Backup QB?

[Mack Herron]

Not much duscission of this competition. If they sign Vinnie to be the backup (as he himself stated) then Cassel or Gutierrez are fighting for one roster spot (if that). If Cassel takes it, then they can try to develop Gutierrez on the PS. Is it possible that the rookie wins the spot outright? Alternatively, does Vinnie continue to be an unsigned FA practicing with the team until the time comes when and if he is needed? Does anyone think with so much depth elsewhere that they might only carry two QBs (which would mean the likely insurance is Gutierrez on PS)?

 

[dryheat44]

Not much duscission of this competition. If they sign Vinnie to be the backup (as he himself stated) then Cassel or Gutierrez are fighting for one roster spot (if that). If Cassel takes it, then they can try to develop Gutierrez on the PS. Is it possible that the rookie wins the spot outright? Alternatively, does Vinnie continue to be an unsigned FA practicing with the team until the time comes when and if he is needed? Does anyone think with so much depth elsewhere that they might only carry two QBs (which would mean the likely insurance is Gutierrez on PS)?

I thought that was exactly the plan, but according to Vinny, he's going to sign an actual contract. In that case, I would guess that Gutierrez gets paid his full salary to go to the practice squad, with an eye toward being #2 or #3 next year, depending on whether or not they sign a vet. I think that Cassel will be traded next offseason for a QB needy team.

 

[patsgo]

I thought that was exactly the plan, but according to Vinny, he's going to sign an actual contract. In that case, I would guess that Gutierrez gets paid his full salary to go to the practice squad, with an eye toward being #2 or #3 next year, depending on whether or not they sign a vet. I think that Cassel will be traded next offseason for a QB needy team.

unless cassell improves this pre season, i dont get all the hype, he's looked shaky to me , running for his life getting a lot of balls swatted, lets hope he does better, if hes up and down again, his stock wont be worth much

 

[Robdude]

I do not see any reason another team would want to trade for Cassel. He has not shown anything that leads me to believe he can be a starting QB in the NFL. I know he looked good in that one dolphins game. But lets be honest he is not trade material.

 

[Canada's #1 Pats Fan]

Depending on how Gutierrez does during preseason games, the Pats may have to carry him on their 53, just like they did with Brady years ago. It could happen, will it? Probably not.

 

[cstjohn17]

I do not see any reason another team would want to trade for Cassel. He has not shown anything that leads me to believe he can be a starting QB in the NFL. I know he looked good in that one dolphins game. But lets be honest he is not trade material.

I agree, IMO Cassell has never appeared to be more than a marginal backup. He looks like many other young QBs who have a lot of happy feet and are too panicked to ever be consistent. If some team gives the Patriots a day 1 pick, I will drive him to the airport. If all we can get is a Day 2 pick then he is worth more to the Patriots as a backup.

I see the roster looking like:

53 - Brady, Cassell
Shadow - Vinnie T. , brought in around the bye (week 10)
Practice - take some strain of the top QBs by keeping Gutierrez, allow him to grow and compete for the role of "designated Bench warmer" and "clipboard holder"

 

[dryheat44]

I do not see any reason another team would want to trade for Cassel. He has not shown anything that leads me to believe he can be a starting QB in the NFL. I know he looked good in that one dolphins game. But lets be honest he is not trade material.

See Schaub, Matthew.

A Quarterback who looks good in limited duty and has been in the league four years isn't a bad option for a team with a shaky QB situation. When said QB comes from a winning program and has shown good work habits practicing with one of the best QBs of all time, so much the better.

I mean honestly, do we have any reason to believe that Brady Quinn or JeMarcus Russell has any higher upside than Cassell? Figure in the cost of spending a number one pick plus first round money on an unproven QB vs. the cost of acquiring a veteran backup QB, and it makes sense for a team to spend maybe a fourth round pick to get a guy like Cassell.

 

[patsgo]

See Schaub, Matthew.

A Quarterback who looks good in limited duty and has been in the league four years isn't a bad option for a team with a shaky QB situation. When said QB comes from a winning program and has shown good work habits practicing with one of the best QBs of all time, so much the better.

