NFL News Another Damning Concussion Study (I wish this was a joke)

[RobertWeathers]

I was at a kid's birthday a few weeks ago, and I saw a four-year-old who had three fresh staples in his head from a pillow fight.

I have kids too and the **** that they've done is worth writing a book on.

 

[neuronet]

Actually a couple of engineering degrees probably says that I am, but don't let that stop you

Sorry to hear that, as I was going to add if you were a scientist, I would say u r bad one with lack of scientific imagination. Though engineering degree is not scientist. That's the kind of false equivalence hackery the creationists say. Scientists do science. Engineers build widgets and then give them to other people to use and be creative with.

 

[Fixit]

That was one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

 

[BTTA]

The question now is: What do we do? Outside of rules that will water down the sport even more, and the best of the best helmets and pads?

Easy enough. For pros a waiver. You make millions, (and make a post season league paid bonus for the part time players aka special teamers who sign for cheap money usually), so the waiver shouldn't be a big deal. If you love the sport, you sign the waiver.

OK, as long as the waiver includes foregoing access to health care and supportive care for any health issues that are potentially related to repeatedly being hit on the head. Personally, I'm not fond of the idea of being in the insurance pool with people who choose to get rich by sacrificing their health and then insisting that all of us pitch in to pay for their care later in life.

And yes, we are all in one big health care insurance pool. That's been the case ever since health care got so expensive that 99.8% of us can't pay for it from regular income. Everything that looks like personal independence in this matter is just fog and window dressing.

 

[IllegalContact]

Sorry to hear that, as I was going to add if you were a scientist, I would say u r bad one with lack of scientific imagination. Though engineering degree is not scientist. That's the kind of false equivalence hackery the creationists say. Scientists do science. Engineers build widgets and then give them to other people to use and be creative with.

Typical reply when you get hit over the head by your own lack of knowledge.

But back to the point....there's a very finite number of directions the data can take you .... And I already know the primary conclusion, but it won't fly.....kind of like the NFL reasoning for not measuring and publicizing footballs at every game....they'll know the answer is something they can't work with

Btw, Scientists need to be told to take showers and change their underwear

 

[IllegalContact]

It sounds like you are doing some interesting work! And, if you are working with accelerometers it sounds like you have some experience in the subject at hand.

I agree that no helmut technology will eliminate concussions. However, it is possible that there could be improvements in helmut technology with scientific testing, here is an article from my place on the subject: The UAB Mix - Smash-mouth football in the lab points the way to better helmets on the field

I've talked to these guys, and although having accelerometers in the helmut could conceivably provide important data trends with a large enough data set, the problem seems to be that there isn't really a one-to-one correlation between acceleration and concussion, sometimes fairly large accelerations don't seem to cause concussions and sometimes lower accelerations do (like with your daughter's pillow fight). .....However, this isn't really my area of research expertise, so what I say probably should be taken with a grain of salt ....probably a good general rule to follow for anything I say now that I think of it.

The accelorometers can give you the characteristic of motion....problem is that the correlation to biology will be subjective since while the mechanics are reproducible, what's inside every head is different

You could record endless data from the contactor, contactee......you would have everything in terms of the information about the physical nature....but accuracy will be compromised due to little things like helmet fit....will every helmet be calibrated to its head....will it change if the guy gets a haircut? How will the effect of the jaw slamming shut be included into that data? Constant base lining through periodic brain scanning could help in an individual basis

Awesome modeling challenge, but I think we all know the ultimate answer is actually very simple......contact will result in concussions

I guess we could require everyone to wear the sumo wrestling suits to slow the game down

 

[zydecochris]

The accelorometers can give you the characteristic of motion....problem is that the correlation to biology will be subjective since while the mechanics are reproducible, what's inside every head is different

You could record endless data from the contactor, contactee......you would have everything in terms of the information about the physical nature....but accuracy will be compromised due to little things like helmet fit....will every helmet be calibrated to its head....will it change if the guy gets a haircut? How will the effect of the jaw slamming shut be included into that data? Constant base lining through periodic brain scanning could help in an individual basis

Awesome modeling challenge, but I think we all know the ultimate answer is actually very simple......contact will result in concussions

I guess we could require everyone to wear the sumo wrestling suits to slow the game down

I would congratulate you on a very insightful and informative post, if it weren't for the fact that I'm not speaking to you for saying that scientists need to be told when to take showers and change their underwear. My wife may have to tell me when to clip my toenails, but for the record I have the showering and underwear thing down pat.

 

[BradyFTW!]

This has been theorized for a long time, but people have been able to fall back on the simple fact that the evidence wasn't *that* compelling.

Bottom line: if repetitive subconcussive hits lead to cognitive impairment, then long term that's probably the death of football. What kind of parents will allow their kids to play football once/if this link is proven?

 

[DaBruinz]

This is why I won't let my 8 year old play tackle football. Flag football for him.

This is why I'm for the new program they have that keeps kids out of tackle football until High School and then teaches them the proper way to tackle.. I forget what the name of it is..

 

[IllegalContact]

I would congratulate you on a very insightful and informative post, if it weren't for the fact that I'm not speaking to you for saying that scientists need to be told when to take showers and change their underwear. My wife may have to tell me when to clip my toenails, but for the record I have the showering and underwear thing down pat.

