Any news on the offensive line?

[PatFanCraig]

But kaczur never looked good at RT. Replacing him should had been a priority as should any NFL player starting by default and below average.

 

[Ring 6]

But kaczur never looked good at RT. Replacing him should had been a priority as should any NFL player starting by default and below average.

Kaczur was the second best RT of the BB era.

 

[captain stone]

Just curious what you mean by "testing numbers"? What numbers are important for O-linemen?

Benchpress, Broadjump, vertical.
Halapio didn't bench at either his Pro Day or the Combine. His Pro-Day vertical was a 27, a 6 in. improvement over the Combine. His Broad-jump was 8'4".

Fleming had 26 reps at the combine, a 26 in. vertical. and an 8'1" Broadjump.

Yankey had 22 reps, a 30 in. vertical and a 8'7. " broadjump.

Not sure how you can claim that Halapio is "just terrible". Are you basing it on his Senior season when he played through a pectoral tear??

Bench press, broad jump & vertical are the #s at which for OLmen I look also.

Besides the bench press, Yankey's #s were superior to both Fleming & Halapio, and he improved his
bench #s from 22 to 25 at his pro day.

And yes, I am basing my opinion on Halapio mostly by his last year in school, which unfortunately
for him was marred by his torn pec; I'm also just not convinced that he would've been a good fit
for us even if he had not suffered yet another injury.

Maybe PFCraig is on to something when he discusses the possibility of Halapio at Center and Fleming
at RG, thereby nullifying their weaknesses as athletes in space.

 

[PatFanCraig]

Kaczur was the second best RT of the BB era.

Even if he was the 2nd best which I don't think he was but maybe it is debatable he was, he was terrible and below average. He was also the starter protecting the edge for our all time great QB. Its not like he started because the starter was injured,he was their best option which was pathetic. In 06-07 replacing him should have been a top priority. He was terrible. Our offense leveled off a little late in the season and playoffs and he was the primary reason. Teams knew he couldn't block just decent pass rushers without help. He was always terrible. After he was FINALLY cut,no other team even wanted him as a backup. He was out of the NFL. He was left in there because he knew the blocking scheme very well and played intelligently in the system. Bellichick liked that about Kaczur and made zero attempt to upgrade even though he lacked skills terribly. He actually may have been an OK guard like he was projected to in the NFL. But he knew the job at Tackle where he had no business playing.

It was rumored coaching,Brady,Moss and maybe some others were extremely PI$$ED at that OLine after the game ,especially Kaczur,and had some problems containing that extreme anger.

 

[PatFanCraig]

Exactly Captain! Fleming may lack athleticism to be a good RT in the NFL but his athleticism/quickness for a guard is very good. Couple that with his power/length/great feel for blocking and growing tenacity and we should have a fine nearly 6'5 and 330 lb guard with long arms and a great feel for blocking. Fleming was known for never losing against DLineman at Stanford. We really think his skills translate to a very good/ special RG.

Halapio has good power/tenacity and feel for blocking. Not quite the feel and smarts of Fleming but still very good feel/intelligence in his own right. He however lacks athleticism slightly even for a guard. But at center that won't be much of a problem. Quick athletic penetrators won't have much room to out quick him and get around him. He also would very rarely be matched with an athletic 3-4 DE. He can do what his skillset/size/strength/extreme tenacity would be best at ,snap the ball and drive the DLine off the ball. Coaching at Florida was very close to switching him to center because of their center struggling with power. He practiced at center a lot in the scenario the center kept getting bullied much like Wendell and at times Conolly to. Halapio with a torn Pec stood up Tim Jernigan fairly often when matched and never bullied by him. Their center was bullied so bad by Jernigan at times it was funny/comical.
I would like to see Halapio get a shot and some work in at center. He and Fleming at RG would be a huge upgrade over last years bullying victims Wendell and his partner.

 

[ATippett56]

Any news on the offensive line?

Yeah, the offensive line looked pathetic in the first preseason game.

 

[jmt57]

Even if he was the 2nd best which I don't think he was but maybe it is debatable he was, he was terrible and below average. He was also the starter protecting the edge for our all time great QB. Its not like he started because the starter was injured,
he was their best option which was pathetic. In 06-07 replacing him should have been a top priority.

After one season I don't recall Kaczur looking so horrible that it was time to already throw in the towel. If anything, he showed more promise than his predecessors, Tom Ashworth and Brandon Gorin. And again, for one of your hindsight suggestions as to whom the Pats should have drafted, that means that the Patriots don't have Jerod Mayo.

There are 21 other positions on the team, and some of those other positions were in need of upgrades too. Kaczur was certainly no all-pro, but this all sounds like stereotypical draft hindsight to me. If the Pats had attempted to find his replacement with an early 2007 draft pick then they may have ended up with Tony Ugoh or James Marten.

He was terrible. Our offense leveled off a little late in the season and playoffs and he was the primary reason.

No, the offense leveled off because teams were finally figuring out how to defend against the three and four wide offense. The team as a whole was running on fumes towards the end.

Teams knew he couldn't block just decent pass rushers without help. He was always terrible.

Yes, winning franchises have a habit of giving new contracts to terrible players; that's how they keep winning.

To hear that description I would think that he personally caused the Patriots set an NFL record in 2007 for the least amount of points scored.

After he was FINALLY cut,no other team even wanted him as a backup. He was out of the NFL.

