Both Vikings and Bears Interested in Eliot Wolf for Open GM Position

[RobertWeathers]

Game. Set. Match.

No.

What he said was marketing-speak and his comments lack context and reality.

Plus he is messaging fans that we will build through the draft. "I am not Steinbrenner."

All owners want to build through the draft. No ****.

Less than 20% of drafted players remain with their team at the conclusion of their rookie deal. Reason is they fizzle out or hit FA.

Prior to 2021 their top picks were...

2020- 2/37
2019- 1/31
2018- 1/23 and 1/31
2017- 3/83, 3/85
2016- 2/60

All of those draft pick slots have a less than 30% chance of becoming an NFL starter. It's in the 20s and teens for 2rd and 3rd rd.

Thats what happens when you go to the Super Bowl every year with loaded rosters you want to keep loaded because you have a GOAT QB on a team-friendly deal. You always pick last.

Drafting Mac at 15 (or higher) has a 50% chance.

Bob has this info. He is just spinning it to keep Bill and the NFL honest.

 

[venecol]

The quotes from Kraft mention a need to draft better, and reference changes to the draft process. But that can mean a LOT of things:

- Changes to who makes the selections (unlikely, as that's still going to be BB in the end)
- Changes to who has input into the selections
- Changes to the parameters used to rank prospects
- Changes to valuations placed on different draft positions (and thus changing trade up/down/stay put strategies)
- Changes to values placed on picks themselves as they relate to trading for veterans.

None of the quotes specifically indicate how the different roles of front office personnel were subsequently altered (if at all). We know that Caserio left, and Ziegler took his place. We have no idea if his responsibilities mirrored Caserio's old ones or were fundamentally changed. Really, outside of, "We need to do better in the draft", we know nothing. So for some to try to automatically assume that the only difference (and thus the most important change to the draft process) was the addition of Wolf, is over simplistic correlation at best.

The 2021 draft was conducted differently than in the past. They brought in Wolf. It was more of a collaborative effort instead of Bill having veto power. Kraft initiated these efforts, tired of the results of the recent poor drafts. There was also a marked change in FAcy. Again, Kraft spoke about this. Kraft wants to win and wasn't going to sit idly by while things continued the same, but this time w/o the GOAT. You don't need to be a genius to read all of Krafts comments during the offseason to realize this.

You can believe what you want, but it's clear things have changed in the FO.

 

[Ring 6]

N'Keal Harry

One draft choice will make the most successful franchise in the history of the NFL ask for help in figuring out what type of players fit their system? Now under the extraordinary assumption that this could be correct why did they promote from within to replace Caserio and hire the outsider as a consultant rather than being in charge?

 

[Sicilian]

The 2021 draft was conducted differently than in the past. They brought in Wolf. It was more of a collaborative effort instead of Bill having veto power. Kraft initiated these efforts, tired of the results of the recent poor drafts. There was also a marked change in FAcy. Again, Kraft spoke about this. Kraft wants to win and wasn't going to sit idly by while things continued the same, but this time w/o the GOAT. You don't need to be a genius to read all of Krafts comments during the offseason to realize this.

You can believe what you want, but it's clear things have changed in the FO.

Sure, but "have things changed" isn't what the core conflict in this thread is about. It's being implied that Wolf is the catalyst, and that by letting him go you're right back to where you were in recent years. But we have NO idea exactly WHAT changed in the front office as far as overall responsibility distribution (including Wolf's exact role) and process changes (which may have had some input from Wolf, but now exist independent from him). We changed personnel directors, so there's no doubt the FO changed in some capacity. But assuming we know how is taking one step up a fifty story staircase and then trying to leap the rest of the way to the top.

 

[Ring 6]

The 2021 draft was conducted differently than in the past. They brought in Wolf. It was more of a collaborative effort instead of Bill having veto power. Kraft initiated these efforts, tired of the results of the recent poor drafts. There was also a marked change in FAcy. Again, Kraft spoke about this. Kraft wants to win and wasn't going to sit idly by while things continued the same, but this time w/o the GOAT. You don't need to be a genius to read all of Krafts comments during the offseason to realize this.

You can believe what you want, but it's clear things have changed in the FO.

You are literally making this up. There is nothing that says it was a collaborative and belichick didn’t make the decisions other than your make believe thoughts. wolf is a consultant. That’s it. Ziegler ran the draft under belichicks direction,

The change in free agency was because they had more cap money than ever. They always spend it all. This time they had more to spend, so really no change at all.

 

[Ring 6]

Sure, but "have things changed" isn't what the core conflict in this thread is about. It's being implied that Wolf is the catalyst, and that by letting him go you're right back to where you were in recent years. But we have NO idea exactly WHAT changed in the front office as far as overall responsibility distribution (including Wolf's exact role) and process changes (which may have had some input from Wolf, but now exist independent from him). We changed personnel directors, so there's no doubt the FO changed in some capacity. But assuming we know how is taking one step up a fifty story staircase and then trying to leap the rest of the way to the top.

What changed is that the team
a) was in a different place, and had different needs, roster and level of talent.
b) was picking higher than ever before

Otherwise, there was nothing different about this draft, it was the same way they have operated for years.

 

[Sicilian]

What changed is that the team
a) was in a different place, and had different needs, roster and level of talent.
b) was picking higher than ever before

Otherwise, there was nothing different about this draft, it was the same way they have operated for years.

I'm not ready to accept this either, for no other reason than the Patriots are an adaptable organization. For all the false reputation he gets about being stubborn, BB has always been described by the people who work with him as very open to idea and accepts challenging opinions. They may not have changed a damn thing this year in the end, but they are ALWAYS tweaking their operations, both on and off the field, because they recognize that the game and league change year to year. You either flow with it or get left behind.

