A Frustrating Observation On N'Keal Harry

[TheRainMaker]

They're winning games because JoeJuan, Uche, Winovich...and are playing well.

None of them are playing well.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Pats did ok getting Branch and Edelman during periods when the current oc was not here.

"Here" as in on the staff or as a OC? Because he was there in 2002.

 

[Wozzy]

None of them are playing well.

Not playing and “not playing well” are not the same thing. The Pats are the #1 defense in the NFL, they can afford to bring young players along at a pace of their choosing.

 

[Toofy]

Harry has taught us a lesson. Never draft wr who cannot get separation no matter how tall they are . And please run an IQ test before we draft TE and WR unless they are Tyreek hill clone.

We have needs at OL, linebackers, Speedy WR , rookie redshirt Running back and possibly safety .

We will not have Harris for 5th season.

I would like them to draft the best available linebacker or Offensive lineman in round 1 and 2.

Round 3 go for wide receiver from division 2 school who has elusive speed , great separation and played behind a bad quarterback so that his numbers are not inflated . I want them to scout for these hidden gems because the best talents would have gone earlier. We can possibly get our hunter renfrow here..

What about skyy Moore? Has 4.2 speed and is mostly a day 3 pick.

 

[Brotherblues]

Not playing and “not playing well” are not the same thing. The Pats are the #1 defense in the NFL, they can afford to bring young players along at a pace of their choosing.

You literally said they were playing and playing well.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Potentially a OT too, if Brown isn't back (and Wynn on the last year of his deal). It's always the double edged sword with the draft: It feels like you have a lot of holes every year, but that also means there's guaranteed to be talent available at your pick for a position you could use.

Agree. Wynn, Owenu, Andrews and Shaq are locked up for 2022 but we all know Wynn is sketchy.

 

[n6249c]

Good decision by Jakobi.

Healthy scratch N'Keal Harry's ineffectiveness is magnified in his absence

 

[DropKickFlutie]

"Here" as in on the staff or as a OC? Because he was there in 2002.

He was a minor assistant in 2002. Less able to do harm. No coincidence the Pats' best WR/TE picks (Branch, Givens, Edelman, Gronk, Graham) were from 2001-2004 and 2009-2012.

 

[Wozzy]

You literally said they were playing and playing well.

All three players have shown flashes in their short time here, it's why they're still on the team. Just because the team has really good players ahead of them is not an indictment of them as players. Braxton Berrios is a great example of a player needing time to develop.

Year one: Foxboro flu, he's not going to contribute to a Super Bowl winning roster.
Year two: He hasn't developed as quickly as they hoped, he's muffing punts and kickoffs. He gets cut.
Year three: He begins to learn the return game and as a slot WR on a bad team, he is okay but otherwise unimpressive.
Year four: He makes the Pro Bowl

A championship level team going all in to win doesn't have the time or means to wait for this player to develop. The Patriots didn't even draft players in 2017. They can't hide Berrios on the practice squad because other teams have scouting programs also. The Patriots in 2020 and 2021 are a rebuilding team, every move they make is not based on the fact they have a 41 year old QB and "win now" is the prime directive. They're not borrowing from future cap space to make it happen.

Draft picks are unreliable, the average career lasts three years, the majority of them fail and WR has one of the highest failure rates in the entire draft... this is true of all drafts, not just Bill's.

 

[PatsFan2]

Good decision by Jakobi.

Healthy scratch N'Keal Harry's ineffectiveness is magnified in his absence

And lucky for our Patriots. J Meyers takes some of the sting out of the Harry Disaster. Can't figure why this Team didn't draft A.J. Brown... wait even he can't figure out why. This is Bigger than me and even Harry.

 

[PatsFan2]

All three players have shown flashes in their short time here, it's why they're still on the team. Just because the team has really good players ahead of them is not an indictment of them as players. Braxton Berrios is a great example of a player needing time to develop.