I mean honestly, do we have any reason to believe that Brady Quinn or JeMarcus Russell has any higher upside than Cassell? Figure in the cost of spending a number one pick plus first round money on an unproven QB vs. the cost of acquiring a veteran backup QB, and it makes sense for a team to spend maybe a fourth round pick to get a guy like Cassell.

i saw matt schwaab play and matt cassell is no matt schwaab, also schwaab had a track record in college where cassell has none, all your attributes didnt help rohan davey or kliff kingsbury, the bottom line is cassell hant been that impressive in his playing time

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Cassel has generally looked good when he's played. His pocket presence hasn't been good and his slides are positively horrible. But he's shown good mobility, and both a strong and accurate arm. And the ability to make a play. To have much trade value he'll have to look solid again this preseason and look better in the pocket.

 

[p8ryts]

I've seen Cassel in 2 training camp practices and he was frequently scrambling. If you can't find anyone open in 7 on 7 or 11 on 11, I don't know what to think. This is his third camp. I've lost confidence in his progress. Gutierrez looked better throwing the ball but again it was only training camp and early at that.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

There is no competition at the QB position. Brady is #1. Cassel is #2. Vinny may or may not sign or be kept on the 53 if he does. All we have heard on that subject is what Vinny anticipated in a radio interview. We haven't heard anything from Belioli on the subject. Gutierrez is what he is - an UDFA who was slated to be the starter at Michigan until he lost his job due to injury and then transferred to a lesser program. He seemed to have some of the traits they look for in a QB in this system. By all accounts he is a hard worker at the least. If BB sees enough in that, he likely goes to the PS with a very outside shot at the 53.

I don't think those among us who seem intent on analyzing backup QB's, including the local media, are very well equipped to make that assessment. We see little if any of other teams backups, and they aren't often being asked to run a sight adjusted offense. Most of what we see of Cassel in camp is with the 2nd and 3rd string offense. The one opportunity he had to work with the starters (or most of them) so far he apparently looked very good. Go figure... The one time he was asked to actually run this offense in a regular season game, albeit with 2nd and 3rd stringers facing a top ranked first string Miami defense playing with pride for it's winning season record, he performed about as well as Brady ever does for the most part against that particular defense. He is easily the best backup we have had since Huard or Brady.

I think BB has always desired to have a system in place that would allow him to groom diamonds in the rough into trading capital. He also wants to have a solid backup who understands the system and can run it. I have always held that what we do with Cassel is dependent on what stands behind him. I was surprized we didn't draft a QB this season, but Gutierrez though an UDFA appears to have many of the base qualities they look for in a QB for this system. He may develop, or he may not. If he doesn't I doubt Cassel will be on the trading block in 2008 since his value to BB as a backup thoroughly familiar with this system may well exceed most any price he might command.

i saw matt schwaab play and matt cassell is no matt schwaab, also schwaab had a track record in college where cassell has none, all your attributes didnt help rohan davey or kliff kingsbury, the bottom line is cassell hant been that impressive in his playing time

It's Schaub, and he wasn't running a sight adjusted offense - he was filling in for a seat of the pants scrambler (who couldn't run one either) on a team that never really had a plan on how to win, just inserted him as needed to try to fill in and win. And oddly he didn't. He showed flashes of brilliance against teams who hadn't game planned for him. But at the end of the day they never won a regular season game he started, he had a 52% completion pecentage with 6 TD's and 6 INTS and a QB rating of 69.2. Cassel has seen far more limited duty given Brady's durability. He has completed 56% of his limited passes for 2 TD and 1 INT and has an 84.8 QB rating. He's not sent in there with the admonition to make something happen. He's sent in there to run whatever plays are called in to him by a coach with a very conservative mindset. He's had little opportunity to show what he can do in game situations, but he's actually made the most of his opportunities when they actually existed.

Rohan Davey and Cliff Kingsbury didn't have any attributes (other than perhaps Rohan had an endearing personality...).

