Belichick vs. Brady duel: the X and O's.

[Pats1971]

They did it when they had the star players to execute it. When they didn't Brady hung 40+ on those "geniuses" who had "figured him out." There is no free ride where you can beat Brady with scrubs using ~coaching magic ~

Maybe calling the Pats D scrubs is unfair, but they sure as **** aren't the 2015 Broncos or even 2007 Giants up front.

Yeah everyone figured him out. Its funny if Brady loses a game 10 years ago, it meant they figured him out. As you said there is no magic, you have to out execute the other team. Its that simple. There is no special way. He has played the most successful career of any player in NFL history. He is not figured out. lol I mean Brady just played spags not long ago, lets go ask him if his figured Brady out thing worked.

 

[gitgronked82]

This is exactly right. Play like the Giants beat the Bills. Run the ball a TON. Kill the clock as much as possible. Pound and ground. 2 tight ends next to tackles all game long. And on defense, purposely play nickel or dime all game, dare and bait the Bucs to run it and also help kill clock.

But who are we kidding. We have a dummy at oc, this offense is going to go Spread Shotgun 5-wide and Mac will have 10 QB hits before halftime. I would bet money on this being the case, that's how predictable this oc is.

Josh seems to be in a really tough spot with this fanbase right now where half of it criticizes him for running it every play and half criticized him for throwing it every play…

Rex Ryan, Spags, and others have shown us that it's enough to just get pressure on Brady, especially up the middle. They did it without exotic blitz packages or relying too much on decoying coverages.

Yes, we should simply decide to generate interior pressure without relying on blitzes. To be honest, I’m surprised other teams decide NOT to do this.

 

[Pats1971]

Josh seems to be in a really tough spot with this fanbase right now where half of it criticizes him for running it every play and half criticized him for throwing it every play…


Yes, we should simply decide to generate interior pressure without relying on blitzes. To be honest, I’m surprised other teams decide NOT to do this.

Yeah all other teams are just stupid and dont try and pressure QB's. Its amazing the pats have the inside track here and decided to start next week.

 

[gitgronked82]

Great breakdown I'm curious how would you defend Gronk with that in place? Looks like Gronk is playing to close to his 2017 version right now

I don’t think Gronk is at that level, personally.
But these are two-high coverages. You’ll have safeties over the top in the these that can take away his vertical routes. Then you have Phillips on him underneath, most likely. Against two high, the PA seam to gronk could still be there.
Personally, I don’t think it’s smart to worry about constantly doubling gronk like it’s 2014. He looks quite good, but I’d rather devote resources to evans, Godwin, AB

 

[Guts]

I don’t think Gronk is at that level, personally.
But these are two-high coverages. You’ll have safeties over the top in the these that can take away his vertical routes. Then you have Phillips on him underneath, most likely. Against two high, the PA seam to gronk could still be there.
Personally, I don’t think it’s smart to worry about constantly doubling gronk like it’s 2014. He looks quite good, but I’d rather devote resources to evans, Godwin, AB

Just gott hope the pressure gets there then or else it's going to be a long day

 

[gitgronked82]

Yeah all other teams are just stupid and dont try and pressure QB's. Its amazing the pats have the inside track here and decided to start next week.

Glad we solved the problem here on this forum.

 

[PScottman]

Who are the dominant dl?

It appears that you think I inferred the Patriots defense HAS those necessary components. I did not.

 

[Nunchucks]

Its simple really, get pressure with 4, run man/zone combos , hit the receivers at the line and don't give him a good pre-snap read.

This defense is not capable of doing that. I am honestly unsure what the defense is capable of doing - maybe mostly playing undisciplined and mistake filled football?

 

[sean10mm]

I fairness I am totally sure Belichick can scheme individual plays that might confuse Brady. The problem is to beat Brady with scheme alone you have to do that for an entire game, which usually only works on rookies and fringe starter types, which Brady uh is not.

Simple concepts like "hit passer man, he no like hit" work when your front 7 can simply out talent the OL in front of Brady.

We have seen 0 evidence of this in 2021.

Honestly the defense has struggled with fundamentals, going exotic probably makes them just play worse. I would focus more on people knowing their role and actually doing it, and if they get out-talented in Week 4 by an out of conference team then so be it.

 

[PP2]

You can only do so much with bad players. It does not matter what you do as a coach if players do not execute, its going to look like crap.

Who are you calling "bad players"?

 

[PP2]

They did it when they had the star players to execute it. When they didn't Brady hung 40+ on those "geniuses" who had "figured him out." There is no free ride where you can beat Brady with scrubs using ~coaching magic ~

Maybe calling the Pats D scrubs is unfair, but they sure as **** aren't the 2015 Broncos or even 2007 Giants up front. Who is this team's Strahan or Von Miller?

