PostGame Thread 2024 OFFICIAL PostGame Thread: Week 13 - Patriots lose to Colts 25-24

[Rob0729]

Some thoughts. Haven't read this thread. So sorry for redundancy.

- I am really enjoying the progression of Drake Maye. I think his ceiling is Josh Allen. I don't know if he will ever get even close to that point. But he is far, far closer to Josh Allen at this point in his career than the actual Josh Allen was two years into his career.
- The Patriots, now that they are officially eliminated, need to take the training wheels off the guy completely. They are still afraid to put the ball in his hands in certain situations and it is hurting them. They are running the ball too much to the team's detriment at times.
- That said. Gibson has been a very good free agent pick up for the Pats. His overall stats aren't all that impressive, but he is a damn effective #2/change of pace RB.
- The Pats need a real X WR. A true #1. Whether it is Tee Higgins or trading for an elite WR in trade (not sure who) or drafting with their first pick. It is really hurting them in the red zone. Other than Hooper and Henry, there is no big body to worry about in those tight spaces to go over a defender for the ball.
- I still cannot get upset about losses this year. Yes, the Pats should probably have won this game and gave it way with stupid mistakes, but all I care about is the progression of Drake Maye. Going 6-11 or 5-12 vs 3-14 or 4-13 isn't going to change anything on this team. It is all about Maye.
- I have seen people on the internet criticize Mayo for not challenging this catch. But it was a pretty clear cut catch. Yes, the ball can hit the ground and move and still be a catch as long as the receiver maintains control of the ball. The receiver had control of the ball all the way through the catch. And the Pats ended up needing all their timeouts in this game. So they couldn't have afforded to lose the challenge.



- I still have a hard time pinning down this defense. They seemed to have played better than the score suggested, but they also caved at all the wrong times. That final Colts drive was a disaster.
- What happened to Kyle Dugger? He has been a shell of himself all year. Was he just a product of schemes under Belichick with Mayo and Steve scheming him up? Is the lack of talent around him hurting him?
- Alex Austin might be a find. I don't think he will ever be a great CB, but for a seventh round pick he is exceeding expectations.

 

[KCSVEN]

Thanks that is great.

I was curious how the 2007 Pats were built so went and looked up all the real contributors and how they were acquired.
-Had to hit in the 1st round
-Get a few guys in rounds after round 1
-Trade picks for players
-Fill in solid players with other draft picks and free agents.
-Moss, Welker, Light, Mankins, Harrison, Wilfork, Seymour with Brady were the ones that made that team elite, all free agents trades or 1st round picks outside of Light as a 2nd, and of course Brady.

Highlighted were Pro Bowl in 2007, Seymour was Pro Bowl all 5 years before and Welker was many years after in a row, Dillon never played but on the roster I looked at pre-season he was on it.

 

[turkeyneck]

Mayo doesn't seem like X's And O's guy like BB: he's been exposed.

Mayo doesn't handle anything involving cerebration well.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

- I have seen people on the internet criticize Mayo for not challenging this catch. But it was a pretty clear cut catch. Yes, the ball can hit the ground and move and still be a catch as long as the receiver maintains control of the ball. The receiver had control of the ball all the way through the catch. And the Pats ended up needing all their timeouts in this game. So they couldn't have afforded to lose the challenge.

Rob, watch that GIF again slower. The ball bounces before he cradles it in his hand. In other words, the 2nd time it hit the ground, it could have very well met your criteria for a catch… But that’s completely moot because he never possessed it at the 1st bounce.

 

[PatsFan2]

Some thoughts. Haven't read this thread. So sorry for redundancy.

- I am really enjoying the progression of Drake Maye. I think his ceiling is Josh Allen. I don't know if he will ever get even close to that point. But he is far, far closer to Josh Allen at this point in his career than the actual Josh Allen was two years into his career.
- The Patriots, now that they are officially eliminated, need to take the training wheels off the guy completely. They are still afraid to put the ball in his hands in certain situations and it is hurting them. They are running the ball too much to the team's detriment at times.
- That said. Gibson has been a very good free agent pick up for the Pats. His overall stats aren't all that impressive, but he is a damn effective #2/change of pace RB.
- The Pats need a real X WR. A true #1. Whether it is Tee Higgins or trading for an elite WR in trade (not sure who) or drafting with their first pick. It is really hurting them in the red zone. Other than Hooper and Henry, there is no big body to worry about in those tight spaces to go over a defender for the ball.
- I still cannot get upset about losses this year. Yes, the Pats should probably have won this game and gave it way with stupid mistakes, but all I care about is the progression of Drake Maye. Going 6-11 or 5-12 vs 3-14 or 4-13 isn't going to change anything on this team. It is all about Maye.
- I have seen people on the internet criticize Mayo for not challenging this catch. But it was a pretty clear cut catch. Yes, the ball can hit the ground and move and still be a catch as long as the receiver maintains control of the ball. The receiver had control of the ball all the way through the catch. And the Pats ended up needing all their timeouts in this game. So they couldn't have afforded to lose the challenge.



