Brady / Rodgers

[Wheelman]

How to be misled by stats.
A major reason why his stats are that good is intertwined with his notable lack of 4th QTR comebacks.
He is so pick averse that he allows games to be lost rather than stepping up and taking intelligent chances on throws that enable game winning drives. Those #s are meaningless when you look at his systematic lack of comebacks.

Don't tell Packers fans that. They'll just say the defense let Rodgers down. That's their current excuse why Rodgers only has one ring and Brady has five...

 

[patsinthesnow]

Randall Cunningham
Michael Vick
Steve Young

All are/were better QB talents than Aaron Rodgers. I'm sure I could name others, but that's an easy three.

Strongly disagree on Mike Vick.

Young/Cunningham debateable.

 

[ivanvamp]

No

Yes.

If you're going to get rid of the mental, that leaves the physical.

I didn't mention anything about the "mental". I spoke about THROWING ACCURACY, which is a skill. It's almost like you didn't actually read my post.

The person who made the claim combined the QB talents. He didn't go breaking them down via formula.

I also did. I acknowledged that Vick and Cunningham probably had stronger arms than Rodgers does, and were better athletes, and that's all well and good, but I said the number one skill for a QB is throwing accuracy, and Rodgers is light years ahead of those guys on that. And that huge edge makes him a better QB talent than those guys.

Vick
Cunningham
Young

All better QB talents than Rodgers.

False. Well, I guess you're welcome to your opinion. I don't begrudge you that.

Better athletes, yes. But then, so are Randle-El and Julian Edelman, both of whom have pretty good arms and were FAR superior athletes to Rodgers. According to your logic, they both were better QB talents than Rodgers.

And furthermore, according to your logic, these guys are all far better QB talents than Brady, who doesn't have the same arm strength as Rodgers and who is a far inferior athlete to boot.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

Come on. We all have eyes. Geez. Why are we even discussing this. "Lord of the rings ". Done, over and out.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

(Best Mr. Rogers voice)

You know what makes this post special? There will never be another post like this one. Just like there will never be another poster like you. Sometimes on here we see people troll or just get mad. But I look to the helpers. The people making this website a better place. I see this post and it reminds me how many helpers are out there.

Don't forget the changing of the tennis shoes!!

 

[RobertWeathers]

Some players see the field better than others.

For example, Chris Paul is a very good passer but he not Magic Johnson.

 

[Nehalem]

Randall Cunningham
Michael Vick
Steve Young

All are/were better QB talents than Aaron Rodgers. I'm sure I could name others, but that's an easy three.

You forgot JaMarcus Russell.

Russell is possibly the most physically talented quarterback prospect since John Elway. He's 6-foot-6, 260 pounds with an arm that makes Brett Favre look like Danny Wuerffel. Russell is also a good runner and his arm strength allows him to hit any open receiver while he is on the move.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2007 Quarterbacks Draft Preview

 

[Deus Irae]

Strongly disagree on Mike Vick.

Young/Cunningham debateable.

Michael Vick is the most physically gifted QB in NFL history. Everyone else is vying for second place.

Michael Vick is also the perfect example of why judging QBs solely on "QB talent" is foolish.

 

[Deus Irae]

You forgot JaMarcus Russell.


FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2007 Quarterbacks Draft Preview

I had a few others in mind, but I didn't want the discussion to bog down. Hell, people are actually questioning Michael Vick, and he's far and away the most physically gifted QB in NFL history.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes.



I didn't mention anything about the "mental". I spoke about THROWING ACCURACY, which is a skill. It's almost like you didn't actually read my post.



I also did. I acknowledged that Vick and Cunningham probably had stronger arms than Rodgers does, and were better athletes, and that's all well and good, but I said the number one skill for a QB is throwing accuracy, and Rodgers is light years ahead of those guys on that. And that huge edge makes him a better QB talent than those guys.



False. Well, I guess you're welcome to your opinion. I don't begrudge you that.

Better athletes, yes. But then, so are Randle-El and Julian Edelman, both of whom have pretty good arms and were FAR superior athletes to Rodgers. According to your logic, they both were better QB talents than Rodgers.

And furthermore, according to your logic, these guys are all far better QB talents than Brady, who doesn't have the same arm strength as Rodgers and who is a far inferior athlete to boot.

You got it all wrong, except for your last sentence. Yes, those guys are all far better QB talents than Brady, according the meaning of QB talent in this thread.

Sorry, but I didn't set the parameters: patsinthesnow did that:

2) The best QB talent of all time. When you factor in his arm strength, accuracy, & mobility only really Elway or Favre would match up.

QB talent being discussed as QB talent

When it comes to reading coverages pre-snap, reading coverages post snap, & pocket presence, he isn't Brady...or Manning...or Brees (for modern day comps). That doesn't even factor in his chickensh*t style of play when down big.

Talent being discussed as different from QB talent, in order to make a point separating Rodgers from others.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Michael Vick is the most physically gifted QB in NFL history. Everyone else is vying for second place.

Michael Vick is also the perfect example of why judging QBs solely on "QB talent" is foolish.

I included accuracy in my criteria. He had horrible accuracy.

 

[Guts]

Superbowl 49 and Superbowl 51 that's all anyone needs to know on who the better QB is.

 

[ivanvamp]

You got it all wrong, except for your last sentence. Yes, those guys are all far better QB talents than Brady, according the meaning of QB talent in this thread.