Year one: Foxboro flu, he's not going to contribute to a Super Bowl winning roster.
Year two: He hasn't developed as quickly as they hoped, he's muffing punts and kickoffs. He gets cut.
Year three: He begins to learn the return game and as a slot WR on a bad team, he is okay but otherwise unimpressive.
Year four: He makes the Pro Bowl

A championship level team going all in to win doesn't have the time or means to wait for this player to develop. The Patriots didn't even draft players in 2017. They can't hide Berrios on the practice squad because other teams have scouting programs also. The Patriots in 2020 and 2021 are a rebuilding team, every move they make is not based on the fact they have a 41 year old QB and "win now" is the prime directive. They're not borrowing from future cap space to make it happen.

Draft picks are unreliable, the average career lasts three years, the majority of them fail and WR has one of the highest failure rates in the draft... this is true of all teams, not just Bill's.

On your last statement no Team has Sucked more at Drafting WR's than the N. E. Patriots. And they have used good Draft capital too a plethora of Second Round picks. Hopefully they get Mac a guy or two who really threatens the Defense the kid have Brady like tools.

 

[203Pat]

Harry was a bust, a bad pick.

They're winning games because Mac, Barmore, Duggar, Onwenu, Bentley, Damien Harris, Gunner, Meyers, Wynn, Stevenson, JC Jackson, Myles Bryant, JoeJuan, Uche, Jake Bailey, Asiasi, Winovich, Wilkerson and more were acquired by BB as rookies and are playing well.

The notion that Bill is bad at spotting talent has been blown out of the water.

Gunner has been okay, Wynn has been bad, Joejuan was a healthy scratch yesterday, Bailey has been bad this year, Assisi might not even exist, and Wilkerson caught his first pass yesterday. These are guys we are propping up this year?

Barmore has been a home run, Mac looks like he could end up being a high end starter, and Stevenson looks like a great part of a one two punch at RB. Last year's class looks decent with Dugger starting to come into his own and Onwenu as a versatile starting level offensive lineman but the rest of the class can hardly see the field. The drafts have been trending in the right direction but to say that JoeJuan and Asiasi and some of those other guys are "playing well" is a new level of homerism.

 

[Kontradiction]

Harry sucks. Terrible pick by Coach Bill. One of his worst, actually. Kid sucks bad.

 

[RIpats88]

Respectfully strongly disagree. Never while the current oc is here. Pats suck at drafting WR and CB. 0/3 at WR and 0/8 at CB with high picks since 2004. If we have a different oc, then.... maybe. Pats did ok getting Branch and Edelman during periods when the current oc was not here.

I mean it doesn't have to be a high pick. But I think this team is lacking that high end talent like a Gronk, Edelman, welker who always can get open and teams can't scheme for.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I mean it doesn't have to be a high pick. But I think this team is lacking that high end talent like a Gronk, Edelman, welker who always can get open and teams can't scheme for.

6th or 7th rounders sure, go nuts.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The notion that Bill is bad at spotting talent

It's not as simplistic as this.
1. BB has maybe the best 20 yr record compared to any other franchise at talent acquisition.
2. A lot of it is bolstered by getting several all star talents as UDFA or very low picks.
3. And added with fantastic drafts from 2001-2004, 2009-2012. When Floyd Reese was here, or Pioli/Weiss, or Eliot Wolf recently.
4. But also really crappy drafts (no need to defend like a biased homer) from 2005-2008 and 2013-2019 with caserio/mcdaniels. A lot of bust picks

 

[Wozzy]

Gunner has been okay, Wynn has been bad, Joejuan was a healthy scratch yesterday, Bailey has been bad this year, Assisi might not even exist, and Wilkerson caught his first pass yesterday. These are guys we are propping up this year?

