Alfonzo Dennard Trial

[Jackson 2]

I don't think under their rules they can suspend him for conduct before he was drafted. The draft is the line of demarcation.

But it's been proved before (with Terrelle Pryor) that they can override that rule if they really want to. Though I don't see why they would want to in this case, how could his alleged crime reflect badly on the NFL if he wasn't in the NFL at the time? Arguably the Patriots were the ones who damaged the NFL's rep by drafting him, this all was known before the draft.

When the Patriots drafted him, he was presumed to be innocent. How could an innocent man "damage the NFL's rep?"

 

[mgteich]

If Dennard is guilty, one might argue that Dennard lied to the nfl and various teams when he told them that he was innocent, and no criminal. This could then be considered an action worthy of penalty by the league.

I don't think under their rules they can suspend him for conduct before he was drafted. The draft is the line of demarcation.

But it's been proved before (with Terrelle Pryor) that they can override that rule if they really want to. Though I don't see why they would want to in this case, how could his alleged crime reflect badly on the NFL if he wasn't in the NFL at the time? Arguably the Patriots were the ones who damaged the NFL's rep by drafting him, this all was known before the draft.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Lets be real Goodell will suspend him if he spends any time in jail because this is the Patriots and he wants to seem like a hard ass to all the whiners out there that hate the Pats.

 

[patfanken]

if convicted..how many games will he be suspended by the NFL...we talking 6 games here plus jail time if it comes down to it? That would really mean we need to keep talib or get another FA semi big name guy

Kendrick Ellis was convicted of seriously beating a guy with a baseball bat.while in college He got 6 months, with 3 months suspended and NO games lost in the NFL. IIRC he missed just a few practices of Jets TC.

Compare that to the Dennard incident and it would be hard for the commish to defend such an arbitrary action like suspending Dennard for a one time incident prior to the draft.

 

[crew1954]

Would you guess that it's good news for Dennard (& us), or bad news?

Sounds like a hung jury. It's not like this was another McMartin case.

Hopefully if it is a hung jury the Prosecutors will just drop it. They covered their asses with the police by bringing Dennard to trial once.

 

[eom]

2 cops are lying that Dennard punched a police officer.

Its a conspiracy against Dennard.

Second officer says he saw Alfonzo Dennard punch a cop | ProFootballTalk

the odds of one cop lying are off the charts --- the odds of 2 cops lying?
probably won't see that again in our lifetimes.

 

[Fencer]

the odds of one cop lying are off the charts --- the odds of 2 cops lying?
probably won't see that again in our lifetimes.

Not funny. Some people might actually think you were serious in saying that.

 

[supafly]

Kendrick Ellis was convicted of seriously beating a guy with a baseball bat.while in college He got 6 months, with 3 months suspended and NO games lost in the NFL. IIRC he missed just a few practices of Jets TC.

Compare that to the Dennard incident and it would be hard for the commish to defend such an arbitrary action like suspending Dennard for a one time incident prior to the draft.

Yes, excellent example to compare to. This is a player who committed the act prior to being drafted and then was sentenced to 6 months in jail for a violent crime.

He missed zero games for being incarcerated, and zero for being disciplined from Goodell. I think a lot of people are overreacting to the Dennard case lately. He may get something comparable as far as jail time goes, but I doubt that he'd miss any games myself.

I don't think under their rules they can suspend him for conduct before he was drafted. The draft is the line of demarcation.

But it's been proved before (with Terrelle Pryor) that they can override that rule if they really want to. Though I don't see why they would want to in this case, how could his alleged crime reflect badly on the NFL if he wasn't in the NFL at the time? Arguably the Patriots were the ones who damaged the NFL's rep by drafting him, this all was known before the draft.

Yes, it has been proven with Terrell Pryor, but keep in mind that Pryor had already been convicted/sanctioned with an NCAA suspension for 5 games to the start of the upcoming season. Instead of taking his 5 game punishment, he decided to enter the NFL's supplemental draft in the summer to get around having to sit for half of his collegiate season.