Kaczur was released and did not get another job because he didn't want to take a pay cut after undergoing back surgery. For some players it's simply not worth it to put your body at risk to play for a vet minimum salary.

He was left in there because he knew the blocking scheme very well and played intelligently in the system. Bellichick liked that about Kaczur and made zero attempt to upgrade even though he lacked skills terribly. He actually may have been an OK guard like he was projected to in the NFL. But he knew the job at Tackle where he had no business playing.

If Belichick was so enamored with Kaczur, then why did he draft Vollmer, leave him in the starting lineup after Kaczur was healthy enough to return, decide to convert Kaczur to guard, ask him to take a pay cut, and release him?


Kaczur was good enough to start, and when his ceiling became apparent a replacement (Vollmer) was brought in. It's simply not possible to draft first and second round Pro Bowl talent at all 22 starting positions.

 

[Ring 6]

Even if he was the 2nd best which I don't think he was but maybe it is debatable he was, he was terrible and below average. He was also the starter protecting the edge for our all time great QB. Its not like he started because the starter was injured,he was their best option which was pathetic. In 06-07 replacing him should have been a top priority. He was terrible. Our offense leveled off a little late in the season and playoffs and he was the primary reason. Teams knew he couldn't block just decent pass rushers without help. He was always terrible. After he was FINALLY cut,no other team even wanted him as a backup. He was out of the NFL. He was left in there because he knew the blocking scheme very well and played intelligently in the system. Bellichick liked that about Kaczur and made zero attempt to upgrade even though he lacked skills terribly. He actually may have been an OK guard like he was projected to in the NFL. But he knew the job at Tackle where he had no business playing.

It was rumored coaching,Brady,Moss and maybe some others were extremely PI$$ED at that OLine after the game ,especially Kaczur,and had some problems containing that extreme anger.

I 100% disagree with you so I will only make one comment.

Saying that BB prefers poor players who know his system is the most ignorant take I've seen around here in years. There is absolutely nothing to support that. How did Kaczur start as a rookie if that was the case? Light? Koppen? Etc etc.

 

[captain stone]

Saying that BB prefers poor players who know his system is the most ignorant take I've seen around here in years...

Then how does one explain Eric Alexander lasting as long as he did?

 

[captain stone]

Kaczur was the second best RT of the BB era.

I thought that Tom Ashworth was better before he left to sign for bigger bucks elsewhere as a UFA.

 

[Ring 6]

I thought that Tom Ashworth was better before he left to sign for bigger bucks elsewhere as a UFA.

I didn't. Ashworth started 30 games and was in fact let leave when Kaczur took his job.
If you remember it was rookie Kaczur, not former LT Ashworth who went to LT when Light was injured. Ashworth wasn't re-signed because of Kaczur, who started 62 games before going out with back surgery which ended his career

 

[Ring 6]

Then how does one explain Eric Alexander lasting as long as he did?

Alexander was a special teamer.
Are you implying that BB felt there were better football players that could help the team more but instead decided to keep Alexander who sucked so he didn't have to coach up new players?
Thats the point I was disagreeing with.

 

[VrabelJr]

It was rumored coaching,Brady,Moss and maybe some others were extremely PI$$ED at that OLine after the game ,especially Kaczur,and had some problems containing that extreme anger.

1. I call BS on this rumor and trying to use a rumor in an argument is just sad as it is.

2. Logan Mankins getting owned by Justin Tuck was a far bigger issue than Kaczur vs Strahan.

 

[Bombdog]

By the end of the season both Halapio and Fleming will be seeing significant time and will be tearing it up.

 

[Ring 6]

1. I call BS on this rumor and trying to use a rumor in an argument is just sad as it is.

2. Logan Mankins getting owned by Justin Tuck was a far bigger issue than Kaczur vs Strahan.

Craig likes to make things up.

 

[woolster22]

Halapio and Fleming saw time at guard while Grop ran the third team offense, with Wendy at center. One set with the ones saw a left to right set of Cannon, Mankind, Connolly, vollmer, Solder (Vollmer/Solder may be flip flopped). Play was ran from about the offensive twenty and the ball ran to the right (Vollmer/Solder) through a lane you could drive a bus through. That stood out big time to me. Connelly got a ton of time with the ones at center, Wendell not so much (but did have a td reception on a fake field goal, hip thumping Connelly in celebration afterwards...big crowd favorite!j.

 

[woolster22]

Kline also saw some time with the ones...

 

[Patriot Missile]

I'm not liking what I'm reading from these guys. Of all the units they seem to be the most unsettled.

 

[woolster22]

We aren't even at the second preseason game. Judging from today, Wendell is a goner, they aren't sure of the second string depth chart, and the funky stacked play was an experiment that worked very well.

That said, Solder did not look all that great to me. Consistently getting beat up field and occasionally not getting his arms out. One play he seemed to trip over his own feet and try to head butt the end blazing up field...looked very strange...

For one entire eleven on eleven series Solder was dealing with wide lined de/olb, shooting up field like a sob. Most the time he seemed to get a hand(a) on him, but did nothing short of throw him outside Brady. If it was full go, a shoulder dip and dive may have proved terrible to our starting qb. At the very least, a run by and cut up field on a well covered play would probably be a blind side hit.

 

[captain stone]

Last year Solder was good for at least one complete screw-up per game, and unfortunately it appears
as if he's continuing that trend in TC. He better start pulling his head outta his ass before he gets
Brady hospitalized.