- I still have a hard time pinning down this defense. They seemed to have played better than the score suggested, but they also caved at all the wrong times. That final Colts drive was a disaster.
- What happened to Kyle Dugger? He has been a shell of himself all year. Was he just a product of schemes under Belichick with Mayo and Steve scheming him up? Is the lack of talent around him hurting him?
- Alex Austin might be a find. I don't think he will ever be a great CB, but for a seventh round pick he is exceeding expectations.

Even the Defense knows we don't have a prayer in the RZ with these bunch of WR's. That's why I'm leaning towards the 6'4 Higgins along with the 6'5 Tetairoa McMillan... Drake Maye can play fetch go get it with them.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Some thoughts. Haven't read this thread. So sorry for redundancy.

- I am really enjoying the progression of Drake Maye. I think his ceiling is Josh Allen. I don't know if he will ever get even close to that point. But he is far, far closer to Josh Allen at this point in his career than the actual Josh Allen was two years into his career.
- The Patriots, now that they are officially eliminated, need to take the training wheels off the guy completely. They are still afraid to put the ball in his hands in certain situations and it is hurting them. They are running the ball too much to the team's detriment at times.
- That said. Gibson has been a very good free agent pick up for the Pats. His overall stats aren't all that impressive, but he is a damn effective #2/change of pace RB.
- The Pats need a real X WR. A true #1. Whether it is Tee Higgins or trading for an elite WR in trade (not sure who) or drafting with their first pick. It is really hurting them in the red zone. Other than Hooper and Henry, there is no big body to worry about in those tight spaces to go over a defender for the ball.
- I still cannot get upset about losses this year. Yes, the Pats should probably have won this game and gave it way with stupid mistakes, but all I care about is the progression of Drake Maye. Going 6-11 or 5-12 vs 3-14 or 4-13 isn't going to change anything on this team. It is all about Maye.
- I have seen people on the internet criticize Mayo for not challenging this catch. But it was a pretty clear cut catch. Yes, the ball can hit the ground and move and still be a catch as long as the receiver maintains control of the ball. The receiver had control of the ball all the way through the catch. And the Pats ended up needing all their timeouts in this game. So they couldn't have afforded to lose the challenge.



- I still have a hard time pinning down this defense. They seemed to have played better than the score suggested, but they also caved at all the wrong times. That final Colts drive was a disaster.
- What happened to Kyle Dugger? He has been a shell of himself all year. Was he just a product of schemes under Belichick with Mayo and Steve scheming him up? Is the lack of talent around him hurting him?
- Alex Austin might be a find. I don't think he will ever be a great CB, but for a seventh round pick he is exceeding expectations.

you are probably right, that the catch probably would not have been overturned, but that’s not why mayo didn’t challenge it. his reasoning was embarrassing.

Mayo at press conference why he didn’t call the challenge : “We waited to see it on the replay, never saw the replay so we didn’t challenge it.”

What??? Did they fire the guy that looks at the replays from the booth and calls down if the HC should challenge? I believe that pink stripes used to do that for Bill, but somebody obviously took over for him after Ernie retired.

With regard to Dugger, it’s probably a combination of his ankle injury and the coaching staff not putting him in a position to succeed on a consistent basis. It’s probably the same reason that the defense as a whole is sh*tting the bed this year….Bill and Steve were the brains behind the defensive game plans and in-game adjustments, and the people that remain are not up to the task. Add in the fact that Steve was Dugger’s positional coach and there you have it.

For instance, why was he covering Pierce on the late touchdown? That was a mismatch with a predictable ending.

 

[sb1]

He is comparing his not taking a timeout to SB49 ??

The Royal "We"!

 

[Rob0729]

you are probably right, that the catch probably would not have been overturned, but that’s not why mayo didn’t challenge it. his reasoning was embarrassing.

Mayo at press conference why he didn’t call the challenge : “We waited to see it on the replay, never saw the replay so we didn’t challenge it.”

What??? Did they fire the guy that looks at the replays from the booth and calls down if the HC should challenge? I believe that pink stripes used to do that for Bill, but somebody obviously took over for him after Ernie retired.

With regard to Dugger, it’s probably a combination of his ankle injury and the coaching staff not putting him in a position to succeed on a consistent basis. It’s probably the same reason that the defense as a whole is sh*tting the bed this year….Bill and Steve were the brains behind the defensive game plans and in-game adjustments, and the people that remain are not up to the task. Add in the fact that Steve was Dugger’s positional coach and there you have it.

