PostGame Thread 2023 Week 2: Patriots Lose to Dolphins 24-17

[UGAPatsfan]

They're going to keep drafting quarterbacks. Always have. The last guy battled and held them off. Whether or not that continues remains to be seen. But I doubt that approach will change given the history.

In today’s NFL you gotta do it. Though…I recall Ron Wolf doing it decades ago before it was obvious

 

[QuantumMechanic]

And the fact they didn’t even measure. It was irrefutable to them

Measurements often aren't needed anymore. Somewhere the last 10+ years refs started mostly-but-not-always spotting the ball right on a yard line when a first down has been achieved, regardless of where the first-down-achieving play actually ended. Because of that no measurement is needed -- if the ball is spotted short of that yard line, even by a half-centimeter, it's not a first down.

Example:
* Line to gain is a team's own 29.
* A third down play takes the ball to the 29 1/4, so a first down.
* The refs will then spot the ball for the first down play with the nose of the ball right at either the 29 or the 30. Let's say it's the 30.
* Now we're at, say, 3rd and 2 on the 38 and when that play is run the linesmen spot the ball a centimeter short of the 40. They know it's short w/o having to measure. Same if the spot was a centimeter past the 40. They know it's a first down w/o having to measure.

I'm not bothered by them not measuring on that play. I am pissed off that NYC overturned the on-the-field mark of a first down even though there was no indisputable evidence whatsoever.

I'm only a little bit pissed off by that though because:
1) The refs gifted NE that touchdown when there were multiple blatant infractions on the play (OPI, ineligibles downfield, etc.)
2) I had virtually zero faith NE would have scored the tying TD even if the first down stood.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Get collins on the damned phone too nite

I do miss Hightower

 

[State]

Get onwenu in shape, hope mafi can handle RG

Onwenu looked overweight and out of shape. He was pulled in the second half for Mafi. I hope he wasn’t hurt.

I suspect he just ran out of gas.

Neither Onwenu nor Strange looked to be ready to go. But we had no choice.

Isaiah Wynn played well for them. Clearly better than Strange at LG. He’s a guy who we didn’t have the luxury of releasing.

Anderson was beaten like a drum all night. By a backup.

 

[Ian]

Game has evolved and you need to become a dual threat.

That's not the case. Mahomes is the only person that's worked out for in recent years with any long-term success. And he's the exception.

Asking a player to run around for 60 minutes and overcome bad protection or plays breaking down isn't sustainable. Unless you're a unicorn, which he is. Josh Allen is already having to evolve away from that, for the same reason, albeit losing Daboll has seemingly hurt him.

But I don't know if the "dual threat" QB will ultimately overtake the league or not, not at the speed the game is played. Although, given that the college world is leaning more and more that way, that's also who they'll have coming in to replenish the ranks.

 

[patfanken]

There will be no Idle thoughts tomorrow. Too late to do it now and I'm playing poker all day tomorrow.

This is ANOTHER hard one to digest. A number of things you can complain about, but I don't what you expect when your are playing 2 guys at OT who have had very little practise with the team. 2 guys at OG who haven't seem live snaps the entire preseason, let alone game day speed. It was Strange who never saw the blitzer and was helping Andrews who needed no help. It was one guy playing full speed and another who wasn't close. They (Owenu and Strange) get a bit better as the game went on, but NEITHER were close to what we would have expected from the 2 of them with a full preseason.

Of course it was Mac who was responsible for the 150 odd yds Miami got on the ground.

The Pats did a nice job on Hill who had only 40 yds and not a horrible job on Waddle who had 80.

Gonzales is going to be a star.

This was a bad game to be down to your 5th and 6th CB's, But 250 passing yds, when taken into context wasn't a horrible outcome,

Still wondering if the new configuration of Gillette adds to the noise level?

When on the field Parker is a very effective WR

Didn't see any RPO's tonight. I would have liked to see more.

There was some stuff that the refs called or didn't call that I didn't like, but the call on Mapu was the right one, though it wasn't his fault. It was just wildly unlucky. Mapu was CLEARLY just playing through. He had no way to know that Waddle's head was going to wind up there. But the rule says it doesn't matter. The defender has full liability regardless if its completely unintentional and there was no way to avoid it.

I think the Pats CAN win 5 of their next 6 games. They just have to flip a few stats, STARTING with winning the TO battle and getting better on the OL.

 

[Ian]

They might have gone after Watson though for a temporary fix

Not at what Cleveland paid him. And not with what he was dealing with.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Onwenu looked overweight and out of shape. He was pulled in the second half for Mafi. I hope he wasn’t hurt.

I suspect he just ran out of gas.