The NFL basically tied up a loophole by stating that if a player is already being punished by the NCAA's, we aren't going to just ignore that punishment by allowing him to come to the pros and get away scot free. The NFLPA was up in arms over this ruling, but it is very different from the Dennard situation.

As far as Dennard goes, he was not enrolled in school anymore, nor was he punished by the NCAA's for doing anything. He also did not represent the NFL either as it happened before the draft. I would be very surprised to see anything come from Goodell, and I think that the K.Ellis situation is a good comparison.

In a worst case scenario, maybe Goodell finds a way to punish him, after all the man is practically a dictator. He's mad with power. Even then though, I couldn't possibly see more than a 1-2 game suspension. I don't think we need to worry about that. It will take care of itself. It certainly isn't going to be a "6 game suspension" as another poster suggested.

 

[supafly]

Would you guess that it's good news for Dennard (& us), or bad news?

One thing that we definitely know is that both sides rested as of early in the morning, and that the judge ordered the jury to retire for the evening at 7pm local time. By my estimation that would give approx. 6-8 hrs of deliberations, meaning that they had some concerns, doubts, questions, and could not all get on the same page. Of course with 8 out of 12 of them women, who could find this as a shock?

The defense appears to have felt confident enough in providing reasonable doubt on Friday that they did not take advantage of Nebraska HC Bo Pelini being present in the court room. The thinking was that the defense was going to call him to the stand to testify as a character witness. It's possible that they may have felt what he had to say would not benefit them enough, but it's probable that they would have re-arranged some of his thoughts/wording and put him on the stand if they felt they needed to.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yes it does.

If a cop sees a crime committed they have the right to act. Do you mean to tell me this cop imagined Dennard turning around and punching him?

*sigh* Yes. Considering that the doctor's examination basically didn't support the claim of having been punched. No bruising. No concussion. And no forensic evidence that Dennard hit Kopsa. Only 2 minor scratches of indeterminate origin. Could the officer have been hit by a flailing arm as Dennard was trying to free himself from someone who had come up behind him and grabbed his arm? Sure. But from the testimony accounts, Kopsa didn't identify himself prior to grabbing Dennard from behind. In fact, Kopsa's testimony claims he walked so he was face to face with Dennard. The problem with that is two witnesses (the guy who Dennard supposedly hit and one of the guy's friends) both say that Kopsa came up behind Dennard. Which jives with Dennard's testimony.

Now, as for the cop seeing "a crime committed" and having a "right to act". That was never in question. What was in question was whether Officer Kopsa actually SAW Dennard do something or whether he just saw some pushing and shoving in a crosswalk from a distance and didn't know who had done what until he got there. The reality is that the video of the incident calls into question what the officer actually saw. The video was inconclusive as to what happened in the crosswalk and it was inconclusive as to whether or not Dennard actually hit the officer.

Now, a very plausible situation is that Kopsa came up behind Dennard and grabbed Dennard's left shoulder. Dennard, in turning to break free, turned counter-clockwise, flailing his left arm UP and out to break the hold and also bringing up his right arm into a ready position. Dennard's left arm could have hit the Officer Kopsa across the left side of his face. It could have LOOKED like Dennard was throwing a right hook from 50-70 ft away with other people around him.

It is very interesting that the 3 officers seem to have similar stories, even though Officer McBride and Officer Tran were 50-70 ft away and that the people closer to the situation have slightly different stories..

I'll be honest. Dennard should have been arrested for Disorderly conduct and Resisting arrest. The felony charge is BS and smacks of an officer who was embarrassed and decided to stick it to the kid.

 

[DaBruinz]

2 cops are lying that Dennard punched a police officer.

Its a conspiracy against Dennard.

Second officer says he saw Alfonzo Dennard punch a cop | ProFootballTalk

One officer who was 70 ft away at 2 am in a crowded area.

Yeah. Cops NEVER cover for one another.

