DRAFT DAY DISCUSSION A tale of a draft SQUANDERED....

[jsull87]

Did we get a trophy for that 14-2 season? I don't recall BB adressing the needs that lead us to another playoff failure.

neither did 31 other teams. I love kens posts during the season and respect him. But Drafting an OT at 17 when matt light is a FA, and a CB/FS when this is the last year for Merriweather and 3rd CB's are more and more important in the league and vereen in the late second i believe all 3 will contribute from day 1. So althought i know he's not a chicken little the premise of the post is very down when we haven't even given this class a chance to show us why BB drafted them. My 2n'd point is i also got the feeling like in 2007 BB doesn't like this years draft... Just a hunch with no basis other than every chance we saw he got to trade down and out he did (suprisingly enough not 33 tho? which leads me to believe we weren't offered enough to pass up Dowling)

I understand peoples disapointment but i would ask we temper it rather than cry "OMG OMG OMG the end is here".

 

[skinnydog]

Great post this puts it perspective. I would like to see all the DB's we've taken in the same time frame. If finding prospects for the D-Line and OLB are so hard to find for this system now a days maybe the system needs to be tweaked. The Pats as far as i know are the only team that uses this 3-4 read and react defense. GB, NO, SD, Dallas, and the Rats all use a variant of the 3-4 and ALL are very effective, GB and NO have won the last Two SB's obviously. Is BB being to stubborn? It wouldn't be the first time a great coach has been

Well, I wonder the same thing. What kind of system is it when you can't find anyone to play it except mediocre guys like Nincovich etc. I know Cunningham was a second rounder last year, I didn't see anything from him last year that leads me to believe he will suddenly morph into a feared edge rusher.

 

[Froob]

I guess we have to wait for FA but it's going to be hard to watch this team on 3rd and long again if they don't pick up anybody and Cunningham doesn't make a huge jump. I don't want to see stuff like this again next season
YouTube - Colt McCOY vs New England Patriots 2010 Week 9

 

[scout]

The Patriots were 14-2 last year while starting 3 rookies on defense. In addition they had to play a number of defensive back-ups during the play-offs due to injuries. In the last few years, the team has been rebuilt. This team will contend for the Superbowl for a long time. In regards to the pass rusher; BB will pull that trigger when he's ready. That might mean trading picks into the future and passing up on the popular choice. He doesn't really care what Mel thinks, nor what some of the members here post. It will be funny to read the furture posts of these disgruntled draft experts.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Fair enough point on the Jets thing. Now to the OT.

Can we agree that Light was good enough to hold the fort, and that, assuming J. Kraft wasn't lying today, the Patriots want him back, which makes Solder largely an expensive cheerleader for the next year or two?

Somehow I don't think you're going to find a lot of agreement with that prediction.

 

[TruthSeeker]

OK, it's been 3 years since the 2008 draft. Conventional wisdom is that we now have enough information to evaluate that draft. Any takers?

 

[skinnydog]

OK, it's been 3 years since the 2008 draft. Conventional wisdom is that we now have enough information to evaluate that draft. Any takers?

I'm sure the draft was perfect. BB made the picks.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy,

in the weeks leading up to the draft, I'd made many comments about the Patriots moving up to 6 and I know that 17+28 is equal value based on the chart. I'm throwing 33+92 out there instead of 28 because (a) it provides more value on the chart, and (b) assuming the draft is so weak, we'd prefer to stay at 28 than 33 and 92. Obviously, Atlanta being at 27 had to give up a #1 next year to get so high.

As I mentioned in another post though, I'm not sure Julio Jones or any of the DE/OLB conversion guys were worth such a move up.

But that doesn't add up to what Atlanta paid.

 

[Ring 6]

Great post this puts it perspective. I would like to see all the DB's we've taken in the same time frame. If finding prospects for the D-Line and OLB are so hard to find for this system now a days maybe the system needs to be tweaked. The Pats as far as i know are the only team that uses this 3-4 read and react defense. GB, NO, SD, Dallas, and the Rats all use a variant of the 3-4 and ALL are very effective, GB and NO have won the last Two SB's obviously. Is BB being to stubborn? It wouldn't be the first time a great coach has been

NO plays a 43.
Before you say you want to change the system because we can't find players that fit it (the way you want them to) you should look at the results. Profootbalreference.com has a nice tool where you can pick any period of time and rank all the teams in any stats. Put in 2000-2010 and see how the system checks out.