Neither Onwenu nor Strange looked to be ready to go. But we had no choice.

Isaiah Wynn played well for them. Clearly better than Strange at LG. He’s a guy who we didn’t have the luxury of releasing.

Anderson was beaten like a drum all night. By a backup.

Loni Anderson would have blocked better

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Not at what Cleveland paid him. And not with what he was dealing with.

you got a point

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

That's not the case. Mahomes is the only person that's worked out for in recent years with any long-term success. And he's the exception.

Asking a player to run around for 60 minutes and overcome bad protection or plays breaking down isn't sustainable. Unless you're a unicorn, which he is. Josh Allen is already having to evolve away from that, for the same reason, albeit losing Daboll has seemingly hurt him.

But I don't know if the "dual threat" QB will ultimately overtake the league or not, not at the speed the game is played. Although, given that the college world is leaning more and more that way, that's also who they'll have coming in to replenish the ranks.

I think mobility is proving to be valuable but a real dual threat rushing QB remains mostly a college football thing.

 

[Schmo]

So, you agree that the team needs a new GM?

I don’t know that BB is willing to “give up” that power.

Yup

 

[FCB02062]

lost the turnover battle twice, scored 20 or less twice, average 3 ypc or less twice, 4.9 ypa in two games, through 2 games the longest play from a WR is 23 yards ...this is not a recipe for success...

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Yup

Belichick's way too arrogant to give up power to anyone - we all know that - Parcells famous quote about cooking and shopping for the groceries is kind of Bill's sentiments too

 

[Boomer B]

A lot of things many of us talked about is now kicking the team right in the ass:

- lack of skill on O. We got a bunch of #3’s, and no one close to a #1 WR. Parker gets 0 separation. Juju is a down grade from Jacobi, who himself was mediocre. Bourne is decent.

- the o-line is hot garbage with 0 depth. We didn’t address the tackle position and we all knew it needed addressing.

How do we really know what we have in Mac? The guy has been given a garbage line and one of the worst receiving cores in the league to work with. This team is completely mediocre.

 

[Ian]

It’s more like showing respect to the guy who was more responsible for our success. You don’t show him the door in favor of a guy who was 5-13 before the savior showed up. But I digress.

I hear you, and I've said it previously I would have ridden him until the wheels came off. But with hindsight now being a thing, that was just three more seasons. And it proved better for him that he left because that one win in Tampa completely changed the conversation for him, and as a fan of the guy, I'm glad. Seven rings and one with a different franchise shut all of that, "Well, you can make the argument Manning/Mahomes/Rodgers is/was better ... " completely down. I don't know if I could still listen to that.

 

[Schmo]

Correct, most of the QBs you listed pose a serious threat to opposing teams defenses and they have to game plan around their skills. I don’t think they do much for planning against Mac because he doesn’t have the arm that some of those guys have and doesn’t have the versatility either.

Those teams had some bad o-lines too but their QBs made it work. With Mac, if the o-line struggles then it’s game over because he doesn’t have the legs or the ability to avoid sacks. He needs that perfect pocket.

Game has evolved and you need to become a dual threat.

His pocket maneuvering is actually pretty impressive.

Did you see him "overthrow" the ball to Bourne that would have been a TD if he had Tyreek Hill?

His one interception was a ball to his 50-50 receiver in Parker, that wasn't contested.

 

[State]

100% agree. Dante was an absolutely incredible coach, essentially the "Tom Brady" of his craft, and I also don't think that's an exaggeration.

Which is why one of his vetted players who we mistakenly put on the we right side last season and mistakenly released this season ended up playing so well.

Are you surprised by Wynn’s performance? He was better than _any_ of our five offensive linemen.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Belichick's way too arrogant to give up power to anyone - we all know that - Parcells famous quote about cooking and shopping for the groceries is kind of Bill's sentiments too

Parcels left Dallas after 2006 because Jerry Jones didn’t like being upstaged by Parcells and wanted to regain control of the team. That was a massive mistake as they would’ve easily made it back to the Super Bowl on a collision course with BB in 2007. The Romo/Witten vacation and slip up against the Giants doesn’t happen.

Sponsors heads would’ve exploited paying for ads for that game.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

lost the turnover battle twice, scored 20 or less twice, average 3 ypc or less twice, 4.9 ypa in two games, through 2 games the longest play from a WR is 23 yards ...this is not a recipe for success...

Neither is 6 sacks allowed in 2 games which at this continuance would be top 5 sacks allowed of all time with 51 - 76 being the record in 1 year

 

[PATS16N0]

We could have Marvin Harrison Jr. available to be drafted, and Belichick would just trade down for a backup left guard.

A RUTGERS backup left guard*