Belichick still greatest of all time coach?

[amfootball]

It absolutely does matter but he's still up there and probably still #1 regardless of if he loses every game until he retires. At first people will have hot takes but as he hits the HOF people will look at the body of work. Too many championships to discount. Too many good game plans.

Sure. He is not a bum. LOL But the gap between him and the other great coaches is not really that big anymore.

 

[Tottie]

Sure. He is not a bum. LOL But the gap between him and the other great coaches is not really that big anymore.

The gap between great coaches is never really big imo. There are great coaches that are going to be known as bums because it just never worked out for them. How do you place value on coaching? I mean it's almost impossible. Clearly there's massive disagreement even in this forum. One thing is for sure from my point of view: BB isn't some messiah wizard coach. He had the luxury of the best QB in history of this league and he didn't disappoint in taking advantage.

 

[Pape]

Gibbs was as underrated a great coach as one gets. If that makes sense

fwiw, two out of the three years gibbs won the super bowl, the league went thru labor stoppages... 82 was a 9 game season, 87 was the scab year...

 

[amfootball]

The gap between great coaches is never really big imo. There are great coaches that are going to be known as bums because it just never worked out for them. How do you place value on coaching? I mean it's almost impossible. Clearly there's massive disagreement even in this forum. One thing is for sure from my point of view: BB isn't some messiah wizard coach. He had the luxury of the best QB in history of this league and he didn't disappoint in taking advantage.

Yep. Agree completely.

 

[sb1]

The gap between great coaches is never really big imo. There are great coaches that are going to be known as bums because it just never worked out for them. How do you place value on coaching? I mean it's almost impossible. Clearly there's massive disaoxsgreement even in this forum. One thing is for sure from my point of view: BB isn't some messiah wizard coach. He had the luxury of the best QB in history of this league and he didn't disappoint in taking advantage.

Great coaches don't win games by themselves but they maximize what they have, whether it's the GOAT QB and a great roster - or a bad team with a bad QB like the Pats had last season. I'd say Bill checks off the boxes on both extremes.

GOAT coach or not...I'm glad he's our coach right now. I don't see any good reason to compound the mistake of letting Brady leave with an equally awful one of firing Bill at this point in time.

 

[203Pat]

I think so far the team has looked sloppy and to be honest poorly coached. I don't know if the offensive line doesn't know their assignments or if they just have guys who flat out aren't good but either way that needs to be fixed ASAP. Sometimes I also think Bill likes to get too cute and have too many packages with too many guys coming on and off the field. Yesterday for example while Mark Shelreth was babbling away about god knows what Taysom Hill was putting the final nail in the coffin and we only had 10 guys on the field.

 

[sb1]

I think so far the team has looked sloppy and to be honest poorly coached. I don't know if the offensive line doesn't know their assignments or if they just have guys who flat out aren't good but either way that needs to be fixed ASAP. Sometimes I also think Bill likes to get too cute and have too many packages with too many guys coming on and off the field. Yesterday for example while Mark Shelreth was babbling away about god knows what Taysom Hill was putting the final nail in the coffin and we only had 10 guys on the field.

Yep. Mistakes that other bad teams through the years typically made against us and that's why they lose to us. Now we're making the mistakes.

 

[stephens44]

I wonder if he retires in a year or two without having a good run or even making the playoffs, does that hurt his case for goat? Ironic that if he retired when brady left he would probably be considered better.

He's still the GOAT, even without being dominant this year. Rebuilding is tough, and not just without an established franchise QB. Bill's defense doesn't seem to work without a superstar corner wearing #24 either.... Law, Revis, Gilmore acount for all 6 SBs? Amazing how much different his defenses look when a #24 is out there.

 

[everlong]

BB the coach is as good as there has ever been. BB the GM not so much. He's still better than average but he's also had some epic hiccups that have cost this team. 06 sticking to his runs with Branch probably cost them a title. Trading away Vrabel and Seymour the same time made the 09 insurrection happen. He's had a couple of long droughts in the draft. Letting Babe Ruth leave for Tampa. All the receivers he's drafted and they've hit on Branch, Edelman and I'll give him credit for Malcolm Mitchell. There's a flipside to all of this with the Dillon and Moss trades, his epic run of UDFAs, etc. But it's been a really mixed bag.

The problem is for all his lip service that players win football games Bill believes it's the system. Everybody is a cog. We've all heard the leaks saying they felt like they could have won a lot of titles with any top 15 QB. Ummm, ya, no. If that was the case you would be able to replace a Bruschi with a Gary Guyton or a Seymour with a Jermaine Cunningham.

I like Mac Jones. I think he's going to be a solid QB. However you don't just replace a Tom Brady. He's beyond a generational talent. He's a once in the 100 years of the league talent.