For instance, why was he covering Pierce on the late touchdown? That was a mismatch with a predictable ending.

I hate to say. It isn't uncommon for head coaches to not challenge a play because they don't see the replay. It is a valid excuse. I think Mayo might have just been better off not saying that. But I have seen Belichick not challenge a play that was clearly called wrong for the same reason. Every coach does it. If it is not clear in real time, it is a dangerous thing to challenge a call blindly just based on instinct.

And I have seen it the other way. A head coach challenging a call because his player adamantly claims the call is wrong and then it is clear on replay it was the right call.

I don't know if I blame Mayo for that. I would have blamed him for not challenging the call call on the Maye run that he did challenge. That one was a no brainer.

 

[upstater1]

He also provided this nugget on Harry:

“It also, as some saw it, led to misses like N’Keal Harry in 2019. Harry killed his 30 visit that spring and had a college coach, Todd Graham, who was close to Belichick. In that end, without more input from scouts who preferred Deebo Samuel and A.J. Brown, the coach wound up leaning on his own experience with Harry, rather than the red flags his scouts planted, and lost a golden opportunity to fill a hole on his roster.”

YIKES

Of course, what goes missing from all of this is this:

1. Were these scouts trustworthy when it came to WRs in the past?
2. Was Harry rated higher than the others and slated to go higher by the vast majority of people doing the analysis (again, the answer is YES, Harry wasn't a reach, he was mocked to go at #30 in the mock of mock drafts).
3. Did those scouts also recommend other WRs over Harry? Like any of the 5 WRs who busted between the Harry and the Metcalf pick?

Obviously Belichick blew this, but the context is much wider than what people make it out to be.

Never mind the fact that Deebo is considered a huge albatross of a contract now for a player that can't live up to it, and that AJ Brown didn't sign a second contract with the team that drafted him, and that he was making noise this year of leaving for yet another team.

 

[upstater1]

Some thoughts. Haven't read this thread. So sorry for redundancy.

- I am really enjoying the progression of Drake Maye. I think his ceiling is Josh Allen. I don't know if he will ever get even close to that point. But he is far, far closer to Josh Allen at this point in his career than the actual Josh Allen was two years into his career.
- The Patriots, now that they are officially eliminated, need to take the training wheels off the guy completely. They are still afraid to put the ball in his hands in certain situations and it is hurting them. They are running the ball too much to the team's detriment at times.
- That said. Gibson has been a very good free agent pick up for the Pats. His overall stats aren't all that impressive, but he is a damn effective #2/change of pace RB.
- The Pats need a real X WR. A true #1. Whether it is Tee Higgins or trading for an elite WR in trade (not sure who) or drafting with their first pick. It is really hurting them in the red zone. Other than Hooper and Henry, there is no big body to worry about in those tight spaces to go over a defender for the ball.
- I still cannot get upset about losses this year. Yes, the Pats should probably have won this game and gave it way with stupid mistakes, but all I care about is the progression of Drake Maye. Going 6-11 or 5-12 vs 3-14 or 4-13 isn't going to change anything on this team. It is all about Maye.
- I have seen people on the internet criticize Mayo for not challenging this catch. But it was a pretty clear cut catch. Yes, the ball can hit the ground and move and still be a catch as long as the receiver maintains control of the ball. The receiver had control of the ball all the way through the catch. And the Pats ended up needing all their timeouts in this game. So they couldn't have afforded to lose the challenge.



- I still have a hard time pinning down this defense. They seemed to have played better than the score suggested, but they also caved at all the wrong times. That final Colts drive was a disaster.
- What happened to Kyle Dugger? He has been a shell of himself all year. Was he just a product of schemes under Belichick with Mayo and Steve scheming him up? Is the lack of talent around him hurting him?
- Alex Austin might be a find. I don't think he will ever be a great CB, but for a seventh round pick he is exceeding expectations.

Announcers yesterday were repeatedly talking up Dugger for having a good game. He made several big tackles. Then there was the final play, and people think the game was bad.

I'm not seeing what you're seeing on that Colts catch. I see a ball hitting the ground and moving. It wasn't still, which is required.

 

[vicspats]

He is comparing his not taking a timeout to SB49 ??

How dumb. Putting himself in Bills shoes … that’s borderline shameful

 

[vicspats]

Some thoughts. Haven't read this thread. So sorry for redundancy.

