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Both Vikings and Bears Interested in Eliot Wolf for Open GM Position


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Based on what evidence? Your intuition? Gut feeling? Internal source in NE? Reporting?

And I'd ask the same thing of everyone else here pounding the Wolf drum: What evidence exists that he has brought unique value to the Patriots and that the team's front-office would struggle in his absence?

I mean that completely sincerely. If there is good, legitimate evidence that Wolf has injected new ideas and approaches to the Patriots front-office that otherwise would not exist, then I'll stand right next to you pounding the drum for the team to make every effort to retain him. The thing is, though, I don't think this evidence really exists to a layperson who doesn't work for the Patriots. I think everyone here advocating for Wolf are doing so based on their personal, subjective whims and instincts, which is essentially an opinion with little-to-no evidence. It might be right, but there is no evidence that it's right.

So again, I completely genuinely/sincerely ask the Wolf proponents to present the evidence that he's a uniquely talented general manager and that the team would struggle in his absence. And when I say evidence, I don't mean a single-year correlation with a (likely) better-than-average draft class; I mean legitimate evidence in the form of quotes from Patriots personnel, researched stories, etc, that details the work Wolf does with the team. Or, if you're well-connected to internal Patriots sources, share what those folks tell you.

My totally subjective, gut-feeling is that the Patriots front-office will be more than fine whether or not Eliot Wolf is working for them.
I've been asking similar questions but a lot of posters here can't explain themselves. Not trying to be mean but it's more than obvious. Like someone will post a link that offers no real insight or detail. Or simply repeat themselves over and over and over.

Very little insight or explanation here and again I'm being genuine here not trying to be rude.

When it comes to this past draft / this thread. Not one person offers any substance.

Same thing regarding Josh. Absolutely no insight or substance beyond 4-5 plays they think we're bad. Nothing at all.

Again I've asked myself on multiple occasions and it's crickets.
 
Right BB said he "thinks" Wolf made the Barmore trade which means someone in the draft room said they wanted Barmore (hint: his first name is Bill) because of where the pre-draft board ranked him which means Wolf (for the sake of argument) first referenced the player value & pick board and came up with proposal to swap 46 for 122 and 139. Bill OK'd it and he made the call.

So if that's the scenario, certainly solid work by Wolf but let's not exaggerate his accomplishments and impact.

As I said, I have no idea who contributes what, nor what they think, I only know that Belichick gave Wolf credit for that trade. And any fan who tells people that they know what is taking place in the Patriots facilities is full of sh.t. I do think that overall they did the best job in the draft that they have done in a while, so I would like to see them to stay together as long as possible.
 
I've been asking similar questions but a lot of posters here can't explain themselves. Not trying to be mean but it's more than obvious. Like someone will post a link that offers no real insight or detail. Or simply repeat themselves over and over and over.

Very little insight or explanation here and again I'm being genuine here not trying to be rude.

When it comes to this past draft / this thread. Not one person offers any substance.

Same thing regarding Josh. Absolutely no insight or substance beyond 4-5 plays they think we're bad. Nothing at all.

Again I've asked myself on multiple occasions and it's crickets.
It’s ok to be wrong if you use real facts and draw a poor conclusion.
It’s not ok to start from a conclusion then create a fact that doesn’t exist to support it.

Example: Eliot Wolf
Fact: he was brought in as a consultant, Belichick is defacto GM and Ziegler is director of personnel, getting that job instead of Wolf. Facts dictate a conclusion that Wolf isn’t responsible for the draft. Its possible, though unlikely and not supported by any facts, that Wolf gave suggestions that BB liked and impacted the draft a lot.

conclusion: I hate anyone from John Carroll university so Eliot Wolf has to get credit for that draft that I like. Made up fact: Kraft says we didn’t draft well and that means he told belichick to shut up and let the consultant run the show.
 
As I said, I have no idea who contributes what, nor what they think, I only know that Belichick gave Wolf credit for that trade. And any fan who tells people that they know what is taking place in the Patriots facilities is full of sh.t. I do think that overall they did the best job in the draft that they have done in a while, so I would like to see them to stay together as long as possible.
He did not give him credit for that trade. He said he thinks he coordinated it, which means he made phone calls, like a secretary would
What changed was the process. It became more collaborative instead of Bill doing what he wanted despite the advice of others. This was discussed this offseason.
who told you this, or were you there?
 
As I said, I have no idea who contributes what, nor what they think, I only know that Belichick gave Wolf credit for that trade. And any fan who tells people that they know what is taking place in the Patriots facilities is full of sh.t. I do think that overall they did the best job in the draft that they have done in a while, so I would like to see them to stay together as long as possible.
Can't hurt if he stays. It'll be Year 3 in the program and long as he learning and not being disruptive i'm ok if he stays.
 
I am beyond lost trying to follow the logic here. How does this make sense?

1 - Ziegler sucks because he was under Caserio, who sucked
2 - Now Wolf is under Ziegler, but Wolf is somehow amazing

If Ziegler sucked because the guy above him sucked then surely Wolf must suck. If Wolf doesn't suck despite the guy above him sucking then that invalidates the reasoning for Ziegler sucking in the first place.

We've also gone round-robin for pages and pages of this thread and similar threads, and I have yet to see any evidence actually pointing to Wolf doing anything you can specifically attribute to him at all besides "coordinating" one trade.
 
I am beyond lost trying to follow the logic here. How does this make sense?