 

[venecol]

One draft choice will make the most successful franchise in the history of the NFL ask for help in figuring out what type of players fit their system? Now under the extraordinary assumption that this could be correct why did they promote from within to replace Caserio and hire the outsider as a consultant rather than being in charge?

Because Wolf wasn't interested in being one of Bill's lackeys. He wants to make his own mark. He'll have an opportunity this year if he gets a GM job.

 

[Sicilian]

Because Wolf wasn't interested in being one of Bill's lackeys. He wants to make his own mark. He'll have an opportunity this year if he gets a GM job.

He didn't want to be Bill's lackey, so he accepted a job as the lackey for one of Bill's lackeys?

 

[venecol]

Sure, but "have things changed" isn't what the core conflict in this thread is about. It's being implied that Wolf is the catalyst, and that by letting him go you're right back to where you were in recent years. But we have NO idea exactly WHAT changed in the front office as far as overall responsibility distribution (including Wolf's exact role) and process changes (which may have had some input from Wolf, but now exist independent from him). We changed personnel directors, so there's no doubt the FO changed in some capacity. But assuming we know how is taking one step up a fifty story staircase and then trying to leap the rest of the way to the top.

What changed was the process. It became more collaborative instead of Bill doing what he wanted despite the advice of others. This was discussed this offseason.

 

[venecol]

He didn't want to be Bill's lackey, so he accepted a job as the lackey for one of Bill's lackeys?

As a consultant.

 

[Sicilian]

What changed was the process. It became more collaborative instead of Bill doing what he wanted despite the advice of others. This was discussed this offseason.

Again then, if what changed was the process (and I don't disagree with that by the way), then why are some assuming the process was primarily the brain child of Wolf, when BB and Ziegler had more authority within the organization? It seems far more likely to me that the people in charge of this new and improved process were the people in charge of the organization itself, and not more likely that a consultant somehow crafted this perfect system without their knowledge.

 

[venecol]

FAcy was different and not because they spent all the money they had as always.

1. They signed a bunch of skill guys out of the gate, not waiting until later as before looking for deals. Other teams waited several days before signing skill players looking for deals because of the glut and cap situation. Not the Pats.
2. They handed out guaranteed $$ like never before in Pats history. In fact, an NFL record in guaranteed $$.

Again, this was discussed in the offseason by ex Pats FO people and Kraft himself. Whatever, dudes. Believe whatever you want. Nothing changed. Bill walks on water. I'm out.

 

[Sicilian]

Nothing changed. Bill walks on water.

Very nice strawman to walk out on. I'm happy to end this conversation as well.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Everybody thinks the personnel decisions changed just because BB went around the room and asked if everyone was OK with the Mac Jones pick. That's not collaboration. That's validation and if anyone said no they'd be fired for not surfacing concerns in pre-draft meetings.

 

[Ivan]

Who here would want Ziegler over Wolf though?

It’s impossible to know unless you actually work within the organization with them, or you are in the profession and know both of them well. Other than a few tidbits, like Wolf making the Barmore trade, we have no idea who is saying or doing what, so we have no way to actually judge them. And any fan who claims to have this knowledge is just a loud mouth talking out of their @ss.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It’s impossible to know unless you actually work within the organization with them, or you are in the profession and know both of them well. Other than a few tidbits, like Wolf making the Barmore trade, we have no idea who is saying or doing what, so we have no way to actually judge them. And any fan who claims to have this knowledge is just a loud mouth talking out of their @ss.

Right BB said he "thinks" Wolf made the Barmore trade which means someone in the draft room said they wanted Barmore (hint: his first name is Bill) because of where the pre-draft board ranked him which means Wolf (for the sake of argument) first referenced the player value & pick board and came up with proposal to swap 46 for 122 and 139. Bill OK'd it and he made the call.

So if that's the scenario, certainly solid work by Wolf but let's not exaggerate his accomplishments and impact.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Right BB said he "thinks" Wolf made the Barmore trade which means someone in the draft room said they wanted Barmore (hint: his first name is Bill) because of where the pre-draft board ranked him which means Wolf (for the sake of argument) first referenced the player value & pick board and came up with proposal to swap 46 for 122 and 139. Bill OK'd it and he made the call.

So if that's the scenario, certainly solid work by Wolf but let's not exaggerate his accomplishments and impact.

BB used a broader word than that...he said he thinks Wolf "coordinated" the trade. What this likely means is that Wolf is responsible for calling another team or receiving a call from another team regarding a potential trade, very similar to what Caserio did here. Wolf then goes to BB and asks him for his permission to complete the deal, to counter, or to say no. Wolf then calls the other team and then notifies the league for final approval if the teams agree. That's all BB is talking about when he uses the word "coordinate." It doesn't mean that Wolf suddenly had a genius idea and called the Bears on his own volition to make the trade on his own.

 

[Ring 6]

Because Wolf wasn't interested in being one of Bill's lackeys. He wants to make his own mark. He'll have an opportunity this year if he gets a GM job.

So, he wanted to come and work for belichick but didn’t want to work for belichick because he would be a lackey, and that leads you to the conclusion belichick turned over all decisions to him. Brilliant analysis.

 

[RobertWeathers]

BB used a broader word than that...he said he thinks Wolf "coordinated" the trade. What this likely means is that Wolf is responsible for calling another team or receiving a call from another team regarding a potential trade, very similar to what Caserio did here. Wolf then goes to BB and asks him for his permission to complete the deal, to counter, or to say no. Wolf then calls the other team and then notifies the league for final approval if the teams agree. That's all BB is talking about when he uses the word "coordinate." It doesn't mean that Wolf suddenly had a genius idea and called the Bears on his own volition to make the trade on his own.

Yep that's also how it works.