PostGame Thread 2023 OFFICIAL Week 18 PostGame Thread: Patriots Lose to Jets 17-3

[palialka]

OK, as long as we start the entire process over -- with no promise of getting anywhere after another 3 years.

There hasn’t been a process, at least not on offense.

Hopefully we’ll get new leadership on board and actually get a process going. That will be a good start…

 

[upstater1]

There hasn’t been a process, at least not on offense.

Hopefully we’ll get new leadership on board and actually get a process going. That will be a good start…

There has been one.

The QB was awful

This happens a lot.

Only 6 of the 16 1st round QBs of the last 8 years pan out.

It's not uncommon.

If you dont have a good QB you struggle.

 

[palialka]

There has been one.

The QB was awful

This happens a lot.

Only 6 of the 16 1st round QBs of the last 8 years pan out.

It's not uncommon.

If you dont have a good QB you struggle.

Well we can both agree that Mac was awful

The rest…we’re gonna have to agree to disagree.

Here’s hoping that the draft is a success and we spend our cap money wisely

 

[lancerman]

Now I understand the where the rabid anti-Jones sentiment came from. Some fans really think this is an awesome team and Jones was the only one holding them back from a deep playoff run lololololololol

Homer delusion at its finest.

There's a 100% a contingent of this fanbase that would rather ignore the reality of just how screwed this team is talent wise and want to pretend it's a 1 player fix because it's way more conveniant than accepting how far behind we are. The ****ing Jets had Zach Wilson and Trevor Sieman and still won 7 games.

 

[lancerman]

So many people here see themselves as superior talent evaluators to BB,

And they project resentment.

If is quite tedious.

Tbf it hasn't been that hard. If you just took the conventional wisdom around the league, you'd have outdone Bill as a talent evaluatuor the last 5-7 years. That's part of the problem. It would be a completely different conversation if he was going after best available and what the traditional take was. When you "zig when everyone else zags" and the people zagging are getting it right, you open yourself up to critcism.

League wide the Patriots lack of talent is an open secret. Other teams don't even bother to hide how little they fear or respect the talent here when they play us.

People need to get over that in sports you get critcized when you get bad results. The Patriots finished 3rd to last this year.

 

[venecol]

Are you stupid? There is no other thing than to root for the team no matter who runs it. Can you run it better? Yes? Than do it. No? Than shut the **** up. You're a ****ing troll. There are tons of you bad mouthing this team when all of your heart and desires should be on rooting for success. Yet it's **** BB **** Kraft, **** Foxboro. Go **** yourself and all your friends too.

You seem to be very emotional about a football team. Get a hold of yourself Francis.

 

[Uptown]

 

[RobertWeathers]

Are you taking into account what the defense did, especially against far better QBs than the Pats had?

That entire draft of QBs sucked. All the way up to Lawrence. He choked today, their one chance to get in. Who should he have drafted?

Yes I did.

 

[KCSVEN]

I heard that about Darnold, Murray, and Lawrence.

Lawrence, yes, the other 2 no. Elway, Luck, Manning, Lawrence are top 4 by scouts going into the draft historically. Williams is being ranked equal with Lawrence.
Bears have scouts, scouts rank Williams at that level.
It helps that Fields is not good and they have no money committed to him.
Fields is not a good QB and Williams is to scouts a once in a decade prospect. Gee, I wonder what Chicago will do LOL!
Unless he comes to the interview stoned and measures 5 foot 9 the Bears are taking him and trading Fields. I hope Washington falls in love with Daniels, might happens especially if Lamar Jackson wins the Super Bowl. Then Maye is there at 3 and he is the second-best prospect at QB.

 

[RobertWeathers]

By no means did I ever say qb was the one and only problem. But in spite of all other weaknesses and with all other strengths in those 7 games we win if the qb doesn’t flat out stink.

Pittsburgh turned the ball over 16 times. We turned it over 29.

Pittsburgh had 7 games with zero turnovers
We had 1 game with zero turnovers

You pretty much just nailed the difference between the 2 teams and virtually everyone of the 7 I mentioned were lost due to turnovers by the QB.


Pittsburgh QBs have thrown 9 ints all year, and 5 were by trubisky, and they went 0-2 in his starts. Patriot QBs have thrown 21. The difference between Pitt at 10-7 and the Patriots at 4-13 is they had someone better than trubisky and we didn’t.

If they had to play trubisky all year their astute fans would be saying the same thing about their 4 win season as I am saying about ours now.

Howell threw 21 picks this year. The Coms suck on all levels. They beat us.

Josh Allen threw 18 picks this year and the team turned it over 28 times One more than we did. The Bills finished 11-6 and #2 seed.

Are the Jills and Pats at the same talent level across the roster? They only won one more game than the Squealers?

 

[Ring 6]

Howell threw 21 picks this year. The Coms suck on all levels. They beat us.

Josh Allen threw 18 picks this year and the team turned it over 28 times One more than we did. The Bills finished 11-6 and #2 seed.

Are the Jills and Pats at the same talent level across the roster? They only won one more game than the Squealers?

