Brady Sr. Says what I’ve been saying all along.

[RobertWeathers]

No. The cap is a consideration but when you are dealing with your best player who is also the GOAT, you make the cap to fit him.

I don't agree with that philosophy for any player

In other words, if you really wanted him then you make other adjustments to ensure you get Brady done. It's not like Brady was asking to be the highest paid QB like Rodgers. He was looking for approx. half of Mahomes value. He just wanted the years not $40 mil/year. So the cap is bogus IMO. You don't cite the cap when it comes to the most important position on the field and you have the Goat.

As i've said earlier, it was a confluence of issues with Tom. Not just about the money which Bill knew and didn't make a stronger push to keep him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Of course but this is HIS decision. He chose that option over a long term deal and that has been the case since 2017. It's fine that he doesn't want to do certain things with the cap or this or that. None of that actually matters to the point. He chose to let the player walk and was wrong. He was very wrong. It's like we traded Brady in 2009 cause it all looked bad and claimed we could never rebuild with him quickly. He made a huge mistake. Trying to explain why or what he was thinking has no bearing on the fact that he let Brady walk. It's his job to keep these players and keep them happy. People simply saying that's not 'his style' or whatever, fine! But that's not an excuse!

Bill is wrong as long as they keep losing and he gets fired. He isn't wrong because you think he is.

 

[amfootball]

Bill is wrong as long as they keep losing and he gets fired. He isn't wrong because you think he is.

Someone had said last year, I can't remember who but they said that last year might not have been rock bottom. In the last 7 games we are 2-5 with the only 2 wins being the Jets. That is what is magnifying Bill's decision.

 

[Tottie]

Bill is wrong as long as they keep losing and he gets fired. He isn't wrong because you think he is.

No. He's wrong because he let a franchise player still at the top of his game leave the building. That's why he was wrong. It's pretty simple. If TB is a top QB this year again? Or the next? Forget that he won the SB that has no bearing either. You don't let guys like that leave you figure it out.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Someone had said last year, I can't remember who but they said that last year might not have been rock bottom. In the last 7 games we are 2-5 with the only 2 wins being the Jets. That is what is magnifying Bill's decision.

Maybe. Time will tell. Could get worse before it gets better. Rock bottom could have been yesterday. Rock bottom could be next week or in December. Don't know.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No. He's wrong because he let a franchise player still at the top of his game leave the building. That's why he was wrong. It's pretty simple. If TB is a top QB this year again? Or the next? Forget that he won the SB that has no bearing either. You don't let guys like that leave you figure it out.

It wasn't that simple. You don't sign a player who doesn't want to play for the coach AND wants different things out of a football career and organization than what he experienced the prior 19 years.

People who think Tom would have stayed if they paid him more AND he would have been 100% happy are flat-out wrong.

 

[amfootball]

It wasn't that simple. You don't sign a player who doesn't want to play for the coach AND wants different things out of a football career and organization than what he experienced the prior 19 years.

People who think Tom would have stayed if they paid him more AND he would have been 100% happy are flat-out wrong.

Getting a long-term commitment was Brady's biggest ask it would be for any player of his stature and age. He may not have been 100 percent happy but he would have felt the team was committed to him and that would have went a long way as it had for the past 19 years.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Maybe. Time will tell. Could get worse before it gets better. Rock bottom could have been yesterday. Rock bottom could be next week or in December. Don't know.

 

[Tottie]

It wasn't that simple. You don't sign a player who doesn't want to play for the coach AND wants different things out of a football career and organization than what he experienced the prior 19 years.

People who think Tom would have stayed if they paid him more AND he would have been 100% happy are flat-out wrong.

Of course when you say it like that it helps your case but if he didn't want to stay, why is that? You really think he wanted to just go to ****ing Tampa Bay? You don't think that BB's years of contract war with Brady had anything to do it with it? It's not just about last year. BB let it get to that point. It's over but I wish you guys would stop dancing around this. It's very clear what happened and it happened over multiple years. Could Bill had saved it in free agency before Brady left? I believe so but he would of had to do what? Beg? Be nice? I have no idea. It doesn't matter. I don't believe for 1 second that Brady wanted to leave there until he was made to feel he had to. Money was not an issue, cap wasn't an issue that's a BS cop out. We've been through all this before. Brady wanted commitment, BB didn't want to for whatever reason. Brady is still playing like an All Pro QB 2 years later. No one else keeps their job doing something like that. Only the legend of BB can hold on, but for how long?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Getting a long-term commitment was Brady's biggest ask it would be for any player of his stature and age. He may not have been 100 percent happy but he would have felt the team was committed to him and that would have went a long way as it had for the past 19 years.

I don't think so.

