So, as I’ve said, let’s just admit that your beliefs on this one are colored by the laundry and have not been logical at any one point during this back and forth. Then we can drop this charade.

 

[Kontradiction]

The commentary on this forum goes beyond "being critical" of Belichick. Perhaps I go the other way and bash Brady a bit too much.

I have to disagree about your assessment of Belichick's importance in this organization. I think he's the most important part as of now. Perhaps one day Mac will become a stud and will take over that role but until he does it's Belichick as far as I'm concerned.

If Bill is more important than the players, explain why the team had a five game W/L difference after one player left in FA? Explain why he has a losing record as a HC in his career without that one player if he’s so important?

 

[IllegalContact]

I said he probably wouldn't belittle another coach today like that but we shouldn't pretend the guy is a paragon of humility either when clearly he isn't.

obviously........ between Brady and BB, vanity is a problem

 

[1960Pats]

I've never said BB is perfect but the equivalancy you're attempting to draw here doesn't fit this discussion. When has BB ever employed surrogates to execute a grievance campaign? I can't think of any but maybe you can.

I think an example of what you're talking about was Linda's attack on Brady during last year's playoffs. That was the cheap shot that got the Tommy gun firing away this year.

 

[1960Pats]

Every single one of them were on record for public consumption. That’s how we know about them in the first place. Come on, now. You’re better than that.

Tom Sr has been saying crap for years. Even when Brady was here. He’s a jag off. I highly doubt all 3 met or had a conference call where Brady told them to go after Bill. Guerrero even said he doesn’t speak for Brady and neither does Brady’s dad. They were asked what they thought and they gave an honest answer on it.

Damn right!

 

[IllegalContact]

You haven’t looked into the Mitchell comments yet? I’m shocked. How about Anthony Smith? Or the example that @sb1 gave yesterday? All of which ultimately sink your original point - that he’s gracious in victory and humble in defeat. As a matter of fact, he’s gone out of his way to **** on opposing players to the press more times than Brady ever has.

considering over his 20 years with the Pats, he was told what to say or not say at interviews...he did well listening to his boss, but humility has zero to do with either one

They’re grown men giving their own opinions on the matter. Why would Brady ask them not to?

YOU FEEL that they're grown men giving their own opinions


Brady would tell Guerrero to shut up just like BB told Brady to shut up during interviews because Guerrero works for Brady......as for dad, everything he says is a reflection of how Tom feels.......it's very obvious and simple except to the ones being selective with their 'facts'

 

[IllegalContact]

I think an example of what you're talking about was Linda's attack on Brady during last year's playoffs. That was the cheap shot that got the Tommy gun firing away this year.

lol......yeah, that must be it

 

[SHOWTIME15]

If Bill is more important than the players, explain why the team had a five game W/L difference after one player left in FA? Explain why he has a losing record as a HC in his career without that one player if he’s so important?

So you would be comfortable right now in keeping Mac Jones over Belichick? Because essentially that's what you are saying...

 

[venecol]

Your use of "effigy" is wrong yet also ironic in the way you've been skewering BB. Again, Brady was indispensable to the Pats' success throughout his 20 years but he couldn't have done it without BB.

You're right, I meant to say altar.
Disagree on couldn't have done it w/o Brady. See TB Suckaneers. We have a "real" example not a make-believe one.

It's a documentary with valuable insight into BB's coaching philosophy

It's a vanilla documentary w/ NFL owner, both coaches, and their friends. Could've gone way deeper, but ESPN.

Pick any of the playoff years and see how evenly contracts were parsed throughout rosters from top to bottom, with particular attention to reserve players and special-teamers. Also consider the consistent strength of OL personnel and defensive front seven throughout Brady's tenure, along with rare continuity in key positional/coordinator coaching positions. That's BB's doing.

Yes, Brady won despite being surrounded by a middle class roster and a bunch of STers. That's why saying he only won in TB because of all-star roster is comical. As Pats fans we know he doesn't need an all-star roster to win. He has a winning record with four different OCs.

Of course BB benefited enormously from having Brady, but that really is not all you're saying. What I'm saying is one could not have done it without the other.

Brady has done it w/o Bill. Too soon to expect Bill to respond after putting that embarrassing roster on the field last season. He should have until next season to prove he can get it done w/o Brady. I hope he does.

Mickey Mouse could have coached that team to a Super Bowl. Again, Brady was key but a veritable all-star roster on both sides of the ball was served to him on a silver platter.

Come on man. No.
Do I need to get all of the quotes from players & coaches "on both sides of the ball" that said how Brady inspired them and brought the winning culture to Tampa Bay? Stop hating. Give the guy credit for facing enormous hurdles (new team, system, OL, coaches, City, everything, during a pandemic year) and still getting a dysfunctional team to win it all despite themselves.

That's a pretty outlandish statement. Brady was a tightly managed cog in the wheel in 2001. Even then, BB knew in training camp he eventually would supplant Bledsoe, whose injury opened the door sooner than anticipated.

Bill said he was going to bench the $100M QB? When did he say that? Link?

"Succeeded" is relative. He probably would've done OK anywhere but not win a title short of a supporting cast like Tampa's.

Lol on succeeded.

Plausible conjecture nonetheless.

Nah, just simple conjecture.

I need to refresh my memory on details behind this because IIRC, there were complicating factors including the Garoppolo situation. Could be the Pats made a mistake here, but their handling of Brady's contract situation also could be considered defensible from an overall team perspective.

We agree.

 

[IllegalContact]

How many coaches have won SB's with more than one QB?

Seifert
Parcells
Gibbs

interesting how it all happened at the same time and ended with the coming of the salary cap

 

[Tunescribe]

AKA, you FEEL that they are speaking on his behalf. The actual fact is that both have been up front that they’re speaking from the POV of outsiders when asked. So yes, this is very much about how you feel which is ultimately why you’re ignoring BB doing the same thing that you originally panned Brady for. If your feelings didn’t come into play, you’d be a bit more objective. So, as I’ve said, let’s just admit that your beliefs on this one are colored by the laundry and have not been logical at any one point during this back and forth. Then we can drop this charade.

You made me laugh with this. I'm LITERALLY coming from an objective perspective here. LITERALLY. Apparently, you haven't perused Boston-area media's pretty much unanimous conclusion that Brady is using surrogates (dad, Guerrero, etc.) to run interference for him ahead of next week's game and uncomplimentary passages from the forthcoming Wickersham book. Which makes sense, as Tom's personal aversion to media-centric confrontation/controversy is well documented. So if you can't see this as an at least plausible explanation for what's happening you LITERALLY need to recalibrate your incoming info sources. I mean this literally.

 

[IllegalContact]

You made me laugh with this. I'm LITERALLY coming from an objective perspective here. LITERALLY. Apparently, you haven't perused Boston-area media's pretty much unanimous conclusion that Brady is using surrogates (dad, Guerrero, etc.) to run interference for him ahead of next week's game and uncomplimentary passages from the forthcoming Wickersham book. Which makes sense, as Tom's personal aversion to media-centric confrontation/controversy is well documented. So if you can't see this as an at least plausible explanation for what's happening you LITERALLY need to recalibrate your incoming info sources. I mean this literally.

everyone he disagrees only feels things, but his points are etched in some form of factual granite......he's just as much of a poser as anyone else