You are grasping at straws now. Why not finish the Steelers example you brought up rather than getting vague?

If 10 or Zappe played like Allen in those 7 games, we were 11-6 too.

I am being specific you are purposely making it vague.

I am pointing out losses that are only losses with awful qb play, and you are answering with no I think they are bad.

If you don’t really want to have the discussion you should just stop responding.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You are grasping at straws now. Why not finish the Steelers example you brought up rather than getting vague?

If 10 or Zappe played like Allen in those 7 games, we were 11-6 too.

I am being specific you are purposely making it vague.

I am pointing out losses that are only losses with awful qb play, and you are answering with no I think they are bad.

If you don’t really want to have the discussion you should just stop responding.

No I am saying replacing the QB is not the answer to 7 more wins. How can you not see that.

If you don’t really want to have the discussion you should just stop responding.

You are on record as saying if we had an average/mediocre QB we would win 7 more games. What are you saying then?

You are wrong.

 

[Ring 6]

No I am saying replacing the QB is not the answer to 7 more wins. How can you not see that.

If you don’t really want to have the discussion you should just stop responding.

You are on record as saying if we had an average/mediocre QB we would win 7 more games. What are you saying then?

You are wrong.

Which of those 7 games do we not win with average qb play? In all 7 of those games, with everything the other 52 players did, we almost won, despite putrid QB play. Non-putrid QB play would have resulted in wins.

I am on record saying we win those 7 games if the qb play was better, and average would have easily been enough.

So let’s address that. Which of those 7 games is not a win if the qb did his job at a mediocre to average nfl qb level.

We agree the QBs sucked. We should agree that sucky qb play causes you to lose games you would have won without sucky qb play. I identified 7, and I think it’s not even debatable. Are you saying qb play does t matter?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Which of those 7 games do we not win with average qb play? In all 7 of those games, with everything the other 52 players did, we almost won, despite putrid QB play. Non-putrid QB play would have resulted in wins.

I am on record saying we win those 7 games if the qb play was better, and average would have easily been enough.

So let’s address that. Which of those 7 games is not a win if the qb did his job at a mediocre to average nfl qb level.

We agree the QBs sucked. We should agree that sucky qb play causes you to lose games you would have won without sucky qb play. I identified 7, and I think it’s not even debatable. Are you saying qb play does t matter?

Your "argument" is based on every player doing the exact same thing and by adding the most important player on the field will create victories. C'mon man.....

In all 7 of those games, with everything the other 52 players did

Really?

Are you saying the 2024 NEP are as good as the 11-6 Bills if only we had an average QB? Are you saying the 52 players on the NEP are just as good as the Bills' players?

 

[sb1]

And if Jordan Richards was like Ed Reed we would have shut the Eagles out in the Super Bowl! So close…

 

[50-yard-line]

That’s the biggest problem though, we haven’t really been rebuilding. We’ve just been putting bandaids on top of wounds.

What has the plan been? It’s just been “fly by the seat of your pants”.

I’m under no illusion that we’re gonna be contenders next season like some are here. We can definitely improve; we already have the defense in place. A rebuild, down correctly with a long term plan in mind, is going to take 2-3 years.

It’ll be an interesting off season, let’s see what happens…

Four of the 6 top OL are on rookie deals (one coming off, who should be retained).

Barmore and White are on rookie deals on the DL. Uche and Jennings (keep him) just coming off.

The secondary has several promising rookie-deal players, yes?

That’s a rebuild. They’re missing the skill positions on offense. They need a top WR, need to retain or replace their TEs, need to rework/retain RBs, and need a QB.

They’re not as far away as you think.

 

[50-yard-line]

2023: It's all the QB's fault that we lost 13 games. Singlehandedly held us back from being great.

2021: It wasn't all Brady in NE and he didn't win that Tampa Super Bowl by himself! Football is a team sport.

The concept of needing both is too complex for you, I see.

 

[sb1]

The concept of needing both is too complex for you, I see.

No I’m pointing out that some are arguing against their own logic when it doesn’t suit them. Weird.

 

[Ring 6]

Your "argument" is based on every player doing the exact same thing and by adding the most important player on the field will create victories. C'mon man.....


Really?

Are you saying the 2024 NEP are as good as the 11-6 Bills if only we had an average QB? Are you saying the 52 players on the NEP are just as good as the Bills' players?

No, my argument is everyone played how they played and the qb f-ed it up, and had he been minimally competent he wouldn’t have.

I am saying if the patriots got barely competant qb okay they would have won as many games as the bills, and probably swept them.
I’m saying those other 52 players played at a level in their games that if they had the same qb play as the bills they would have the same or better record. I say that based upon the actual games in the field, but a cryptic “who do you think is better”.

 

[Ring 6]

No I’m pointing out that some are arguing against their own logic when it doesn’t suit them. Weird.

There is no logical inconsistency. The qb is not the whole team. A qb doesn’t win by himself.
A qb plays a role in winning. When you qb sucks your record will be worse than if he didn’t suck.