 

[RobertWeathers]

View attachment 36046

 

[RobertWeathers]

Of course when you say it like that it helps your case but if he didn't want to stay, why is that? You really think he wanted to just go to ****ing Tampa Bay? You don't think that BB's years of contract war with Brady had anything to do it with it? It's not just about last year. BB let it get to that point. It's over but I wish you guys would stop dancing around this. It's very clear what happened and it happened over multiple years. Could Bill had saved it in free agency before Brady left? I believe so but he would of had to do what? Beg? Be nice? I have no idea. It doesn't matter. I don't believe for 1 second that Brady wanted to leave there until he was made to feel he had to. Money was not an issue, cap wasn't an issue that's a BS cop out. We've been through all this before. Brady wanted commitment, BB didn't want to for whatever reason. Brady is still playing like an All Pro QB 2 years later. No one else keeps their job doing something like that. Only the legend of BB can hold on, but for how long?

Too much to unpack here. I expect fans to say it's 100% Bill's fault for Tom leaving. Commitment doesn't not 100% translate to money.

Guerrero is right. Tom did evolve. He wanted to be treated differently. He wanted to be paid differently. He wanted to be coached differently. He wanted a SB caliber roster and not that dog **** offense in 2019. He didn't want to be part of a rebuild. He was miserable. He didn't show up for OTAs. Tom v Time passive-aggressive BS. Once Bill realized he couldn't fix all of those things he moved on and let Tom find a better place.

You want to blame Bill for not evolving and saying pretty please stay, fine.

Tom changed too and blaming BB for Tom's unhappiness here and for not adapting to Tom is ********.

 

[Tottie]

Too much to unpack here. I expect fans to say it's 100% Bill's fault for Tom leaving.

Guerrero is right. Tom did evolve. He wanted to be treated differently. He wanted to be paid differently. He wanted to be coached differently. He wanted a SB caliber roster and not that dog **** offense in 2019. He didn't want to be part of a rebuild. He was miserable. He didn't show up for OTAs. Tom v Time passive-aggressive BS. Once Bill realized he couldn't fix all of those things he moved on and let Tom find a better place.

You want to blame Bill for not evolving and saying pretty please stay, fine.

Tom changed too and blaming BB for Tom's unhappiness and for not adapting to Tom is ********.

Just to end this lets say everything you said is 100% correct. To be clear I don't agree, but lets say it is. You are right on all those fronts.

Are you good with the decision to not offer him a 2-3 year deal 2 years ago or a 4 year deal after his MVP season? I can see that BB's feelings or side of things is important to you. I've never seen a fan take the GM/Coaches feelings to heart when it comes to keeping MVP QBs on the roster but I'll roll with it. At what point do you say that you wish the GM had put his feelings aside and signed the QB or does that point never come? Will a few more losing seasons do it? Another Brady SB? You see saying Brady can't win here is a huge cop out. We've done it many times before and even if they don't win another Superbowl he should of finished here and I would bet anything we never miss the playoffs. So if what you said above is true and it is complicated and BB's feelings on the matter do matter, when does that stop? He's a GM not a fan.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Just to end this lets say everything you said is 100% correct. To be clear I don't agree, but lets say it is. You are right on all those fronts.

Are you good with the decision to not offer him a 2-3 year deal 2 years ago or a 4 year deal after his MVP season? I can see that BB's feelings or side of things is important to you. I've never seen a fan take the GM/Coaches feelings to heart when it comes to keeping MVP QBs on the roster but I'll roll with it. At what point do you say that you wish the GM had put his feelings aside and signed the QB or does that point never come? Will a few more losing seasons do it? Another Brady SB? You see saying Brady can't win here is a huge cop out. We've done it many times before and even if they don't win another Superbowl he should of finished here and I would bet anything we never miss the playoffs. So if what you said above is true and it is complicated and BB's feelings on the matter do matter, when does that stop? He's a GM not a fan.

Thats fine.

The 2020 team wasn't doing anything with Tom and if Tom was signed to an extension that would have guaranteed it.

I'm not arguing contract lengths because the crux of Tom leaving/BB moving on wasn't about money. Fans think Tom wanted big dollars here. I don't think he did.

The sticking point was Tom wanted to be treated differently. He wanted more freedoms. More of a voice. Look at his Jim Gray and Oprah interviews. The Tom v Time stuff. The "miserable" press conference. The skipping of OTAs. Tom was an unhappy dude here. Tom outgrew Bill's program. Period.

Whatever those specific things Tom wanted ran counter to key tenants in BB's program.

I do believe Bob wanted to pay Tom but after hearing Tom out and his requests he saw that the issue wasn't money thus why he sided with Bill.