 

[WhiZa]

I've seen Cassel in 2 training camp practices and he was frequently scrambling. If you can't find anyone open in 7 on 7 or 11 on 11, I don't know what to think. This is his third camp. I've lost confidence in his progress. Gutierrez looked better throwing the ball but again it was only training camp and early at that.

I remember this from last preseason too. In fact I looked it up and he had the most rushing yards and attempts of any QB last preseason. If he acctualy got playing time he would be able to make better decisions then having to run the ball so much. The good thing about Cassel is that he would rather make no decision then make a bad decision, but he does have to learn to take more risks.

 

[Mainefan]

I strongly agree with MoLewisRocks about Cassel. I think he has tremendous upside, which has barely been tapped, and that BB is keeping him around in the hopes that he'll develop into someone very special.

I'm even willing to say that if Brady goes down and Cassel is forced to take over, the Patriots are definitely NOT finished for the year, perhaps no more than they were when Drew went down.

 

[patsgo]

There is no competition at the QB position. Brady is #1. Cassel is #2. Vinny may or may not sign or be kept on the 53 if he does. All we have heard on that subject is what Vinny anticipated in a radio interview. We haven't heard anything from Belioli on the subject. Gutierrez is what he is - an UDFA who was slated to be the starter at Michigan until he lost his job due to injury and then transferred to a lesser program. He seemed to have some of the traits they look for in a QB in this system. By all accounts he is a hard worker at the least. If BB sees enough in that, he likely goes to the PS with a very outside shot at the 53.

I don't think those among us who seem intent on analyzing backup QB's, including the local media, are very well equipped to make that assessment. We see little if any of other teams backups, and they aren't often being asked to run a sight adjusted offense. Most of what we see of Cassel in camp is with the 2nd and 3rd string offense. The one opportunity he had to work with the starters (or most of them) so far he apparently looked very good. Go figure... The one time he was asked to actually run this offense in a regular season game, albeit with 2nd and 3rd stringers facing a top ranked first string Miami defense playing with pride for it's winning season record, he performed about as well as Brady ever does for the most part against that particular defense. He is easily the best backup we have had since Huard or Brady.

I think BB has always desired to have a system in place that would allow him to groom diamonds in the rough into trading capital. He also wants to have a solid backup who understands the system and can run it. I have always held that what we do with Cassel is dependent on what stands behind him. I was surprized we didn't draft a QB this season, but Gutierrez though an UDFA appears to have many of the base qualities they look for in a QB for this system. He may develop, or he may not. If he doesn't I doubt Cassel will be on the trading block in 2008 since his value to BB as a backup thoroughly familiar with this system may well exceed most any price he might command.



It's Schaub, and he wasn't running a sight adjusted offense - he was filling in for a seat of the pants scrambler (who couldn't run one either) on a team that never really had a plan on how to win, just inserted him as needed to try to fill in and win. And oddly he didn't. He showed flashes of brilliance against teams who hadn't game planned for him. But at the end of the day they never won a regular season game he started, he had a 52% completion pecentage with 6 TD's and 6 INTS and a QB rating of 69.2. Cassel has seen far more limited duty given Brady's durability. He has completed 56% of his limited passes for 2 TD and 1 INT and has an 84.8 QB rating. He's not sent in there with the admonition to make something happen. He's sent in there to run whatever plays are called in to him by a coach with a very conservative mindset. He's had little opportunity to show what he can do in game situations, but he's actually made the most of his opportunities when they actually existed.

Rohan Davey and Cliff Kingsbury didn't have any attributes (other than perhaps Rohan had an endearing personality...).

we shall see very soon this pre season wont we, lets hope he does well,im pulling for him but my eyes have told me not to get to excitedwhen i witnessed him at tc and in games,the attributes i was refering to was dryheat's working hard,playing behind brady, playing for bb, and playing for a winner, all which davey, and kingsbury did

 

[psychoPat]

I strongly agree with MoLewisRocks about Cassel. I think he has tremendous upside, which has barely been tapped, and that BB is keeping him around in the hopes that he'll develop into someone very special.