 

[Ring 6]

I guess we have to wait for FA but it's going to be hard to watch this team on 3rd and long again if they don't pick up anybody and Cunningham doesn't make a huge jump. I don't want to see stuff like this again next season
YouTube - Colt McCOY vs New England Patriots 2010 Week 9

Really? You are saying the team sucks because of pass defense in one game?
Please find me all of the teams that had no games as bad or worse than we did vs Colt McCoy. I'll help you. Here is the list:

 

[eom]

The CBSdraftScout site reckons that the NFL advisory committee gave Ridley a third round grade.

Stevan Ridley, LSU, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Not that it matters now, I guess.
He's part of the RB platoon it seems for the foreseeable future and good luck to him.

Given a third-round grade by the NFL Advisory Committee, Ridley could prove one of the best values of the 2011 draft for any team looking to add a physical presence in the backfield.

lawl.......oh no they di'int!!

somebody better e-mail the nfl advisory committee that one guy's fantasy football link.

 

[eom]

Bear in mind, I'm rationalizing this a bit as well, but assuming Belichick has not lost his mind, here's what I assume he's thinking:

The only thing preventing Mallet from being a 1st round draft choice are the character issues.

Assuming this kid has some drive and wants to make some money, he's presented with the opportunity of a lifetime to straighten up and fly right with the Patriots.

The guy doesn't even need to play - if he behaves he could well be worth a 1st round draft choice via trade.

Trading #74 for a first round draft pick is something that might be considered "value" by Belichick.

these kind of posts are a little ridiculous.

first of all, his value isn't going to go through the roof by sitting on the bench, and secondly I can tell you for a fact belichick is not rostering players to hothouse them for future trades.

not only that, but a 2011 3rd traded into 2012 usually gets you a 2nd --- that 2012 second traded into 2013 might get you a 1st.
it's not like you have to draft a guy to eat roster space for 2 years in some kind of machiavellian scheme.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I guess with the recent whiffs on McCourty, Mayo, Hernandez, Gronkowski, et al., it's pretty well established the Pats can't draft.

Oh that's right, there's a guy here who wants to talk about the 08 draft... also, other guys drafted guys who panned out better than the guys we drafted sometimes.

Case closed.

Will you ******s ever stop with this crap every year???

I am really, really impressed that the Steelers drafted Palomalu, I really am. I am truly aghast that we didnt draft Asomogha or your favorite edge rusher or running back or whatever. It baffles me that in hindsight other people picked guys who panned out and we picked someone else.

Everybody else has the same problem, of course, so that gives me a little bit of confidence.

This just gives me a headache. The Pats have always had a mix of good draft value and good free agent infusions... God help us with you guys if we ever have a losing season.

 

[JoeShmoe]

I guess with the recent whiffs on McCourty, Mayo, Hernandez, Gronkowski, et al., it's pretty well established the Pats can't draft.

Oh that's right, there's a guy here who wants to talk about the 08 draft... also, other guys drafted guys who panned out better than the guys we drafted sometimes.

Case closed.

Will you ******s ever stop with this crap every year???

I am really, really impressed that the Steelers drafted Palomalu, I really am. I am truly aghast that we didnt draft Asomogha or your favorite edge rusher or running back or whatever. It baffles me that in hindsight other people picked guys who panned out and we picked someone else.

Everybody else has the same problem, of course, so that gives me a little bit of confidence.

This just gives me a headache. The Pats have always had a mix of good draft value and good free agent infusions... God help us with you guys if we ever have a losing season.

This x 1000

 

[Real World]

I'm not ready to jump off a cliff anytime soon, but I'm very underwhelmed by the Patriots draft this year. I totally loved last years draft class. Spikes was someone I was hoping for, Gronk and Hernandez I liked as well, while Cunningham represented a step toward addressing the pass rush. This year, while I like the Solder pick, the rest have me extremely underwhelmed.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Overacting breeds this time of year...every year.