- I am really enjoying the progression of Drake Maye. I think his ceiling is Josh Allen. I don't know if he will ever get even close to that point. But he is far, far closer to Josh Allen at this point in his career than the actual Josh Allen was two years into his career.
- The Patriots, now that they are officially eliminated, need to take the training wheels off the guy completely. They are still afraid to put the ball in his hands in certain situations and it is hurting them. They are running the ball too much to the team's detriment at times.
- That said. Gibson has been a very good free agent pick up for the Pats. His overall stats aren't all that impressive, but he is a damn effective #2/change of pace RB.
- The Pats need a real X WR. A true #1. Whether it is Tee Higgins or trading for an elite WR in trade (not sure who) or drafting with their first pick. It is really hurting them in the red zone. Other than Hooper and Henry, there is no big body to worry about in those tight spaces to go over a defender for the ball.
- I still cannot get upset about losses this year. Yes, the Pats should probably have won this game and gave it way with stupid mistakes, but all I care about is the progression of Drake Maye. Going 6-11 or 5-12 vs 3-14 or 4-13 isn't going to change anything on this team. It is all about Maye.
- I have seen people on the internet criticize Mayo for not challenging this catch. But it was a pretty clear cut catch. Yes, the ball can hit the ground and move and still be a catch as long as the receiver maintains control of the ball. The receiver had control of the ball all the way through the catch. And the Pats ended up needing all their timeouts in this game. So they couldn't have afforded to lose the challenge.



- I still have a hard time pinning down this defense. They seemed to have played better than the score suggested, but they also caved at all the wrong times. That final Colts drive was a disaster.
- What happened to Kyle Dugger? He has been a shell of himself all year. Was he just a product of schemes under Belichick with Mayo and Steve scheming him up? Is the lack of talent around him hurting him?
- Alex Austin might be a find. I don't think he will ever be a great CB, but for a seventh round pick he is exceeding expectations.

I totally agree that Maye has a pretty high ceiling. In my opinion that philosophy of “scheming” up a player doesn’t make sense. A player comes in with a set of skills. It is the coaches job to put them in the best position to win their battles. I believe they are running a poor defensive scheme this year, and it seems to be because our linebackers are slow. They absolutely seem out of position on many plays. I’m guessing they are running the wrong defenses st times. Covington had done a poor job it looks like. Injuries blah blah blah , it is the next man up

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Rob, watch that GIF again slower. The ball bounces before he cradles it in his hand. In other words, the 2nd time it hit the ground, it could have very well met your criteria for a catch… But that’s completely moot because he never possessed it at the 1st bounce.

The ball can shift in the hand on hitting the ground and not be considered a loss of control. His right hand never leaves the ball, despite the shift. It was ruled a catch and I doubt it would be overturned on review.

 

[PScottman]

Three to Four players would be considered a good Draft: this is beyond bad.

You have the expectations of a kid the day before Christmas. "Imma get the latest I-phone, and a PS5 Pro, and a new McLaren, and a...."

Perpetual disappointment would be a great new moniker and help the rest of us have appropriate expectations before reading your posts. No team gets "three to four" very good players in the overwhelming majority of drafts so why set that as your only acceptable outcome?

I guess maybe it could be that "very good" is defined more broadly in your dictionary, but based on your other post history if the player isn't an all-pro from snap number one in the NFL, they suck.

 

[Mack Herron]

From top to bottom the Patriots are a heaping mess. Except for Drake Maye.

 

[PScottman]

The difference maker is to get that elite talent and then its easier to fill in around them.

I would add the caveat that the "fill around them" counts almost as much. There can't be the high number of misses of this year of those free agent fill guys - there has to be some definitive, consistent role players (ex. Hooper vs. Okorafor as an example). The Elite core is indeed the MUST, but you can't just free wheel the rest either and assume success.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

I'm not seeing what you're seeing on that Colts catch. I see a ball hitting the ground and moving. It wasn't still, which is required.

That is incorrect. Read the official NFL rulebook, rule 8, section 1, article 3. The ball can shift on contact with the ground as long as the receiver regains control before the balls contacts the ground again. A shift does not automatically mean control has been lost. It would not have been overturned.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Are there examples of this working in the NFL?

If there are, I have never heard of it. Anyone?

 

[Hammer of Thor]

The ball can shift in the hand on hitting the ground and not be considered a loss of control. His right hand never leaves the ball, despite the shift. It was ruled a catch and I doubt it would be overturned on review.

You’re looking at the 2nd time it hits the ground. Watch the GIF again:

- ball hits right hand
- ball hits the ground
- ball bouces into left hand and player uses both right hand and left hand secure the ball
- player shifts ball to right hand, holds ball there the entire time
- ball hits the ground again, doesn’t shift
- player rolls which moves the ball away from the ground.

You’re absolutely correct about that 2nd time on the ground - if that were the only time it hit the ground, I’d say it was a clean catch. But it’s the 1st time that it hit the ground that’s problematic— he never had control, it literally bounced off his right hand and hit the ground.

 

[50-yard-line]

Just came in to say that I was thrilled to see Alex Austin out there yesterday.

There's your #2 corner opposite Gonzo, right there. All the tools.