I'm even willing to say that if Brady goes down and Cassel is forced to take over, the Patriots are definitely NOT finished for the year, perhaps no more than they were when Drew went down.

Good for you, o brave Maine-iac!

This board is all too full of folks prepared to surrender in advance
should The Unthinkable happen.

The key for me is that Cassel has done well under fire
even when surrounded and supported by backups and bubble players.
May we never really learn how well he does at the controls of the starting offense.
But why not assume that he'd look even better then ...
than with the seconds and thirds?

 

[psychoPat]

It's only one, tightly-controlled data point ... but
Albert Breer put this up a few hours ago:

Backup QB Matt Cassel just finished off a two-minute exercise, with decidedly less than two minutes to work with. The coaches put just over 30 seconds on the clock, and the ball near the 40. Cassel quickly completed two passes, the second of which went to Kelvin Kight, who was “taken down” in bounds. The “tackle” happened with about 15 seconds showing and prompted the field goal unit to hurry on to the field (a no-timeout situation) and quickly assemble for Stephen Gostkowski to nail a 40-yarder as the clock ran dry.

 

[dryheat44]

davey, and kingsbury did

Both of these guys were ill-equipped to lead this offense. Davey was an athlete with a rocket arm who even at LSU had difficulties reading a defense. Kingsbury played at that fluky Texas Tech offense that leads to huge yardage and touchdown numbers, and no hope for pro success. I didn't think there was a trade market for either one, not even after Davey won the NFL Europe MVP.

Cassel, at USC and New England, has proven that he has the mental part of the game down. He looks to have the talent, and I guess it's his decision making under fire that will make or break him.

I think the fact that Belichick has been comfortable with him as a second stringer for three years speaks volumes.

 

[patsgo]

Both of these guys were ill-equipped to lead this offense. Davey was an athlete with a rocket arm who even at LSU had difficulties reading a defense. Kingsbury played at that fluky Texas Tech offense that leads to huge yardage and touchdown numbers, and no hope for pro success. I didn't think there was a trade market for either one, not even after Davey won the NFL Europe MVP.

Cassel, at USC and New England, has proven that he has the mental part of the game down. He looks to have the talent, and I guess it's his decision making under fire that will make or break him.

I think the fact that Belichick has been comfortable with him as a second stringer for three years speaks volumes.

davey was second string as well

 

[dryheat44]

davey was second string as well

For a little while. And then got demoted behind Jim Miller, and then didn't make the team the next year ahead of Cassel and Doug Flutie.

If Davey really had QB potential, Belichick wouldn't have sent him to NFL Europe.

Anyway, this is all in the past now. I think Cassel will be a tradeable commodity a year from now, and you don't. Fair enough.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

i saw matt schwaab play and matt cassell is no matt schwaab, also schwaab had a track record in college where cassell has none, all your attributes didnt help rohan davey or kliff kingsbury, the bottom line is cassell hant been that impressive in his playing time

Cassel likely would have had a track record too if he went to Virginia. He was recruited by Pete Carroll though for USC. He got stuck behind back to back Heisman Trophy winners in what Pete has characterized on several occasions as a coin flip decision.

I doubt you know much about Matt Schaub before Atlanta either. He didn't finally get to be the annointed starter in Va until a couple of games into his Junior season. Then in his senior year he was injured and missed most of the season.

His trade value was based almost entirely on a comeback victory against the Colts in the Tokyo Bowl pre season game - one Manning and the starters sat out for most of. His perceived value on this board is based almost entirely on his performance in a losing effort against us in 2005 when our defense was reeling. They probably feel the same way about Matt Cassel in Miami. After all, had BB not ordered him to throw that 2 point conversion away...

Packers fans probably guffawed when their former HC traded Seattle's first and third round picks for Green Bay's first and seventh round picks and a 3rd year backup named Hasselbeck who had been drafted in the 6th round and had done little to impress them in two seasons as Favre's backup. Matt played his college ball at BC, where Cassel likely would have started as well.