I believe Bob felt Bill and Tom could no longer coexist and money wasn't fixing it so Bob chose Bill.

 

[Tottie]

Thats fine.

The 2020 team wasn't doing anything with Tom and if Tom was signed to an extension that would have guaranteed it.

I'm not arguing contract lengths because the crux of Tom leaving/BB moving on wasn't about money. Fans think Tom wanted big dollars here. I don't think he did.

The sticking point was Tom wanted to be treated differently. He wanted more freedoms. More of a voice. Whatever those specific things were ran counter to key tenants in BB's program.

I do believe Bob wanted to pay Tom but after hearing Tom out and his requests he saw that the issue wasn't money thus why he sided with Bill.

I believe Bob felt Bill and Tom could no longer coexist and money wasn't fixing it so Bob chose Bill.

Ok that's all pretty reasonable. I don't agree with all of it but what it comes down to is this: Are you good with how it ended up? Most GMs would of given Brady what he wants. I'm not in agreement with you on what that is if anything really and we won't know for sure unless they both say so. I believe it's a long term deal and that had been a request for years. I think there's enough evidence that we can agree on that one. Lets say he wanted his own room and trainer and anything else. Do you agree with BB's decision to not do it? Some people here are saying it wasn't his decision that it was Toms. Again that's a debate. Actions are louder than words and if it was you would you of done the same thing? It was ballsy no? He must of been very confident in his team or he must of thought Tom was completely done? To not work it out with your 6 time SB champ and let him finish his career here over ANY of the points you put above is crazy to me. So did he think Tom was done or was he unwilling to change whatever he had to to make it work? Or both?

 

[Lagaffe_07]

The 2020 team wasn't doing anything with Tom and if Tom was signed to an extension that would have guaranteed it.

We need to stop looking at the end in the 2020. It was already too late. The separation happened after SB 53 in the 2019 offseason. If you resign Brady in 2019, 2020 is not a problem because que can structure the contract however you want to give you relief In 2020. Signing Brady in 2019 would have help regarding 2020

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ok that's all pretty reasonable. I don't agree with all of it but what it comes down to is this: Are you good with how it ended up? Most GMs would of given Brady what he wants.

No! We are losing games. This was a divorce and no one wins. We are the kids in a divorce. I think when GMs start cow-towing to players and fans that erodes organizations and fractures teams. A slipperty slope.

I'm not in agreement with you on what that is if anything really and we won't know for sure unless they both say so. I believe it's a long term deal and that had been a request for years. I think there's enough evidence that we can agree on that one.

I agree. Tom wanted a long term deal and Bill wanted to go 1 year at a time. Age, Tom evolving etc

Lets say he wanted his own room and trainer and anything else. Do you agree with BB's decision to not do it? Some people here are saying it wasn't his decision that it was Toms. Again that's a debate. Actions are louder than words and if it was you would you of done the same thing?

I think Alex Guerrero is a piece of ****. Tom could see Alex all he wanted.

It was ballsy no? He must of been very confident in his team or he must of thought Tom was completely done? To not work it out with your 6 time SB champ and let him finish his career here over ANY of the points you put above is crazy to me. So did he think Tom was done or was he unwilling to change whatever he had to to make it work? Or both?

I think BB is the greatest talent evaluator ever. I have no doubt he felt Tom could still play in 2020. Like I said earlier Bill didn't see he or Tom changing. The End.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We need to stop looking at the end in the 2020. It was already too late. The separation happened after SB 53 in the 2019 offseason. If you resign Brady in 2019, 2020 is not a problem because que can structure the contract however you want to give you relief In 2020. Signing Brady in 2019 would have help regarding 2020

The end was 2018.

 

[Tottie]

No! We are losing games. This was a divorce and no one wins. We are the kids in a divorce. I think when GMs start cow-towing to players and fans that erodes organizations and fractures teams. A slipperty slope.

I agree. Tom wanted a long term deal and Bill wanted to go 1 year at a time. Age, Tom evolving etc



I think Alex Guerrero is a piece of ****. Tom could see Alex all he wanted.

I think BB is the greatest talent evaluator ever. I have no doubt he felt Tom could still play in 2020. Like I said earlier Bill didn't see he or Tom changing. The End.

And you stand by that? You accept BB doing that as a fan? That's the war only most people on your side aren't being honest like you are. This is exactly what happened. Most of us on the other side can't believe it was allowed to play out this way. Others on your side usually make **** up about cap room and Tom wanting to leave. At least you are honest. BB couldn't deal with what was needed to make it work, especially at the end. Lets go down with the ship then. I'm looking forward to watching.

 

[VectorPrime]

Saying “it’s not Bill’s fault that Brady wanted to go play on a team with actual talent” is not the defense you think it is.