I think what we have are a little more than just scrubs. Right now the DL is the most talented unit and I think that's where we can have the most impact. Our back end, the way it is now- Brady is just going to pick it apart if he has a clean pocket to work with.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I think what we have are a little more than just scrubs. Right now the DL is the most talented unit and I think that's where we can have the most impact. Our back end, the way it is now- Brady is just going to pick it apart if he has a clean pocket to work with.

This is interesting. I haven't been impressed with the DLine. Lawrence Guy is ok but old. Godchaux on key red zone or 3rd and short conversions gets blown off the line of scrimmage on a regular basis. Barmore can pass rush but isn't a run defender.

.

 

[Kontradiction]

Not much of a X's and O's guru - is there a way to "move" a pocket without very skilled rushers? A design that isn't necessarily focused on collapsing the pocket or sacking, but merely moving it to throw off some fundamentals, with the hope of just forcing a throwing form reset?

Not sure if what I'm saying makes sense, but almost how we'd treat mobile QB's a few years back - don't rush them, set the edge, keep them in the pocket, don't let them make plays/throws with their scrambles? Except, in this form, we're looking to have a less-than-negligible displacement of the pocket that causes Tom to have to reset?

As far as offense goes, I really have no idea. I'd love to see the two TE's (as would everyone else) have some production. And pass protection. God, please, I really really don't want Suh to hit Mac.

Stunts, twists, and by disguising who is coming and who is dropping. Let’s say, for example, we’re planning on employing your standard Cover-2. High is the Mike and we have something of a NASCAR package up front daring them to run with Wise and Anderson as the DTs. If they pass against that, High can shoot the A-gap as a rusher while Wise drops into the middle seam in zone coverage. Brady has seen that before. He’s seen everything. But if it’s a PA fake, it could force a quick throw into a zone he thought was open, but isn’t.

 

[sean10mm]

Stunts, twists, and by disguising who is coming and who is dropping. Let’s say, for example, we’re planning on employing your standard Cover-2. High is the Mike and we have something of a NASCAR package up front daring them to run with Wise and Anderson as the DTs. If they pass against that, High can shoot the A-gap as a rusher while Wise drops into the middle seam in zone coverage. Brady has seen that before. He’s seen everything. But if it’s a PA fake, it could force a quick throw into a zone he thought was open, but isn’t.

This is a good idea in principle, but the problem is this is a team that as of week 3 can't execute the fundamentals without blundering in every phase of the game. Asking them to execute complex schemes when they can't execute the basics is a recipe for getting run out of the building.

I expect them to grow into a team that can do that, but they are behind the development curve right now and looked as sloppy in week 3 as they did in week 1. They need to play fundamental football before they try to get cute.

 

[Uptown]

The ONLY way..

 

[PP2]

I fairness I am totally sure Belichick can scheme individual plays that might confuse Brady. The problem is to beat Brady with scheme alone you have to do that for an entire game, which usually only works on rookies and fringe starter types, which Brady uh is not.

Simple concepts like "hit passer man, he no like hit" work when your front 7 can simply out talent the OL in front of Brady.

We have seen 0 evidence of this in 2021.

Honestly the defense has struggled with fundamentals, going exotic probably makes them just play worse. I would focus more on people knowing their role and actually doing it, and if they get out-talented in Week 4 by an out of conference team then so be it.

I really doubt that BB is going to have the entire D play exotic. The back end will be in a standard package and coverage, because you're not going to fool Brady back there, whatsoever, you'd just end up confusing your DBs.

All the exotic stuff if any, is going to come back from the linebackers, our LBs have the experience and the football IQ to pull this off. What I would like to see is a simple rush that merely ties up the OL and let the linebackers make the plays, which is a staple of a BB defense anyway. If the defense is able to regularly force third and longs, that would be where BB will pull out the exotic stuff. It'd be nice to see a return to the amoeba defense.

How Patriots' Amoeba Defense Stymied Kirk Cousins In Win Over Vikings - NESN.com

FOXBORO, Mass. — On the Minnesota Vikings’ first third down Sunday evening, Kirk Cousins gazed across the line of scrimmage and saw chaos. His opponent, the New England Patriots, had trotted out a defensive look it hadn’t shown in any of its first 11 games. Defensive end Trey Flowers was the...

nesn.com

 

[Pats1971]

Who are you calling "bad players"?

Players that are bad?

 

[PP2]

Players that are bad?

Name them.

 

[obgod3]

Even if BB can scheme up some things to confuse Brady (I dont really think he can), BB’s guys have to play a mistake free and penalty free game, something they have not done yet…..yikes.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Bill needs to put together a game plan like he did to derail the 1999 Pats. Remember that game? Nobody saw that coming.

I remember.

good memory but 44 year old brady takes a dump on any version of maniac gun slinger Bledsoe who loved to chuck it up to the moon