Barmore has been a home run, Mac looks like he could end up being a high end starter, and Stevenson looks like a great part of a one two punch at RB. Last year's class looks decent with Dugger starting to come into his own and Onwenu as a versatile starting level offensive lineman but the rest of the class can hardly see the field. The drafts have been trending in the right direction but to say that JoeJuan and Asiasi and some of those other guys are "playing well" is a new level of homerism.

Gunner in an All Pro caliber return man, you call him “okay.”

Wynn has had issues staying healthy and this year has been mistake prone like the rest of the team, besides his health nobody complained about Wynn’s performance for years prior to this because he was very good.

Joejuan played well early in the season as a replacement when Mills missed a game and as a CB for larger receivers on opposing depth charts. He’s a big guy, they can’t exactly play him in the slot against shrimps. Not sure he has regressed or it’s a case of matchups.

Asiasi is the third TE behind two really good TE’s, he’s young, that’s about it. Wilkerson is a developmental player who got his first opportunity yesterday and played great.

If you look at everything through a negative lens where even good performances are bad then don’t be surprised when objective posters call you a negative nancy. Take your zoloft.

 

[Wozzy]

It's not as simplistic as this.
1. BB has maybe the best 20 yr record compared to any other franchise at talent acquisition.
2. A lot of it is bolstered by getting several all star talents as UDFA or very low picks.
3. And added with fantastic drafts from 2001-2004, 2009-2012. When Floyd Reese was here, or Pioli/Weiss, or Eliot Wolf recently.
4. But also really crappy drafts (no need to defend like a biased homer) from 2005-2008 and 2013-2019 with caserio/mcdaniels. A lot of bust picks

Harris, Duggar, Onwenu, Bailey, Gunner, Meyers, Jakob Johnson, Wynn, JC Jackson are some of our best players… all acquired as rookies before Wolf was hired this season. Stop sniffing glue with your weird conspiracy theories about who makes decisions in the Patriots back offices… something you know zero about.

 

[203Pat]

Gunner in an All Pro caliber return man, you call him “okay.”

Wynn has had issues staying healthy and this year has been mistake prone like the rest of the team, besides his health nobody complained about Wynn’s performance for years prior to this because he was very good.

Joejuan played well early in the season as a replacement when Mills missed a game and as a CB for larger receivers on opposing depth charts. He’s a big guy, they can’t exactly play him in the slot against shrimps. Not sure he has regressed or it’s a case of matchups.

Asiasi is the third TE behind two really good TE’s, he’s young, that’s about it. Wilkerson is a developmental player who got his first opportunity yesterday and played great.

If you look at everything through a negative lens where even good performances are bad then don’t be surprised when objective posters call you a negative nancy. Take your zoloft.

You said are playing well. As in currently. Not years past.

Gunner was an all-pro last year. He has been average this year.

Wynn has been banged up and a penalty machine on top of being a major liability in multiple games this year.

Yes Joejuan played so well early on that the coaching staff decided to slowly decrease his snaps from week 9 until making him a healthy scratch the last two games.

Asiasi has played in one single game this year. 12 snaps, 0 targets. Not sure how that counts as "playing well"

Wilkerson looked good yesterday and the thought was "Why wasn't he playing over Harry earlier?" Seems like a pretty valid question when you watch him catch half as many touchdowns in one game has Harry has in his entire career.

This team has far exceeded most people's expectations and there looks to be some solid young players to build around but to claim that Joejuan and some of these other guys are "playing well" is asinine. At this point you're either trolling or you've reached a previously thought to be unattainable level of homerism.

 

[Big Bucks]

Can we imagine that we drafted Allen Lazard and we are signing him to a great new deal. If it wasn't for Adams, he would be getting 7 catches a game regular and a superstar status. Lazard is a free agent and played his first contract literally on peanuts.. Packers will be 40m over the cap with no moves and have to give Adams the Franchise tag at 19m but wants to be paid top WR in the league. Trading Rodgers pre june saves 19, post June saves 26.. so no savings there.

Please sign Lazard so I can forget Harry. Does everything you'd wish Harry did.