We will have the same morons who will be surprised when Ridley runs for 700 yards this year and will be the same I told you so people when Mallett throws his first INT in preseason

 

[DaBruinz]

When we look back on this draft in a few years it will probably be looked at as the point in history that marked the beginning of the end of the Patriots run of excellence. Yes it might take a few years, but THIS was the point where it started to go down hill.

There is NOTHING I can think of that explains what happened tonight. Forget about all the missed opportunities we had in the first round. We DID end up with a good player, even if it wasn't at the position of our perceived need. But how can you explain the following.

1. Ras I Dowling at #33 OK you can rationalize the picking ANOTHER CB - He's big, he's versatile, he's got great straight line speed. However he has a LONG history of injuries, a lack of quickness, and reportedly is just an average tackler. Still I could have lived with the pick.

What I can't live with is the squandering of the draft position. I find it impossible to believe that we couldn't find a trade partner willing to take the spot. Bill admitted that the Pats had gotten offered on Thursday for the pick. Yet somehow BB felt it was THAT urgent to pick a guy in a position of great depth with a pick that had premium value as trade bait....for a guy many thought was a 3rd round pick.

But then it gets worse.....

Vereen was one of the RB's I'd come like...but in the 3rd or 4th round, NOT as the 2nd RB to come off the board. He's a nice addition, but he's not a guy that will move the chains with tough 3rd and short runs. That was Daniel Thomas, or Mike Leshure. But OK, BB has surprised us with guys who we thought were picked too early, but turned out great like Volmer. At this point I'm not happy, but I'm still accepting.

But then it gets worse....

We pick up ANOTHER RB - Its as if BB is admitting I spent a premium pick on a guy who I know is 3rd down player, so I have go get ANOTHER RB who CAN pick up those "move the chains" tough runs

But then it gets worse.....much worse.

So instead of picking up someone who can help our Defensive front 7, or compete for the open spot at G, or be the guy who can stretch a defense; he picks up a VERY questionable character guy who in his best usage will be to be traded in 3 or 4 years for a high draft pick. While, if I were Ryan Mallet, I'd be THRILLED to be going to a team where I can spend the next 3 years maturing as a person, and learning the game from the best, it does NOTHING to make this a better team for the foreseeable future....NOTHING GREAT pick for Ryan Mallet, HORRIBLE pick for the Pats

BTW - the more I think about Mallet the LESS I understand it. If you want to think of a QB who most resembles him in style and physical skills, isn't it Drew Bledsoe. He's not the guy who will step back and throw bubble screens. He's not mobile in the pocket. He's not athletic. He's a tall guy with a big arm who throws the ball down the field. In other words he's DREW.....at best. Didn't we already decide that is NOT the kind of QB we like.

And haven't we tried this experiment before with the kid who was the MVP in Europe, and Kevin O'Connor......and haven't they BOTH failed. The more I think about it the LESS I can understand or justify it.

I don't even care who the damned 3rd pick in the round is. It will probably end up being the best FG holder available. Doesn't matter. All I know is that THIS great and rare opportunity to add significant IMPACT players to an already very good team has been lost.

NO impact at OLB

NO impact at on the DL

NO impact at WR

NO ONE to replace Steven Neal at G

But we do now have the most physically talented #3 QB in the NFL

The Pass rush isn't any better

The TEAM its self isn't any better. 6 picks in the first 100 and the team isn't materially better than the one that started the damned draft.

All we got is a LT for the future, and more depth at RB and the DB. BUT NO ONE who makes the team better for next year.

Just one potential starter and he probably would benefit if he didn't have to start. He may have all pro potential, but NEXT YEAR, he isn't going to be better than the All pro he replaces......And as for the rest....totally unexplainable.

Bill might recover some in FA. Maybe that was the plan all along to address the rush. But it STILL wouldn't explain the squandering to so many picks at so premium a position. WHAT A WASTE.

A draft that was SQUANDERED.....perhaps the beginning of the end?

PFK -
I am surprised to see you lament as such. And get your facts wrong.

Vereen wasn't the 2nd RB off the board. He was the 3rd. After Ingram and Ryan Williams.