Then you're simply not focusing enough

 

[Tunescribe]

I'm almost tired of all these concussion studies. Honestly. I think at this point we know what the concussions do and the prevalence of them.

The question now is: What do we do? Outside of rules that will water down the sport even more, and the best of the best helmets and pads?

Easy enough. For pros a waiver. You make millions, (and make a post season league paid bonus for the part time players aka special teamers who sign for cheap money usually), so the waiver shouldn't be a big deal. If you love the sport, you sign the waiver.

For youth sports I'm not sure. Part of me thinks people need to make it as safe as possible and let things go. You only live once and I'm not walking around people who are complete vegetables because they played youth ball. That's with even less focus (none really) on CTE and such.

In the end sporting is about risk. That's part of the thrill of playing it and for those of us that watch it. I mean think about it. Auto racing fans (of every form) over the years have actually seen people die. Numerous times. It's all a risk.

I tend to be optimistic that the concussion problem will be solved, probably medically and also with equipment. Here is one example of a promising solution I've posted previously:

New 'Collar' Aims to Help Shield Brain From Concussion

I will say that things like all the horrific concussion PR, the Patriots' injury-plagued 2015 season and Goodell's never-ending crapping on New England have taken a toll on my enjoyment of the Pats and the NFL in general. I've never felt this disappointed in pro football.

 

[DaBruinz]

This has been theorized for a long time, but people have been able to fall back on the simple fact that the evidence wasn't *that* compelling.

Bottom line: if repetitive subconcussive hits lead to cognitive impairment, then long term that's probably the death of football. What kind of parents will allow their kids to play football once/if this link is proven?

The same ones who let their kids play Rugby, LaCrosse, and Hockey.

One of the things that people are over-looking is that it's not just helmets that need to be improved. But the mouth guards as well.

If you delay tackle football until they are 13/14 and teach them the right way to tackle, with proper helmets and proper mouthguards, I bet you reduce the chance of long term issues significantly..

 

[Patriot Missile]

This is why I'm for the new program they have that keeps kids out of tackle football until High School and then teaches them the proper way to tackle.. I forget what the name of it is..

We have a great program for kids out here. All the coaches,refs and judges have been retrained entirely over the last 2 seasons. Concussion awareness, tackling techniques, diet and hydration are closely monitored as well as mandatory classes with recertification every year. The changes have been swift and with purpose. Weight and height are now a factor in how teams are chosen. (No longer the 8 year old that is 5'8 and 150 pounds dominating the field because of genetics.

I'm not sure what the right age is to start tackle football but you can really tell they are making a real effort to keep it safer.

 

[DaBruinz]

I just found it.. It's the USA Football "Heads Up" Program..

Heads Up Football | Youth Football | USA Football | Football's National Governing Body

 

[zydecochris]

I tend to be optimistic that the concussion problem will be solved, probably medically and also with equipment. Here is one example of a promising solution I've posted previously:

New 'Collar' Aims to Help Shield Brain From Concussion

I will say that things like all the horrific concussion PR, the Patriots' injury-plagued 2015 season and Goodell's never-ending crapping on New England have taken a toll on my enjoyment of the Pats and the NFL in general. I've never felt this disappointed in pro football.

Interesting!

 

[RobertWeathers]

We have a great program for kids out here. All the coaches,refs and judges have been retrained entirely over the last 2 seasons. Concussion awareness, tackling techniques, diet and hydration are closely monitored as well as mandatory classes with recertification every year. The changes have been swift and with purpose. Weight and height are now a factor in how teams are chosen. (No longer the 8 year old that is 5'8 and 150 pounds dominating the field because of genetics.

I'm not sure what the right age is to start tackle football but you can really tell they are making a real effort to keep it safer.

Concussion experts and doctors say that you should not start playing tackle football until ~16 years old or whenever the skull, brain and tissue that lies between has stopped developing.

 

[Tony2046]

The idea that subconcussive blows contribute to reaching the threshold for permanent cognitive and emotional damage is very concerning. Accelerometers are short money. They should be required on all school and NCAA level football helmets as well as sharing the data collected for each individual wearing one.

Excellent idea Galeb.

 

[pazrul72]

I was at a kid's birthday a few weeks ago, and I saw a four-year-old who had three fresh staples in his head from a pillow fight.

True story back when I was 8 or 9 I broke my brothers arm in a pillow fight. To be fair today he is 6'2 and 150 lbs soaking wet so he does have the bone density of a bird

 

[grux]

Literally this morning (after I saw this study) I started second-guessing my decision to let my 8-year-old start playing tackle this Spring. I wasn't too keen on it in the first place.

It isn't easy telling my son he can't play football but I would never forgive myself if he ended up with brain/head issues latter in life. Flag football is perfect for young children. They can learn the game without banging their heads in. Best of luck with whatever decision you make.

 

[grux]

This is why I'm for the new program they have that keeps kids out of tackle football until High School and then teaches them the proper way to tackle.. I forget what the name of it is..

I would be thrilled if this program comes to my area. Sounds great.