Sorry, but I didn't set the parameters: patsinthesnow did that:



QB talent being discussed as QB talent



Talent being discussed as different from QB talent, in order to make a point separating Rodgers from others.

Yes, we've been over this: arm strength, accuracy, and mobility. Of these three, accuracy is by FAR the most important skill for a QB. Like...it's not even close.

So no, Michael Vick, who was a very inaccurate passer, did not have more QB talent than Rodgers. He was more athletic and probably had a bigger arm, but Rodgers' overwhelming advantage in accuracy (one of the qualifications in this thread) dwarfs Vick's advantages in foot speed and arm strength.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think it's reasonable to discuss QB takent without including the mental aspect of the position.
Arm strength and athletic ability arguably are much less important than the mental aspect t of playing QB.
I suppose we could discuss who would win a skills competition but "playing QB" involves executing plays.

 

[Oswlek]

I look at Rogers vs Atlanta and his response to being down big and Bradys's response after being down big vs Atlanta.

Not really fair. GB was beat to **** and Atlanta could have put up 60 if they really cared to. There is also an enormous gulf between BB and McCarthy.

 

[Pats1989]

Rodgers is a great player. He has parts of his game we can criticize and so does Brady. Very different players. I don't feel the need to put down his game to elevate Brady. If I didn't have Brady i'd be excited to have him as my QB though i wish he was a better person though.

Better person? I'm assuming this has something to do with his family thing going on? This kind of lost me...

Talent wise? Yeah Rodgers wins all day everyday. Can scramble, make insane throws, run etc. Point being talented doesn't automatically = Best or Successful.

Brady still has the greatest football IQ I've ever seen. His poise in tough ( Last two SB's) situations is simply remarkable. TB usually doesn't make highlight reel throws like AR. Why? Because he doesn't have to.

Rodgers is 9-7 in the playoffs. Nearly .500 QB. He scored 22 points off five Seattle turnovers. Against the very same D Brady would later shred. He's never led his team to a playoff victory trailing by 10 or more. Not once. Brady has won three straight playoff games when he finds himself down 10 or more ( Ravens, Seattle, Dirty Birds) points.

Rodgers will always win the fantasy point & highlight reel debate. Brady will just...win.

 

[Pats1989]

Not really fair. GB was beat to **** and Atlanta could have put up 60 if they really cared to. There is also an enormous gulf between BB and McCarthy.

Yeah I doubt GB wins that game with a combo of prime Montana & Brady. That D was horrific.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes, we've been over this: arm strength, accuracy, and mobility. Of these three, accuracy is by FAR the most important skill for a QB. Like...it's not even close.

So no, Michael Vick, who was a very inaccurate passer, did not have more QB talent than Rodgers. He was more athletic and probably had a bigger arm, but Rodgers' overwhelming advantage in accuracy (one of the qualifications in this thread) dwarfs Vick's advantages in foot speed and arm strength.

Now you're weighting things in favor of your chosen player. Can't do that, sorry. It's cheating.

Look, I get it. It runs counter to your sensibilities to admit the obvious on this. It should. Rodgers is a better QB than Vick. You'd take him over Vick 100 times out of 100 if you were picking your team, and so would anyone who knew the game of football.

He just doesn't have better QB talent (per thread's definition). And that's why

I don't think it's reasonable to discuss QB takent without including the mental aspect of the position.
Arm strength and athletic ability arguably are much less important than the mental aspect t of playing QB.
I suppose we could discuss who would win a skills competition but "playing QB" involves executing plays.

is the right answer when discussing "QB talent", and it's why we put Brady above Rodgers.

 

[Deus Irae]

I included accuracy in my criteria. He had horrible accuracy.

Vick's accuracy was definitely an issue, no question. But he had two mental problems which, along with years of bad wide receivers, made his accuracy issue seem even worse than it was:

Lock on to Crumpler way too often
Over-reliance on his arm to force passes in.

Those are mental issues, not physical. Hell, the second best catch percentage season of Shawn Jefferson's career was his first year with Vick, before Jefferson's decline really kicked in. The only higher percentage season for Jefferson was his second of 4 with Brady & Co..

 

[ivanvamp]

Now you're weighting things in favor of your chosen player. Can't do that, sorry. It's cheating.

Look, I get it. It runs counter to your sensibilities to admit the obvious on this. It should. Rodgers is a better QB than Vick. You'd take him over Vick 100 times out of 100 if you were picking your team, and so would anyone who knew the game of football.

He just doesn't have better QB talent (per thread's definition). And that's why



is the right answer when discussing "QB talent", and it's why we put Brady above Rodgers.

I'm not weighting things in favor of my preferred guy. I have my preferred guy (in this context) because of how the three skills mentioned SHOULD BE WEIGHTED.

And not once have I mentioned the mental component - I've focused strictly on the physical skills, accuracy being by FAR the most important.

When one of the three skills is by far more important to play in QB than the other two (and accuracy IS that much more important), it's not only proper to weight them accordingly, it's virtually required, if you're actually going to have a serious discussion about this.

Yeah the guys who win the long drive context may have more raw power than actual pros on the PGA tour, but control and accuracy are FAR more important than raw power, and so you'd be a fool to argue that a golfer with more raw power has "more golf talent" than a guy who puts the ball where he wants to, even if it's a little shorter than the long drive guys. You'd weight those things accordingly, as you ought.