As for Mallett, I believe your analysis is almost entirely incorrect. While he's not Kevin Kolb or David Garrard, his mobility is very similar to Brady's. His field vision, while not as good as Brady's is very good. He can hit his receivers in stride and is very accurate on short to intermediate routes. Again, very similar to Brady. Mallett will be a work in progress for the Pats. He'll be the 3rd QB behind Hoyer and Brady and could be ready by the time Brady is ready to hang them up. The other thing you are overlooking is that he'd going to have a chip on his shoulder. Here is a kid who was being talked about in the Top 5 up to a week before the draft. And what better mentor to have than the QB with the Biggest chip on his shoulder in Brady.

Now, I'm not sure where you got the idea that this draft was all that deep with "HIGH IMPACT PLAYERS", but it wasn't. Many people have said there were very few ELITE players in this draft and that this draft only had depth at certain positions like DE, DT, OT, and CB. Beyond that, it was going to be slim pickings.

You also are over-looking the fact that the Pats added a 1st and 2nd round pick in next year's draft. One that is supposed to be a lot better talent and depth wise.

The only pick I don't understand is Ridley. Especially after adding Vereen. That's the pick that made me go "HMM"..

 

[patsox23]

Quite possibly the most nimrod-ish statement in the whole thread, and that's saying something:

"Can we agree that Light was good enough to hold the fort, and that, assuming J. Kraft wasn't lying today, the Patriots want him back, which makes Solder largely an expensive cheerleader for the next year or two?"

NO. We CAN'T agree. The idea that Jonathan Kraft's comments mean that Light WILL stay and start over a #17 overall pick that BB came out and said would be looked at as ONLY a Left Tackle -- that is asinine. And it negates anything even mildly "legit adjacent" that you may have inadvertantly posted in 24 pages and counting...

 

[PatsFanInVa]

700's not enough, dum dum. 1000's not enough. Not when a guy playing in a totally different system that by the way doesn't have the GOAT QB in the league rushes for 1700 or 2000.

Every year's draft is not the be all and end all, it's pieces in a puzzle... and whatever we all "agree" on the outside is what we HAVE to do, on the inside evidently they're more concerned that we 1) protect Brady, 2) be able to expend faulk (if not now, soon anyway,) and 3) pound the damn ball when we have a lead.

Unless you guys think we've never had a big lead and lost it very quickly?

Here's a thought. While we're weeping and gnashing our teeth on how cool it would be to sack the other guy's QB, and now we can't do it, maybe after tortuous hours in the film room the guys in Foxboro have concluded the other guy can't pass the ball when he doesn't have it.

Here's another thought. You look at pre-draft "grades" and assume you know that since other outsiders all agree that's where a pick is going to go, but it's possible that it's a whole 'nother world inside NFL clubhouses.

DOH!

You look at the backs BB wants, and you say "why?" Well, the fits to the system are pretty obvious to me. The next question is "why now?"

THe answer is that every draftnik that thought Mallet was a first rounder back a couple months ago were wrong, and every draftnik that thouht Mallet was a second rounder this weekend were wrong. Mallet was a third rounder, because we picked him in the third.

Same goes for second rounders that someone else said would last into the 3rd or even the 4th. You'll never know. My guess is the Pats thought of them as picks that would not be there when we wanted them to fall.

But of course, since someone else didn't grab them (because we did,) we don't know where they would have gone otherwise (despite your various protestations based -- AGAIN -- on what other outsiders say.)

RW, at least you are taking a realistic approach, liking some drafts and not liking others, assuming you're reporting your last-year reaction accurately.

But the pop-in-for-the-draft crowd is just ******ed, to me.

I guess I'm kool-aid drinker who thinks having the best w-l record over a decade, 4 SB appearances and 3 wins, and a universally acknowledged shot of going the distance every year makes me sort of dumb about it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

PFK -


The only pick I don't understand is Ridley. Especially after adding Vereen. That's the pick that made me go "HMM"..

Morris, Taylor and Faulk all may be gone next year. Woodhead had one excellent year and depending on how FA goes, BJGE could be gone too.

We can debate need vs draft slot vs player all day but based on the roster needs for the 2012 season, drafting two RBs makes sense.