 

[Boston Boxer]

I wonder if he retires in a year or two without having a good run or even making the playoffs, does that hurt his case for goat? Ironic that if he retired when brady left he would probably be considered better.

until someone accomplishes what BB has, then he will be the greatest, no question. These knee jerk reactions after a loss are laughable. We are rebuilding after 20 years of absolute dominance...not sure what people expect. I sat in the aluminum bleachers at Schaffer Stadium, so i know what suck looks like. We will be ok, i promise

 

[TheRainMaker]

Trading away Vrabel and Seymour

Vrabel was terrible in '08. He had to go. The problem was the LB's were eroding since 2005. Aside from Adalius Thomas in 2007, Bill ignored it.

Seymour was an awful trade. They lost one of their best lineman for a pick they couldn't use until 2011. He would've been useful a year later against the Jets where Sanchez went wild in the 2nd half. That was pathetic.

 

[Midship]

He's up there, and most in New England would say he is the best coach of all time for sure. I thought the same myself a couple years ago. But, the way things are going in Tampa and New England since Brady left has to make you reconsider (unless you are a horse-blinder wearing homer).

The national/general consensus will not be that Bill is the undisputed GOAT unless he is able to win another super bowl sans #12. His current six as a head coach were with the greatest athlete in North American sports history, playing the most important/influential position in all of sports. That fact cannot be downplayed.

 

[everlong]

Vrabel was terrible in '08. He had to go. The problem was the LB's were eroding since 2005. Aside from Adalius Thomas in 2007, Bill ignored it.

Seymour was an awful trade. They lost one of their best lineman for a pick they couldn't use until 2011. He would've been useful a year later against the Jets where Sanchez went wild in the 2nd half. That was pathetic.

Letting both go at once caused the leadership void because Bruschi and Rodney left too. I would have liked him to make Vrabel a player coach or something if he was going to trade Seymour as well.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Belichick is great.

Can an argument be made that one day, despite being great that Belichick's culture can no longer produce wins with the Patriots? Yes.

Imo, if next season we aren't a playoff team then 2023 is the season Belichick NEEDS to right the ship and get us into the playoffs. Last season was void. This season he will get a pass due to a rookie. Next season he won't get a pass but I will be content if I see improvement. However the season after? Yeah, he better get us in.

 

[Run DMC]

Belichick is overrated. He inherited a Parcells defense for the 1st dynasty and Brady carried his water and made up for various deficiencies for the 2nd. Is he an all time great coach, yes. The best ever? Hell no! I'd take Knoll, Walsh, Parcells, Lombardi, Gibbs, Landry, Madden over him any day of the week. He pulled a winning lotto ticket with Brady and it made this question even possible.
He's now old and his GM issues are crystal clear and obviously the team is now poorly coached the past few years. Sub .500 coach for his career without Brady. Sorry so many forum members cannot deal with facts. But can we have differing opinions without being banned and muzzled?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Belichick is overrated. He inherited a Parcells defense for the 1st dynasty and Brady carried his water and made up for various deficiencies for the 2nd. Is he an all time great coach, yes. The best ever? Hell no! I'd take Knoll, Walsh, Parcells, Lombardi, Gibbs, Landry, Madden over him any day of the week. He pulled a winning lotto ticket with Brady and it made this question even possible.
He's now old and his GM issues are crystal clear and obviously the team is now poorly coached the past few years. Sub .500 coach for his career without Brady. Sorry so many forum members cannot deal with facts. But can we have differing opinions without being banned and muzzled?

Yeah he needs to have some winning seasons without Brady. If he can't make the playoffs in the next few years, that's going to look really bad.

 

[Pats1971]

Belichick is great.

Can an argument be made that one day, despite being great that Belichick's culture can no longer produce wins with the Patriots? Yes.

Imo, if next season we aren't a playoff team then 2023 is the season Belichick NEEDS to right the ship and get us into the playoffs. Last season was void. This season he will get a pass due to a rookie. Next season he won't get a pass but I will be content if I see improvement. However the season after? Yeah, he better get us in.

Wait. I thought he got a pass last year because Brady just left and we had no money? They just spent 150 mil in free agency, so now its, well they had a rookie QB? Well maybe 5-10 years from now, we can actually count these games I guess.

 

[Pats1971]

until someone accomplishes what BB has, then he will be the greatest, no question. These knee jerk reactions after a loss are laughable. We are rebuilding after 20 years of absolute dominance...not sure what people expect. I sat in the aluminum bleachers at Schaffer Stadium, so i know what suck looks like. We will be ok, i promise

Yeah no, the pats rebuilt a lot of times in the last 20 years, but Brady was still here so the 10-6 11-5 seasons where they didnt win the superbowl, those were the rebuild years. If you think they only rebuilt this year and never before, then you might need to check the rosters.

 

[Fuzz]

To consider him the undisputed GOAT, he'll have to win one with Mac or go deep into the playoffs multiple times. If he stays for another 4-5 years, i think he'll get there.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Wait. I thought he got a pass last year because Brady just left and we had no money? They just spent 150 mil in free agency, so now its, well they had a rookie QB? Well maybe 5-10 years from now, we can actually count these games I guess.

Back when we lost Brady, I stated I was fine with a rebuild and said the first two seasons would be a pass. However, next season yeah he should make the playoffs.