 

[DaBruinz]

if convicted..how many games will he be suspended by the NFL...we talking 6 games here plus jail time if it comes down to it? That would really mean we need to keep talib or get another FA semi big name guy

None. This is an incident that occurred prior to his being in the employ of the NFL. And it's not like he didn't notify them immediately.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well this same cop says that he saw Dennard punch a guy in the face, when the "victim" here actually says it was lightly and in the chest.

And forensic evidence showed that Dennard only had his own blood on his hands. Not any from the "victim" or from the police officer.

But, who cares about little details like that.

OH, you forgot to mention that the "victim who was punched in the face" and his friend also contradicted Kopsa in how Kopsa approached Dennard. Kopsa said he approached Dennard face to face. The two claimed that Kopsa came up from behind Dennard..

But, yeah, cops never get things wrong...

 

[DaBruinz]

If Dennard is guilty, one might argue that Dennard lied to the nfl and various teams when he told them that he was innocent, and no criminal. This could then be considered an action worthy of penalty by the league.

How could one argue that Dennard lied to the NFL and various teams if the interviews occurred PRIOR to the incident. Which they ALL did. And it's not like Dennard hid the incident or denied that it occurred.

Your logic is majorly flawed.

 

[BrickPat]

And forensic evidence showed that Dennard only had his own blood on his hands. Not any from the "victim" or from the police officer.

But, who cares about little details like that.

OH, you forgot to mention that the "victim who was punched in the face" and his friend also contradicted Kopsa in how Kopsa approached Dennard. Kopsa said he approached Dennard face to face. The two claimed that Kopsa came up from behind Dennard..

But, yeah, cops never get things wrong...

Your conspiracy theories are quite entertaining.

They swabbed Dennard's hands for DNA? While I am not a cop in that state I've never heard of a DNA sample being submitted for testing on a simple A&B P/O case in the 25 years I've been on job. The time and expense of doing that over higher priority cases simply makes no sense and would be a story in and of itself.

I'm not saying the cop was bleeding or not...don't know wasn't there. I'm just casting serious doubt that this was done.

 

[BrickPat]

If Dennard is guilty, one might argue that Dennard lied to the nfl and various teams when he told them that he was innocent, and no criminal. This could then be considered an action worthy of penalty by the league.

He wouldn't be lying...innocent unless/until proven guilty in court. A simple arrest does not mean one is a criminal unless they have been convicted- that has not happened as of this date (and may not happen at all). BTW a not guilty finding does not necessarily mean innocent...just means the DA did not provide a strong enough case to establish proof beyond a reasonable doubt (see OJ).

More than a few current NFL players were arrested at one point before the draft, it's not a big deal. Even if Dennard is convicted, so what? He will get zero jail time as a first offender and the NFL would be hypocritical in that there are players who've been convicted of more serious offenses who suit up every Sunday.

 

[Jackson 2]

Would you guess that it's good news for Dennard (& us), or bad news?

I think the longer they deliberate, the better for Dennard. But, honestly, who knows? I just have a gut feeling that it may not end really well for him. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Triumph]

One officer who was 70 ft away at 2 am in a crowded area.

Yeah. Cops NEVER cover for one another.

The cops should be on trial and not Dennard.

Too bad Johnny Cochran isnt still around.

 

[Jackson 2]

If Dennard is guilty, one might argue that Dennard lied to the nfl and various teams when he told them that he was innocent, and no criminal. This could then be considered an action worthy of penalty by the league.

A real stretch, in my opinion, but when he was interviewed by teams, he was not an employee of the NFL. Also, even after arrested, he was still presumed innocent by law, so why would it be a lie for Dennard to claim his innocence when in the eyes of the legal system he was innocent at that time?

 

[Lamanai]

I think the longer they deliberate, the better for Dennard. But, honestly, who knows? I just have a gut feeling that it may not end really well for him. Hope I'm wrong.

Could see this ending as 30 days + fine.