1 - Ziegler sucks because he was under Caserio, who sucked
2 - Now Wolf is under Ziegler, but Wolf is somehow amazing

If Ziegler sucked because the guy above him sucked then surely Wolf must suck. If Wolf doesn't suck despite the guy above him sucking then that invalidates the reasoning for Ziegler sucking in the first place.
Also Ziegler sucks because Belichick replaced Caserio with him instead of Wolf and Belichick is an idiot.

But really Zeigler sucks because he played college ball with the devil aka Josh McDaniels.
 
I've been asking similar questions but a lot of posters here can't explain themselves. Not trying to be mean but it's more than obvious. Like someone will post a link that offers no real insight or detail. Or simply repeat themselves over and over and over.

Very little insight or explanation here and again I'm being genuine here not trying to be rude.

When it comes to this past draft / this thread. Not one person offers any substance.

Same thing regarding Josh. Absolutely no insight or substance beyond 4-5 plays they think we're bad. Nothing at all.

Again I've asked myself on multiple occasions and it's crickets.
I would love to see the following break down:

List all of the OC who have had more success than McD has had in New England.
When you can’t, and say it was only because of Brady, list all of the OC who have had a more productive offense with a rookie QB than the 2021 Patriots.

Don’t hold your breath waiting for responses.
 
I am beyond lost trying to follow the logic here. How does this make sense?

1 - Ziegler sucks because he was under Caserio, who sucked
2 - Now Wolf is under Ziegler, but Wolf is somehow amazing

If Ziegler sucked because the guy above him sucked then surely Wolf must suck. If Wolf doesn't suck despite the guy above him sucking then that invalidates the reasoning for Ziegler sucking in the first place.

We've also gone round-robin for pages and pages of this thread and similar threads, and I have yet to see any evidence actually pointing to Wolf doing anything you can specifically attribute to him at all besides "coordinating" one trade.

That’s because it isn’t logic, it’s make believe. People pretending to know who is saying what, and who is doing what inside the Patriots organization are simply making sh.t up to try and support lame assed agendas that they have. Following the facts is much easier. In other words it is safe to say that Belichick zooming draft picks with the help of his dog led to a bad draft, whereas having everyone working together and Belichick listening to the input and acting upon led to one of their best draft’s in a long time. And while we have no idea who pushed for and against certain free agents overall they did a good job in free agency, so it’s safe to say that keeping this staff together for another year is a good idea. The rest of it is just people making like they know things they have no way of knowing.
 
That’s because it isn’t logic, it’s make believe. People pretending to know who is saying what, and who is doing what inside the Patriots organization are simply making sh.t up to try and support lame assed agendas that they have. Following the facts is much easier. In other words it is safe to say that Belichick zooming draft picks with the help of his dog led to a bad draft, whereas having everyone working together and Belichick listening to the input and acting upon led to one of their best draft’s in a long time. And while we have no idea who pushed for and against certain free agents overall they did a good job in free agency, so it’s safe to say that keeping this staff together for another year is a good idea. The rest of it is just people making like they know things they have no way of knowing.
Dude he was on zoom with his dog because of COVID and every team operated remotely.
There was just as much discussion, debate and working together as in any other draft.
Keeping the staff together is always good but when a guy is getting offered a bigger job elsewhere, what do you want to be done?
 
is the answer, we lay the blame on those responsible for over a half decade of really bad drafting?
The people who drafted are the people who ran the most successful franchise in NFL history. Who gives a shlt if people like your draft picks if you win more than anyone else. Go ahead and blame them, then turn around and congratulate them gut being the best ever at what they do.
Are you really more concerned about draft analysis than winning football games and championships?
who do you think drafted well? Who won more?
 
No. Do the analysis. Its not as bad as some on this board say it is

You want to name 12 crappy bench players again and pretend the 2013-2019 drafts didn't completely suck? Multiple national outlets analyzed it and put the Patriots as one of the worst during this period. Kraft himself was quoted on this, hence the changed process involving Wolf and Groh. Happy to show the sources for those who bury their head in the sand.


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The people who drafted are the people who ran the most successful franchise in NFL history. Who gives a shlt if people like your draft picks if you win more than anyone else. Go ahead and blame them, then turn around and congratulate them gut being the best ever at what they do.
Are you really more concerned about draft analysis than winning football games and championships?
who do you think drafted well? Who won more?

Don't conflate the issues. The dearth of talent acquisition for years led to the Pats trying to replenish the cupboard via a record FA splurge. And it's caught up to the team for the last 3 seasons since 2018.
 
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"On Wednesday, Pats owner Robert Kraft addressed the team’s recent stretch of poor drafting.

“I don’t feel we’ve done the greatest job in the last few years. I hope and really believe I’ve seen a different approach this year,” Kraft said, “and in the end, it all comes out with what happens on the field.”

Entering last season, the Patriots’ drafts from 2016-2019 ranked sixth-worst in the NFL by career Approximate Value (AV), a metric that represents a player’s total career impact, while weighing his single-season peak performance (i.e. his numbers from a Pro Bowl year) against his long-term statistical production. After a decade-plus of nailing their high picks, who earned high AV marks, the Pats whiffed with their first selections in 2016 (Cyrus Jones), 2017 (Derek Rivers) and 2019 (N’Keal Harry), while receiving an underwhelming return from 2018 first-rounder Sony Michel.

Failing to hit on these picks shrink the Patriots’ margin for error when roster-building elsewhere because they wasted their most economic opportunities for player acquisition. It also cost the front office potential trade assets and sent the team into free agency without much of a backup plan aside from the signing spree it recently executed.

“If you want to have a good, consistent, winning football team, you can’t do it in free agency. You have to do it through the draft,”

Patriots have changed their draft approach after recent misses, says owner Robert Kraft


you can tell the forum has organizational stooges here when they swarm with spin
 
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